1. #10581
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what? So do Highmountain tauren and tauren. Nightborne and night elf. Zandalari trolls and trolls. Etc, etc.


    So you're focusing on the easiest, simplest "issue"? See the Dark Iron dwarves were made playable: late formal alliance ceremony. That's just one example of many.
    Not sure what point you are trying to disprove with the first point. Sorry. Highmountain and Tauren are both Tauren. Nightborne and Night Elves are both Elves. Trolls are Trolls.

    I am focusing on the most important issue, the issue that everyone keeps sweeping away, possibly the reason High Elves will never happen.

    The implementation is important. Dark Iron dwarves were already part of the Alliance and not part of the Horde. No other race was a palette swap for Dark Irons from the Horde. It's not just that High Elves are in the Alliance. For what little everyone can agree on, that is one I think we can.

    The problem is implementing them to being playable. To be happy, the pro crowd would have to find something between a 5 and 6, and as I have said, anything beyond a 3 is going to experience major pushback.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YdqxOUk0G9s

    Go to 3 minutes in... Blood Elves are NOT High Elves. Get it right.
    Blood Elves are High Elves. Sorry if that triggers you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elbleuet View Post
    They aren't.

    Blood elves are fel corrupted thalassian elves. High elves are uncorrupted thalassian elves.

    That's like saying void elves are blood elves. Void elves are void corrupted thalassian elves.
    Blood Elves were fel corrupted. That was one of the issues that originally caused a split in the race. After the restoration of the Sunwell, that point no longer exists.

    and Void Elves are Blood Elves, that delved into the void. Again, sorry if that triggers you.

    No one has yet to come up with a reasonable compromise for implementing playable High Elves.

    Blizzard has made clear that a palette swap is out of the question (Option 6 on the continuum)

    Most people have dismissed giving Void Elves customization's (Option 4)

    If there exists an Option 5, I would love to hear it.

  2. #10582
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    The implementation is important. Dark Iron dwarves were already part of the Alliance and not part of the Horde.
    So are the high elves. There is the Silver Covenant, a decidedly Alliance group. There are also high elves not from the Silver Covenant around in the Alliance, too.

    No other race was a palette swap for Dark Irons from the Horde. It's not just that High Elves are in the Alliance. For what little everyone can agree on, that is one I think we can.
    This argument is kind of rendered null and void since void elves are literally "palette swaps" of a Horde race, and nightborne are literally "palette swaps" of an Alliance race, albeit with very minor posture changes.

    The problem is implementing them to being playable. To be happy, the pro crowd would have to find something between a 5 and 6, and as I have said, anything beyond a 3 is going to experience major pushback.
    Not really. From what I've read in this thread, most want the high elves because of their lore. Void elves, for example, would have been a decent compromise (at least in my opinion) if Umbric and his research group were a group of high elves, not blood elves.

    And as your list, since you mentioned it, is... kind of condescending. No one here is arguing for "pretty/prettier elves", then you add a fifth "unknown" option... doesn't look good. May not have been your intention, and if it wasn't, you need to work on your wording.

    Blood Elves are High Elves. Sorry if that triggers you.
    They are not high elves just like nightborne are not night elves.
    Last edited by Ielenia; 2019-05-30 at 11:54 PM.

  3. #10583
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So are the high elves. There is the Silver Covenant, a decidedly Alliance group. There are also high elves not from the Silver Covenant around in the Alliance, too.
    Blood elves are the main high elven group. They are on the Horde.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Not really. From what I've read in this thread, most want the high elves because of their lore. Void elves, for example, would have been a decent compromise (at least in my opinion) if Umbric and his research group were a group of high elves, not blood elves.
    99% of High Elf lore is shared with the Blood Elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They are not high elves just like nightborne are not night elves.
    Nightborne have been separated from night elves for 10,000 years. They've been evolved by the nightwell into a unique elven species.

    No such evolution has happened between Blood Elves and High Elves. Blood Elves only have a minor fel taint, which with the restored sunwell is being cleansed. Comparing nighborne/night elf with blood elf/high elf is like comparing apples to oranges.

    Blood elves are high elves. Blood elves are the same race as High Elves. Nightborne are not the same race as night elves, they are now a unique species. I would classify Void Elves as another unique elven species too now, but that is my opinion.

  4. #10584
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So are the high elves. There is the Silver Covenant, a decidedly Alliance group. There are also high elves not from the Silver Covenant around in the Alliance, too.
    This is missing the point, which is below, as much as you want to ignore it.

    This argument is kind of rendered null and void since void elves are literally "palette swaps" of a Horde race, and nightborne are literally "palette swaps" of an Alliance race, albeit with very minor posture changes.
    This. This is exactly my point. Blizzard gave the Alliance Void Elves. That wasn't enough. What would be enough, implementation wise. Pretend for a moment you are Blizzard. You have changed your mind, and you are going to give the Alliance High Elves. HOW? That is the entire point here.

    If Void Elves aren't enough and Blue Eyed Blood Elves aren't going to happen, what would work.


    Not really. From what I've read in this thread, most want the high elves because of their lore. Void elves, for example, would have been a decent compromise (at least in my opinion) if Umbric and his research group were a group of high elves, not blood elves.
    So the High Elves that are there, learning, and most probably being converted into Void Elves isn't enough either?

    And as your list, since you mentioned it, is... kind of condescending. No one here is arguing for "pretty/prettier elves", then you add a fifth "unknown" option... doesn't look good. May not have been your intention, and if it wasn't, you need to work on your wording.
    I left the 5th unknown option because I thought it would spark conversation and debate. Unfortunately, that hasn't been the case, at least thus far. Which is a shame. I am not saying the Pro High Elf community needs to become a hivemind and agree on anything, but someone, somewhere, needs to come up with a viable solution. Blizzard has given the Alliance Void Elves. That wasn't enough. They have added High Elves in the training grounds learning the void. That hasn't been enough. The very mention of furthering this trail just a bit and giving Void Elves High Elven options, even after a short questline solidifying High Elves and being converted and potentially retaining their prior form (A la Vareesa) has been rejected as not going far enough. The question remains, what solution, actual implementation of what this entire thread has been about, what it started off being, the brainstorming of ideas to make some sort of High Elven playable race.

    So, potential Option 5: High Elves, whether they be Silver Covenant, the Hunter's Lodge, whatever, a group of highly trained High Elves poofs into existence from somewhere. They have outright rejected the Blood Elves and their pursuit for Fel and affiliation with the Horde in the past. They are against the Void Elves but tolerate them for the Alliance's sake. They become friendly with the Lightforged Draenei. The Lightforged offer to let this elite group of High Elven scholars attempt the Lightforged Campaign. Miraculously, many survive. Bearing similar tattoos and even horns as the Draenei these Elves decide to strike their own path. No longer bound to the name High Elf, which they perceive as having been tainted by the majority of the kind choosing to become Blood Elves and later Void Elves, they call themselves (for lack of a better term) Blin'dorei or Radiants. They become closer allies with Lightforged, increasing their own lore and that of the Lightforged, which hasn't had much lore built up to this point either.

    Like I said, that is a potential Option 5. I'm sure Obelisk Kai and other will hate it. Thats fine. Like I have said, anything past a 3 at this point is going to have push back. I do feel there is room for some sort of implementation of a High Elven race, it just has to be done correctly. There has to be some sort of defining feature that seperates THIS race from THAT race. Whether it is making them slightly taller, slightly darker, firey eyes, whatever. That bar hasn't been set extremely high. Unfortunately, a blanket "High Elf" is for all intents and purposes a Blue Eyed Blood Elf.


    They are not high elves just like nightborne are not night elves.
    But they are Night Elves. The only difference is 10,000 years of drinking Moonwell water.

  5. #10585
    Quote Originally Posted by LawdArthas View Post
    Blood elves are the main high elven group. They are on the Horde.
    So what?

    99% of High Elf lore is shared with the Blood Elves.
    Blood elves don't call themselves 'high elves'. Blood elves will let go of their principles and morals to survive, high elves don't. Etc, etc...

    Nightborne have been separated from night elves for 10,000 years. They've been evolved by the nightwell into a unique elven species.
    They still look nearly the exact same. They haven't changed in ways like the vrykul->human transition was. Or night elf->high elf.

    Blood elves are high elves.
    But not all high elves are blood elves.

    Nightborne are not the same race as night elves, they are now a unique species.
    Not "unique" enough since they're still almost indistinguishable from a night elf.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    This is missing the point, which is below, as much as you want to ignore it.
    I'm not missing the point. Implementation is the easiest part on developing the playable high elf race.

    This. This is exactly my point. Blizzard gave the Alliance Void Elves. That wasn't enough. What would be enough, implementation wise.
    Easy: give us high elves and not blood elves.

    Pretend for a moment you are Blizzard. You have changed your mind, and you are going to give the Alliance High Elves. HOW? That is the entire point here.
    Simple: have Anduin formally induct the Silver Covenant into the Alliance. Like he did with the Dark Irons when you completed their introduction quest chain. This is one possible solution out of many.

    So the High Elves that are there, learning, and most probably being converted into Void Elves isn't enough either?
    The point is lore, and the void elves are not high elf lore, they're blood elf lore. They're Horde elves, elves that accepted Kael'Thas teachings to drain mana from living beings, etc, etc.

    But they are Night Elves. The only difference is 10,000 years of drinking Moonwell water.
    And yet they still look the exact same, only with a palette swap.

  6. #10586
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    So what?
    The high elf race is already playable. That's "so what".


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    Blood elves don't call themselves 'high elves'. Blood elves will let go of their principles and morals to survive, high elves don't. Etc, etc...
    Alleria says hi.


    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    They still look nearly the exact same. They haven't changed in ways like the vrykul->human transition was. Or night elf->high elf.
    There's even less distinction between high elves and blood elves. Yet you think they're distinct enough to be playable.

  7. #10587
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I'm not missing the point. Implementation is the easiest part on developing the playable high elf race.
    /Easy: give us high elves and not blood elves.
    How? How are you going to do that? How are you going to make a High Elf different from a Blood Elf?


    Simple: have Anduin formally induct the Silver Covenant into the Alliance. Like he did with the Dark Irons when you completed their introduction quest chain. This is one possible solution out of many.
    This goes back to the previous question. How. Right now you are taking a Blood Elf, changing the eye color and saying welcome to the Alliance. That has been dismissed out of hand by Blizzard and that is what the entire issue at hand is.


    The point is lore, and the void elves are not high elf lore, they're blood elf lore. They're Horde elves, elves that accepted Kael'Thas teachings to drain mana from living beings, etc, etc.
    Ok. Even distending the belief that Blood Elves are High Elves and thus Void Elf Lore IS High Elf Lore, you still have High Elves learning the void. Lets pretend in patch 8.3.5 Blizzard adds a questline where a group of High Elves take up the ritual to become void elves and in the process are able to retain some of their High Elven features, but retain Void Elven racials, etc. What then? Would that be enough? I realize you don't speak for an entire community, but for you personnally, would that be enough, to play a Void Elf, that had been a member of the Silver Covenant, you watch them take on the ritual to become a Void Elf, and you play a Void Elf, with fair skin. Would that be enough?

  8. #10588
    Quote Originally Posted by LawdArthas View Post
    The high elf race is already playable. That's "so what".
    Objectively false because I don't see any race named "High elf" in the Alliance side race selection screen.

    There's even less distinction between high elves and blood elves. Yet you think they're distinct enough to be playable.
    Except I'm not arguing making them physically distinct is necessary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    How? How are you going to do that? How are you going to make a High Elf different from a Blood Elf?

    This goes back to the previous question. How.
    I've already answered it to you. Twice. You continue to ignore the answer.

    Right now you are taking a Blood Elf, changing the eye color and saying welcome to the Alliance.
    Just like Blizzard took a blood elf, changed skin color and said "welcome to the Alliance"?

    Ok. Even distending the belief that Blood Elves are High Elves and thus Void Elf Lore IS High Elf Lore, you still have High Elves learning the void.
    Still wouldn't be a good compromise because of the bad taste Blizzard's choices for the implementation of void elves left in the proverbial mouths of the pro-high elf community. Blizzard had the perfect opportunity to release high elves to the Alliance, and yet they squandered it, to avoid using stronger words.

  9. #10589
    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    I've already answered it to you. Twice. You continue to ignore the answer.
    You have answered your own questions without regard for the point I had originally asked.


    Just like Blizzard took a blood elf, changed skin color and said "welcome to the Alliance"?
    And had a quest line, a purpose behind the skin color change, in addition to hair and other features that Blood Elves do not have access to. The point being, you are not getting Blood Elves with a different eye color. Ignore that fact, pretend Blizzard is wrong, whatever you want to do. Until a viable option is made, the "High Elf or Nothing" chants will continue to be met with Blizzards answer. Nothing.

    Still wouldn't be a good compromise because of the bad taste Blizzard's choices for the implementation of void elves left in the proverbial mouths of the pro-high elf community. Blizzard had the perfect opportunity to release high elves to the Alliance, and yet they squandered it, to avoid using stronger words.
    Blizzard played their cards cautiously as they always do. Instead of making constructive criticisms or suggestions, the majority of the High Elven community have resorted to temper tantrums and literally saying Blizzard is wrong in their own lore.

  10. #10590
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    We cannot invent a new concept out of nowhere since we are requesting for an existing asset to be made playable (1) with all that it implies.

    There have already been many suggestions of possible things that they could use for playable HE, we cannot do the dev's work, since they are the ones who would work on that in the end, and not us.

    (1) When an Allied Race is added, it -always- come with new assets for it, that's Blizzard's work, not us, since we are not developers and we can only suggest and being extra specific with suggestions is not the way to go.

  11. #10591
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    We cannot invent a new concept out of nowhere since we are requesting for an existing asset to be made playable (1) with all that it implies.

    There have already been many suggestions of possible things that they could use for playable HE, we cannot do the dev's work, since they are the ones who would work on that in the end, and not us.

    (1) When an Allied Race is added, it -always- come with new assets for it, that's Blizzard's work, not us, since we are not developers and we can only suggest and being extra specific with suggestions is not the way to go.
    That is exactly my point.

    You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

    Everything up to this point has been met with "That's not High Elven enough". Why would Blizzard do anything else with regards to High Elves if the only option that would make them happy is the one option that would destroy any purpose of factions?

  12. #10592
    --- snip ---
    Last edited by Aucald; 2019-05-31 at 01:10 AM. Reason: Removed Meme Image

  13. #10593
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    That is exactly my point.

    You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.

    Everything up to this point has been met with "That's not High Elven enough". Why would Blizzard do anything else with regards to High Elves if the only option that would make them happy is the one option that would destroy any purpose of factions?
    Destroy the purposes of factions? What are you on about?

    High elves are Alliance, there is not 'purpose of factions' to destroy, it's an existing part of such faction, it's -current- identity. They are already there, is not a faction swap in any given mean since this game has told us that High elves are alliance enough times to consider them Alliance members.

  14. #10594
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    You have answered your own questions without regard for the point I had originally asked.
    You asked "how to implement them", and I answered "how to implement them", twice already. If that is not what you want to hear, perhaps you should be a little more specific with your question instead of making it vague.

    And had a quest line,
    And so would the high elves, assuming they're implemented as an allied race and not like a "normal" race (i.e. like the worgen/draenei/goblin/etc)

    a purpose behind the skin color change, in addition to hair and other features that Blood Elves do not have access to.
    All of that is irrelevant, since those "skin color, hair and other features" can and are available to blood elves, with gameplay limitations being the sole reason why they're not.

    The point being, you are not getting Blood Elves with a different eye color.
    Good, because we don't want blood elves. We want high elves.

    Ignore that fact,
    What fact? Especially since Blizzard has said that high elf customization is "possible"?

    Instead of making constructive criticisms or suggestions, the majority of the High Elven community have resorted to temper tantrums and literally saying Blizzard is wrong in their own lore.
    Perhaps you should remove your bias and look more critically. That's not what the "majority" is doing.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    You aren't getting Blue Eyed Blood Elves.
    You're not Blizzard.

  15. #10595
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    Destroy the purposes of factions? What are you on about?

    High elves are Alliance, there is not 'purpose of factions' to destroy, it's an existing part of such faction, it's -current- identity. They are already there, is not a faction swap in any given mean since this game has told us that High elves are alliance enough times to consider them Alliance members.
    The Continuum of Elven Inclusivity

    (1)-----(2)-----(3)-----(4)-----(5)-----(6)

    As it exists now, we are at a 3. Both factions have a Thalassian Elf model and a Kaldorei Elf Model.

    Moving past a 3 begins to diminish the Factions as it pertains to playable races.

    High Elves are Alliance. It is an existing part of the faction, it is current, they are there.

    It is absolutely a faction swap to give Blue Eyed Blood Elves to the Alliance. There is no other way around it. If "Gimme High Elves" is all you are going to offer, they will never be playable on the Alliance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ielenia View Post
    You asked "how to implement them", and I answered "how to implement them", twice already. If that is not what you want to hear, perhaps you should be a little more specific with your question instead of making it vague.
    Wrong. I asked how to implement High Elves without being a direct swap of blood elves, giving them lore, context, and visualy distinguishing features. You answered with, gimme.


    And so would the high elves, assuming they're implemented as an allied race and not like a "normal" race (i.e. like the worgen/draenei/goblin/etc)
    The quest line can't simply be the introduction of the Silver Covenant. There is nothing separating them from Blood Elves. Blood Elves aren't happening on the Alliance.


    All of that is irrelevant, since those "skin color, hair and other features" can and are available to blood elves, with gameplay limitations being the sole reason why they're not.
    Gameplay, Factions existing, etc.


    Good, because we don't want blood elves. We want high elves.
    Based on every single available peice of lore, a High Elf is a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes. Perhaps there is a language barrier or something else in effect here. I am willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. How do YOU define a High Elf if it is not a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes?

    Perhaps you should remove your bias and look more critically. That's not what the "majority" is doing.
    Perhaps you should remove your bias, read what is being presented, and then respond.

    You're not Blizzard.
    And neither are you. Thankfully we have Ion Hozzikostas who is and has plainly said Blue Eyed Blood Elves aren't happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dontrelleroosevelt View Post
    You're not using the word "trigger" correctly, first of all. Secondly, Blood Elves WERE High Elves, but are no longer. If you don't know that, you shouldn't even be here!
    Please try harder to troll in the future please.

    Blood Elves were High Elves. They are the continuation of High Elves. They are the legacy of the High Elves. Long live the High Elves of Warcraft, the mighty might Blood Elves.

  16. #10596
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    The Continuum of Elven Inclusivity

    (1)-----(2)-----(3)-----(4)-----(5)-----(6)

    As it exists now, we are at a 3. Both factions have a Thalassian Elf model and a Kaldorei Elf Model.

    Moving past a 3 begins to diminish the Factions as it pertains to playable races.

    High Elves are Alliance. It is an existing part of the faction, it is current, they are there.

    It is absolutely a faction swap to give Blue Eyed Blood Elves to the Alliance. There is no other way around it. If "Gimme High Elves" is all you are going to offer, they will never be playable on the Alliance.
    If 'Gimme High Elves' is all you get from here i think you should reconsider some things as you are not on touch with the matter.

    There has been already a case of a literal carbon copy race between both factions and nothing happened, and more recently we had versions of former Horde and Alliance race models swapped, and nothing happened.

    You can't defeat the purposes of the factions unless you are literally leaving to the player the option of placing his character in whatever faction he decides, which has only happened with Pandaren and not every available race. In this case, a High elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets.

    Do you know what you mean by saying that this would defeat the purposes of the factions? Because for me that would be the option to place any character in whatever faction while at the same time being able to play with members of the other faction as if they were in mine. THAT'S a defeated faction concept.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-05-31 at 01:36 AM. Reason: typo

  17. #10597
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    Wrong. I asked how to implement High Elves without being a direct swap of blood elves, giving them lore, context, and visualy distinguishing features. You answered with, gimme.
    No, you just asked how to implement them. And "without being a direct swap of blood elves" and "giving them lore" are moot points since void elves are exactly that. Lore and context? We have both. We have the Silver Covenant and all the high elves that remain sided with the Alliance. Visually distinguishing features? Again, we have void elves and nightborne. That ship has sunk an expansion ago.

    The quest line can't simply be the introduction of the Silver Covenant. There is nothing separating them from Blood Elves.
    Why not? And we have enough lore to distinguish both, to the point of there having a massive rift between the two groups.

    Blood Elves aren't happening on the Alliance.
    Thank goodness no one in the pro-high elf community is asking for blood elves in the Alliance. Here's a newsflash for you: one reason why the void elves are so maligned in the pro-high elf community is because they're blood elves and not high elves.

    Gameplay, Factions existing, etc.
    "Factions existing" is another moot point thanks to the introduction of nightborne and void elves.

    Based on every single available peice of lore, a High Elf is a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes.
    When you ignore all evidence on the contrary, of course all the evidence you see points to your conclusion. How about the massive rift between the two groups? Their culture differences?

    Perhaps there is a language barrier or something else in effect here.
    Void elves can actually speak the blood elf language.

    How do YOU define a High Elf if it is not a Blood Elf with Blue Eyes?
    I define high elves as the elves who still stood by their principles, refusing to drain mana from living beings and demons, stayed on the side of the Light, and still loyal to the Alliance.

    Thankfully we have Ion Hozzikostas who is and has plainly said Blue Eyed Blood Elves aren't happening.
    Just like Blizzard has been plainly saying vanilla servers "aren't happening" for over a decade, now? Remind me what Blizzard game is currently in 'beta' right now, please?

  18. #10598
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    If 'Gimme High Elves' is all you get from here i think you should reconsider some things as you are not on touch with the matter.

    There has been already a case of a literal carbon copy race between both factions and nothing happened, and more recently we had versions of former Horde and Alliance race models swapped, and nothing happened.

    You can't defeat the purposes of the factions unless you are literally leaving to the player the option of placing his character in whatever faction he decides, which has only happened with Pandaren and not every available race. In this case, a High elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets.

    Do you know what you mean by saying that this would defeat the purposes of the factions? Because for me that would be the option to place any character in whatever faction while at the same time being able to play with members of the other faction as if they were in mine. THAT'S a defeated faction concept.
    Again, the continuum shows that we are only at an Option 3. There was no "literal carbon copy" between both factions. There were alterations, additions, and changes enough to not cross any factional divide.

    What you are asking is tantamount to making Blood Elves neutral. You say "a High Elf is not a Blood elf and if it gets added it will certainly come with tweaks to it as any existing race that became allied race did by developing on their assets." That is my entire point. Thus far, no suggestion has been made.

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    [QUOTE=Ielenia;51253790]No, you just asked how to implement them. And "without being a direct swap of blood elves" and "giving them lore" are moot points since void elves are exactly that. Lore and context? We have both. We have the Silver Covenant and all the high elves that remain sided with the Alliance. Visually distinguishing features? Again, we have void elves and nightborne. That ship has sunk an expansion ago.[quote]
    They are not moot points and I have already told you repeatedly why. You simply choose to ignore any facts that don't align with your opinion.

    And Void Elves and Nighbourne are visually distinct.


    Why not? And we have enough lore to distinguish both, to the point of there having a massive rift between the two groups.
    Because that is a Blood Elf.

    Thank goodness no one in the pro-high elf community is asking for blood elves in the Alliance. Here's a newsflash for you: one reason why the void elves are so maligned in the pro-high elf community is because they're blood elves and not high elves.
    Wrong again. That is exactly what the pro-high elves are asking.

    "Factions existing" is another moot point thanks to the introduction of nightborne and void elves.
    Wrong again. See above. They are distinct.


    When you ignore all evidence on the contrary, of course all the evidence you see points to your conclusion. How about the massive rift between the two groups? Their culture differences?
    The only person ignoring lore is you. The massive rift between the two groups. One group is Alliance, one is Horde. All other issues have dissolved and resolved with the Sunwell. Cultural differences are hardly enough to make a viable race, especially when any differences are minimal.


    Void elves can actually speak the blood elf language.
    I was referring to you, yourself, as having a language barrier.


    I define high elves as the elves who still stood by their principles, refusing to drain mana from living beings and demons, stayed on the side of the Light, and still loyal to the Alliance.
    Ok. This is a start. The blood elves used to drain mana from living beings and demons. That is no longer the case following the Sunwell. Problem solved.
    Blood Elves never gave up the light. Some resorted to draining from a Naaru, but they remained Paladins and Priests. As far as that goes, the Silver Covenant is viewed more Arcane than Light based, so that point is moot. So the only defining characteristic left is the whole point of all of this, they have remained loyal to the Alliance. That's it.


    Just like Blizzard has been plainly saying vanilla servers "aren't happening" for over a decade, now? Remind me what Blizzard game is currently in 'beta' right now, please?
    Wow Classic. They decided their was enough of a market to potentially be profitable to produce a classic experience for a game they produced in the past.

    That is in no way similar to the discussion at hand. "But Blizzard changed their mind". Yea. Good people do. There is a difference in changing your mind and making a product, and abandoning lore and precedence, and giving 1 race to 2 factions.

  19. #10599
    Quote Originally Posted by Neverafter View Post
    They are not moot points and I have already told you repeatedly why. You simply choose to ignore any facts that don't align with your opinion.

    And Void Elves and Nighbourne are visually distinct.
    They are moot. Simple as that, and I explained why. And void elves and nightborne being "visually distinct" is also a moot point because we have a game in where 90% of the armor graphics cover their entire body. Making one elf skin purple while the other light-skinned means zero when they still share the exact same silhouette and animations. You will not distinguish a void elf from a blood elf, or a night elf from a nightborne, before their health/name/outline colors clue you in as to which race they are.

    Because that is a Blood Elf.
    In one side of that rift are the blood elves. On the other side, are the high elves.

    Wrong again. That is exactly what the pro-high elves are asking.
    No, that's just what your strawman of the pro-high elf community is asking for. Seriously, you're playing dumb by now, if you really think void elves were "exactly" what the pro-high elf community has been asking for.

    Wrong again. See above. They are distinct.
    Not in any meaningful way. Skin color means absolute nada when 90% of the armor in the game covers 90% of your character's body. The only thing that really matters in terms of visual distinctiveness for "faction identity" is silhouettes, and those have been spread around already, thanks to nightborne and void elves.

    The only person ignoring lore is you. The massive rift between the two groups. One group is Alliance, one is Horde. All other issues have dissolved and resolved with the Sunwell. Cultural differences are hardly enough to make a viable race, especially when any differences are minimal.
    No, they haven't. The blood elves are still the more "reckless" elves, whereas the high elves are still the "cautious/conservative" elves.

    Ok. This is a start. The blood elves used to drain mana from living beings and demons. That is no longer the case following the Sunwell. Problem solved.
    No, it's not "solved". The issue remains because it shows that the blood elves differ heavily from the high elves as they'll seek reckless means of survival, to the point of abandoning all their principles.

    Blood Elves never gave up the light. Some resorted to draining from a Naaru, but they remained Paladins and Priests.
    They gave up on the Light. They decided that the Light had forsaken them for allowing such a massacre at their own homeland. They decided not only to stop serving the light, but also enslave the light. Remember that they were all too willing to enslave and torture a Naaru. There were still paladins and priests, but they were the slavers of the Light, not its servants.

    As far as that goes, the Silver Covenant is viewed more Arcane than Light based, so that point is moot.
    Ah... what? "More arcane based than Light based"? Where did that nonsense came from?

    Wow Classic.
    Thank you. You've proven my point.

    That is in no way similar to the discussion at hand.
    They're more than simply similar: they're the exact same, because you're saying that just because Blizzard is saying "no" now and have been saying "no" for a decade, that means it's "not happening", i.e. won't ever happen. And yet, until last Blizzcon, the exact same thing could be said about WoW Classic.

    There is a difference in changing your mind and making a product, and abandoning lore and precedence, and giving 1 race to 2 factions.
    Remember you're talking about a company that has done some massive retcons in the lore. The biggest that come to mind is the entire Onyxia quest line.

    On top of that: there is no "ignoring lore and precedence", as explained earlier. For lore, high elves already exist, and are already part of the Alliance. All that is left to do is making them playable. As for "ignoring precedence", on the contrary: the void elf and nightborne races actually set the precedent that allows the introduction of high elves.

  20. #10600
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    @Neverafter You keep stating that adding HE would be against current lore, that HE are simply blue eyed Blood elves and that this is about making Blood elves neutral...

    Since you are maintaining those assumptions and still trying to come here pretending to be some kind of judge or arbiter in a condescending manner i don't have anything else to add, please, get more on touch with what is being discussed since you are not demonstrating it.

    You are not a wow developer and you cannot assume what they do or what they think solely based on what they have added or didn't added in the game because you think that means whatever you think it means. Surely you think that not any of them will look at your 'continuum' ever so you simply made it because you felt so. It's, at least, biased not only with your assumptions with what the developers have their minds on but also with what you think about the HE request.

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