Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Obelisk Kai]

I would be content if Blizzard released a toy with a low cooldown+longer lasting effect that made you look like a High Elf, honestly. I just want it for RP purposes. They could even have it break off in combat, tbh.

It would be a great way to satisfy both sides without muddling the factions+reskinning another race, and giving roleplayers (the majority of people who want high elves) what they want.

Whilst I would doubt it would satisfy most of the pro High Elf community, such a toy wouldn't cause a problem.

But the reason it wouldn't cause a problem is precisely why I think most people who are pro High Elf wouldn't accept it, it wouldn't be real.

[Starla]

Of fucking course they are showing as npcs, how else should they show up? Also good to hear, that there was no purging of dalaran, and no high elf was killing blood elves.





God you are annoying, shut the hell up and stop fabricating things to push your agenda. People like you are the worst. You must be mentally ill, if you are frustrated by high elf posters and their discord, and yet you keep stalking them and keep moaning about them.

Does bullying make you feel better about yourself?

[Cien]

The High Elf's "story" it's Vereesa's story, and Vereesa's own story is itself fairly underwhelming.

not at all, cant be bothered to list it all off but there's the helves in outland in terokkar that form part of alleria's story, alleria herself, the quel'delar quest line, ZA opening to name a few, there's obviously more since tbc it isn't hard to find, the story is there, whether *you* perceive it as underwhelming is a different matter, the fact that all the stories are present, is evident

[Gungnir]

382 pages dedicated to what's essentially a reskin.
I guess I'll never understand certain parts of the playerbase, but whatever floats your boat I suppose.

[Strippling]

I would be content if Blizzard released a toy with a low cooldown+longer lasting effect that made you look like a High Elf, honestly. I just want it for RP purposes. They could even have it break off in combat, tbh.

It would be a great way to satisfy both sides without muddling the factions+reskinning another race, and giving roleplayers (the majority of people who want high elves) what they want.

This is the best idea I've seen presented so far.

Asking for high elfs as a playable race is a bit much though:

A) Wasted AR slot for Alliance (that'd be two thallasian AR for Alliance...how boring). I'm sure more Alliance would be upset than happy if another elf (same looking as VE bar skin colour) was added as an AR

B) Literally a copy of BE. If high elfs were to be considered then they should not use the BE model, use the NE model/animations/stances (just shrink the model size). If people aren't happy with this, then it seems that they purely want HE for aethestics and not lore (like they claim). If you want the aethestic, the horde is waiting for you. If horde want to play dwarfs, the alliance are waiting for them...

C) I feel HE would detract from VE and BE story arcs. VE focusing on shadow and BE focusing on light (golden eyes, etc..) I just don't see where HE fit. The WoW story seems to be headed in a light vs void story arc so where do arcane and outdated HE fit? No where really... without detracting from VE and BE. Makes more sense to keep them as NPCs and add minor HE stories here or there (like they currently do). Further to this, BE are the continuement of the HE story (as a whole). The BE racial armor scenario emphasizes this even more. To me, HE are minority off shoot of BE and as such will and should always have minor story involvement. The majority of thallasian elf story should revolve around BE and VE.

D) On the official forums I see people really trying to push the whole shaman/druid high elf. High elfs as a request is already a NO from Blizz and most of the community. Then also asking for druids or shamans is even more ludicrous and suggests that people just don't care about the lore (despite claiming they do) and purely just want the best of the best despite the impact it might have on others. Asking for HE is asking for a race that detracts from the Horde. Asking for HE druids imo detracts from the NE, who are strongly defined by their druidic culture... plus HE haven't really ever been a druidic people. Asking for HE shaman is just wtf?? HE are "upper class" by nature.. stuck up, proud. Not tribalistic. So HE shaman makes no sense at all. I'd even go as far to say that HE paladins are a big ask. There are a few rare cases of HE paladins (but literally like 3 or 4 cases), most HE paladins ended up becoming blood knights who are all BE now. The majority of HE who remained allied to the alliance are those who were in dalaran for a long time (ie. mostly mages).

The above are just some concerns. A toy that gives you a HE appearance to me seems like a fair compromise.. IMO.

[Andromedes]

Does bullying make you feel better about yourself?

You are the one, who is bullying, stalking and fabricating things. Dont act like a victim here. That question should be aimed to you, not to me.

C) I feel HE would detract from VE and BE story arcs. VE focusing on shadow and BE focusing on light (golden eyes, etc..) I just don't see where HE fit. The WoW story seems to be headed in a light vs void story arc so where do arcane and outdated HE fit? No where really... without detracting from VE and BE. Makes more sense to keep them as NPCs and add minor HE stories here or there (like they currently do). Further to this, BE are the continuement of the HE story (as a whole). The BE racial armor scenario emphasizes this even more. To me, HE are minority off shoot of BE and as such will and should always have minor story involvement. The majority of thallasian elf story should revolve around BE and VE.

Why doest that matter, who uses what power? Why is political war HE vs BE not good enough, but primordial force war Void vs Light good enough? Warcraft (atleast Horde vs Alliance) is about war between political factions, not about who fights with what power..

[Obelisk Kai]

Maybe so.

I think I've come to understand that the main reason why this topic ends up with so much anger is that they're asking for another Blood Elf look. which is Horde. The Alliance already have Void Elves which look exactly like Blood elves, certainly not much difference. It's like the people asking for playable High Elves on Alliance have no concern or dismiss our concerns on Horde side. Feels like their desires are all that matters and they just dont' care that it does make a difference to a lot of people. They can say it shouldn't bother anyone or it doesn't effect anyone, but the reality is, it does.

Well let's try and be even handed.

You are correct in that why it generates so much passion among dedicated Horde players is that what the pro High Elf side is asking for is a duplicate of a Horde race.
And I agree our concerns are routinely brushed aside, this is also true. The usual refrain back at us is 'you wouldn't have to play it, it doesn't affect you and it would make us happy' which on the face of it is a powerful argument.

Now there is a response to that, and that response is made regularly on this forum and all the other forums where this debate rages, but a lot of pro High Elfers seemingly don't assimilate the counterpoint, and insist our opposition is selfish or based on a poor understanding of the lore (with the implicit subtext that the pro High Elf community has a better grasp of the lore).

Now, why I believe it matters to the pro High Elf players is that they take the longest possible view of the game. Some of them actually played Warcraft 2 back in the day. And yes, in that game the Alliance of Lordaeron consisted of Humans, High Elves, Dwarves and Gnomes. And if you follow that string through every game you see High Elves in Warcraft 3, you see High Elves in classic WoW, in TBC, in WOTLK, in Cataclysm, in MOP, in Legion and now in BFA. So in all fairness, there is that Alliance presence they argue exists. Anyone can see it.

The complication comes from seeing that presence in isolation from everything else, that just because you see some High Elves it follows that they are a major part of the Alliance or deserving to be playable. Now that I have expressed what I believe is the pro High Elf point of view, I can restate the anti point of view.

Firstly our opposition is not based on a desire to make the lives of the pro High Elf community miserable. That isn't the point. It is based on two pillars. The integrity of the Horde and the integrity of the Blood Elf race.

To the first point, each faction consists of multiple visually distinct races that collectively form our team. We know each other by sight, by the cultural doodads such as mounts, buildings and motifs associated with each race and by the culture and theme we bring to our faction. The Horde is not just an expression of Orcish dominance with friends, nor an army led by Undead...and the Alliance is the same, it's own tapestry. It is a tapestry consisting of multiple threads woven together into a whole. Sometimes, the contrasting colours of the tapestry clash, as members of a faction bicker with each other or disagree, but ultimately we are one. And what makes the factions contrast with each other is the vivid contrast between the constituent parts. Sure there are similarities, but elements are stronger in one that are barely present in another. It is our differences that make our respective factions far more interesting though, and the unique status of each race as being locked to that faction enhances that sense of cohesion. It's why I believe the Pandaren as neutral failed, they don't stand out even if the race itself succeeded. Playable High Elves would render a vibrant part of the Horde de facto neutral, and neuter their unique contribution to what makes up the Horde because it would be available to the Alliance.

To the second point, what every other race in the game has the right to do is define themselves. To say who they are, what they stand for and what they want. Nobody can redefine what they are. And we know what the Blood Elves are. They are the High Elves who changed their name, left the Alliance and joined the Horde. Who control the lands of Quel'thalas, who control the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, Magisters, the Farstriders that the Silver Covenant apes and the Blood Knights. In every way, the Blood Elves are the High Elves of the Warcraft universe, as every Blizzard statement from Chris Metzen to Ion Hazzikostas has affirmed. And those Alliance High Elves share everything with the Blood Elves. Culture. Theme. Building style. Mounts. Everything except political allegiance.
Playable Alliance High Elves would immediately begin to define themselves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft Universe, it's inevitable. And that would hollow out the experience of those currently playing Blood Elves who wouldn't be able to define themselves as what they are, the High Elves.

So, while I understand where the pro High Elf community is coming from, I utterly disagree they should succeed in their goals. I believe Blizzard concurs with my analysis, as not only did Ion rule out playable High Elves on the grounds of blurring faction identity (the integrity of the Horde) but he also defined Void Elves as a type of Blood Elf that can do it's own thing. Which it can, every objection to playable High Elves I have is moot in regards to Void Elves. They are former Blood/High Elves, but drained of everything that made them a Blood/High Elf. So while they are former Blood/High Elves, they don't step on Blood Elf toes. They work because they respect the integrity of the Horde and the Blood Elves, who are free to continue defining themselves as High Elves, adjectives be damned.

[Deleted]

Maybe so.

I think I've come to understand that the main reason why this topic ends up with so much anger is that they're asking for another Blood Elf look. which is Horde. The Alliance already have Void Elves which look exactly like Blood elves, certainly not much difference. It's like the people asking for playable High Elves on Alliance have no concern or dismiss our concerns on Horde side. Feels like their desires are all that matters and they just dont' care that it does make a difference to a lot of people. They can say it shouldn't bother anyone or it doesn't effect anyone, but the reality is, it does.

You are adorable. But no, you are wrong, as you would have known if you checked.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Well let's try and be even handed.

You are correct in that why it generates so much passion among dedicated Horde players is that what the pro High Elf side is asking for is a duplicate of a Horde race.
And I agree our concerns are routinely brushed aside, this is also true. The usual refrain back at us is 'you wouldn't have to play it, it doesn't affect you and it would make us happy' which on the face of it is a powerful argument.

Now there is a response to that, and that response is made regularly on this forum and all the other forums where this debate rages, but a lot of pro High Elfers seemingly don't assimilate the counterpoint, and insist our opposition is selfish or based on a poor understanding of the lore (with the implicit subtext that the pro High Elf community has a better grasp of the lore).

Now, why I believe it matters to the pro High Elf players is that they take the longest possible view of the game. Some of them actually played Warcraft 2 back in the day. And yes, in that game the Alliance of Lordaeron consisted of Humans, High Elves, Dwarves and Gnomes. And if you follow that string through every game you see High Elves in Warcraft 3, you see High Elves in classic WoW, in TBC, in WOTLK, in Cataclysm, in MOP, in Legion and now in BFA. So in all fairness, there is that Alliance presence they argue exists. Anyone can see it.

The complication comes from seeing that presence in isolation from everything else, that just because you see some High Elves it follows that they are a major part of the Alliance or deserving to be playable. Now that I have expressed what I believe is the pro High Elf point of view, I can restate the anti point of view.

Firstly our opposition is not based on a desire to make the lives of the pro High Elf community miserable. That isn't the point. It is based on two pillars. The integrity of the Horde and the integrity of the Blood Elf race.

To the first point, each faction consists of multiple visually distinct races that collectively form our team. We know each other by sight, by the cultural doodads such as mounts, buildings and motifs associated with each race and by the culture and theme we bring to our faction. The Horde is not just an expression of Orcish dominance with friends, nor an army led by Undead...and the Alliance is the same, it's own tapestry. It is a tapestry consisting of multiple threads woven together into a whole. Sometimes, the contrasting colours of the tapestry clash, as members of a faction bicker with each other or disagree, but ultimately we are one. And what makes the factions contrast with each other is the vivid contrast between the constituent parts. Sure there are similarities, but elements are stronger in one that are barely present in another. It is our differences that make our respective factions far more interesting though, and the unique status of each race as being locked to that faction enhances that sense of cohesion. It's why I believe the Pandaren as neutral failed, they don't stand out even if the race itself succeeded. Playable High Elves would render a vibrant part of the Horde de facto neutral, and neuter their unique contribution to what makes up the Horde because it would be available to the Alliance.

To the second point, what every other race in the game has the right to do is define themselves. To say who they are, what they stand for and what they want. Nobody can redefine what they are. And we know what the Blood Elves are. They are the High Elves who changed their name, left the Alliance and joined the Horde. Who control the lands of Quel'thalas, who control the city of Silvermoon, the Sunwell, Magisters, the Farstriders that the Silver Covenant apes and the Blood Knights. In every way, the Blood Elves are the High Elves of the Warcraft universe, as every Blizzard statement from Chris Metzen to Ion Hazzikostas has affirmed. And those Alliance High Elves share everything with the Blood Elves. Culture. Theme. Building style. Mounts. Everything except political allegiance.
Playable Alliance High Elves would immediately begin to define themselves as the true High Elves of the Warcraft Universe, it's inevitable. And that would hollow out the experience of those currently playing Blood Elves who wouldn't be able to define themselves as what they are, the High Elves.

So, while I understand where the pro High Elf community is coming from, I utterly disagree they should succeed in their goals. I believe Blizzard concurs with my analysis, as not only did Ion rule out playable High Elves on the grounds of blurring faction identity (the integrity of the Horde) but he also defined Void Elves as a type of Blood Elf that can do it's own thing. Which it can, every objection to playable High Elves I have is moot in regards to Void Elves. They are former Blood/High Elves, but drained of everything that made them a Blood/High Elf. So while they are former Blood/High Elves, they don't step on Blood Elf toes. They work because they respect the integrity of the Horde and the Blood Elves, who are free to continue defining themselves as High Elves, adjectives be damned.

To disregard the political difference and all the change that such alignment leads to is very dismissive. The fact that High Elves have chosen to be allied to the alliance changes everything about them, each day more. A political difference that leads to demographic, geographical and environmental difference is not something that can be mere handwaved.

High Elves are ex-pats, their own cultural identity changing by living hosted my another culture, their own bloodline being called into question by their peers. There is something very purposefully disingenuous at calling the High Elves thematically unrecognizable from Blood Elves when everything about their context is different, with both cultural and biological changes already present in their own identity.

And to make this point, when Void Elves, who culturally are Blood Elves, who were BE like 8 months ago, whose difference is so far patently aesthetic and philosophical, weakens the previous point.

Whether Alliance High Elves start to define themselves as the "true" high elves is moot. Who are the true heirs of the Kaldorei legacy? Nightborne or Night Elves? The lore already has made the idea of heritage text with them, the notion such thematic is also brought up by HE/BE doesn't matter. Specially when HE wouldn't be on the right given they are a splinter culture faction who has been heavily influenced by human culture can't be the truest expression of Thalassian Culture. Or even that Silver Covenant HE could be typified as being noticeably hybridized with humans, to the point that part of their loyalty is explicitly due to said fact (ie, humans are as much as part of their family as other elves)

I understand wanting to support a pro BE stance is, but Silver Covenant High Elves have a lot more going on in relation to their place as members of the alliance to what they "take away" from Blood Elves. But as long as BE stances qualify everything that the SCHE could be as taking away from BE lore, there's not much room for an unbiased conversation.

[Lumineus]

creative void elf transmogs

No Paladin, no sale.

[Starla]

You are adorable. But no, you are wrong, as you would have known if you checked.

There are more than enough High Elf supporters now who want the Thalassian model. Just read the latest from Alurna on the WoW general discussion forum.Or are you referring to something else?

[Deleted]

There are more than enough High Elf supporters now who want the Thalassian model. Just read the latest from Alurna on the WoW general discussion forum.Or are you referring to something else?

People on the WoW general forums and here were always open to a different model, there were even concepts created by someone based on Night Elf models, like Nozdormu is depicted, to satisfy people like you. So your previous statement is just wrong. But feel free to be bothered anyway though.

[Strippling]

Why doest that matter, who uses what power? Why is political war HE vs BE not good enough, but primordial force war Void vs Light good enough? Warcraft (atleast Horde vs Alliance) is about war between political factions, not about who fights with what power..

Regardless of whether the story focuses on politics or primordial force, the case on point is that adding HE would detract from BE and VE development... both who are currently playable. The main high elf story continued through the BE and now also through VE. The small group of elfs who decided not to join their kin (ie alliance high elf) but rather remain in the alliance should be relegated minor story arcs here or there, such as they currently receive being NPCs. Why put so much time and effort into a group of elfs who are just a small offshoot from the main thallasian elf societ (ie blood elf)? For lore purposes? If so, then I don't see why HE remaining NPCs would be an issue, because they could certainly add small story developments here and there to an NPC race. If not for lore purposes then I assume for the aesthetics? If so, gtfo.... you're literally asking for a Horde model and then sit there bewildered as to why people are so against the idea. Don't see Horde asking for dwarfs, worgen, etc...

Alterac humans literally sided with the orcs during the second war... given that affiliation then I suppose a case could be made for playable humans on the Horde (humans being the main race choice in the Alliance). But don't worry, we'll ask Blizz to add cool hair styles, some tattoos and they'll be totally different. But yea, you don't see spam threads of people asking for Horde humans... because it just plain and simply would blur faction lines and intrude on Alliance identity.

[FlubberPuddy]

Regardless of whether the story focuses on politics or primordial force, the case on point is that adding HE would detract from BE and VE development... both who are currently playable. The main high elf story continued through the BE and now also through VE. The small group of elfs who decided not to join their kin (ie alliance high elf) but rather remain in the alliance should be relegated minor story arcs here or there, such as they currently receive being NPCs. Why put so much time and effort into a group of elfs who are just a small offshoot from the main thallasian elf societ (ie blood elf)? For lore purposes? If so, then I don't see why HE remaining NPCs would be an issue, because they could certainly add small story developments here and there to an NPC race. If not for lore purposes then I assume for the aesthetics? If so, gtfo.... you're literally asking for a Horde model and then sit there bewildered as to why people are so against the idea. Don't see Horde asking for dwarfs, worgen, etc...

How would it detract? Are LFD detracting from regular Draenei? Are Dark Iron detracting from Bronzebeards? Are the Nightborne detracting from the Night Elves?

Every Allied Race has a different story they explore which isn't stomping over the other existing races that are already playable. The fact that you pointed out the different branches of story that BE took vs VE and that HE took just shows they wouldn't impede each other's storylines.

This is like saying because Pandas got lore in Mists it detracted from Gnome story development, that's utterly dumb. Panda lore wouldn't take away from Gnome lore, it just halts Gnome lore, doesn't mean that Blizzard wasn't ever going to continue their story like we're seeing now in BFA.

Not only that, but you're taking Allied Races and trying to compare them to a Main Race. That's silly too, we already learn the majority of lore for an Allied Race once we recruit them, that is the entire point and requirement of why they become our Allies.

What's funny is the actual only exception to this is Void Elves which had nothing at all to do with anything Alliance until their recruitment, and even afterwards they've barely got much development in BFA. If anything, VE sure deserve to get more development because they're the Allied Race that actually has jack in the story/development department.

You think that Zandalari, or KulTiras, or Mag'har or Dark Iron are going to continue getting substantial story treatment on the level that Humans/Orcs/Dwarves/Blood Elves/Forsaken/Night Elves do? That's absurd level thinking.

Also aesthetics reasons are just as important as story. Both go hand in hand on why Allied Races are even a thing, this is the silliest stuff I've ever read.

Alterac humans literally sided with the orcs during the second war... given that affiliation then I suppose a case could be made for playable humans on the Horde (humans being the main race choice in the Alliance). But don't worry, we'll ask Blizz to add cool hair styles, some tattoos and they'll be totally different. But yea, you don't see spam threads of people asking for Horde humans... because it just plain and simply would blur faction lines and intrude on Alliance identity.

Here ya go dude: https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...s_so/?sort=top

Not half a year gone by we had actual people asking for Alterac Humans, and look at the top comments. Everyone's pretty much in agreement that it'd be fine/agree with it happening.

[Darthaes]

The very idea of the Highelven were a split of the Highborne from the Nightelves, as the Nightelves focused on nature and the Highborne on magic.

The High elven are the elves based on magical capability. The Nightelf concept are elves based on the wilds and the hunts. You're taking the nightelf concept and trying to toss it onto the Highelven. Yes Farstriders exist, but even -they- were immersed in magical capability.

This madness has gone on far too long. These 'fans' that refuse to see the Bloodelves as the continuance of the Highelven story (as well as the Silver Covenant as part of the Bloodelf story) has gone to worrisome levels.

Think of new races, new flavors for WoW. Stop trying to push a concept that would further dilute it.

[melzas]

The very idea of the Highelven were a split of the Highborne from the Nightelves, as the Nightelves focused on nature and the Highborne on magic.

The High elven are the elves based on magical capability. The Nightelf concept are elves based on the wilds and the hunts. You're taking the nightelf concept and trying to toss it onto the Highelven. Yes Farstriders exist, but even -they- were immersed in magical capability.

This madness has gone on far too long. These 'fans' that refuse to see the Bloodelves as the continuance of the Highelven story (as well as the Silver Covenant as part of the Bloodelf story) has gone to worrisome levels.

Think of new races, new flavors for WoW. Stop trying to push a concept that would further dilute it.

What? Think of new races? The very concept of allied races is to add subraces, pretty much every allied race is a minor subfaction of corresponding pc race. High Elves fit like a glove to this philosophy - they are a minor subfaction of blood elves, basically those thalassian elves who never left the alliance.

[Wyrt]

What? Think of new races? The very concept of allied races is to add subraces, pretty much every allied race is a minor subfaction of corresponding pc race. High Elves fit like a glove to this philosophy - they are a minor subfaction of blood elves, basically those thalassian elves who never left the alliance.

Except Allied Races are ones that are physically different from the main race counterpart.

And eye color change is not significant enough difference as has already been proven by both yellow eyed blood elves and black eyed night elves.

[Andromedes]

This madness has gone on far too long. These 'fans' that refuse to see the Bloodelves as the continuance of the Highelven story (as well as the Silver Covenant as part of the Bloodelf story) has gone to worrisome levels.

Yeah sure, everything is part of blood elf story. I guess orcs are just part of human story and forsaken are just part of lich king story.

[melzas]

Except Allied Races are ones that are physically different from the main race counterpart.

And eye color change is not significant enough difference as has already been proven by both yellow eyed blood elves and black eyed night elves.

Isn't eye color exactly the difference of LF dreanei vs regular ones? They also have different haircuts and some tatoos, but high elves could have that too.

[Deleted]

The very idea of the Highelven were a split of the Highborne from the Nightelves, as the Nightelves focused on nature and the Highborne on magic.

The High elven are the elves based on magical capability. The Nightelf concept are elves based on the wilds and the hunts. You're taking the nightelf concept and trying to toss it onto the Highelven. Yes Farstriders exist, but even -they- were immersed in magical capability.

This madness has gone on far too long. These 'fans' that refuse to see the Bloodelves as the continuance of the Highelven story (as well as the Silver Covenant as part of the Bloodelf story) has gone to worrisome levels.

Think of new races, new flavors for WoW. Stop trying to push a concept that would further dilute it.

you seems quite objective with that picture of yours.