Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Neverafter]

At this point, I feel like even if Blizzard doesn't make High Elves playable on the Alliance, they need more story development.

Imagine being a High Elf in Warcraft. You look at the Horde and Blood Elves as vampiric and brutes if not outright monsters. The Alliance is suspicious of you from the outset because you ARE so close to those "evil" Blood Elves. You continue to fight for the Alliance in their war effort, but you have no real representation for your race in any of the goings on of the Alliance. There are so few of you and your kind now, that everyone, Alliance and Horde, all but considers your kind extinct and a dying breed.

The only two groups of High Elves with any real numbers are the High Vale Elves and the Silver Covenant. The Sunreavers have been brought into the Blood Elven Army proper, but as far as we know, the Silver Covenant remains neutral and aligned with the Kirin Tor. It feels like the High Elves are all but forgotten, except as cannon fodder and to "look pretty" as NPC's.

At some point, I would be pissed. I would like to see the High Vale Elves approach the Silver Covenant to join what remains of the two groups into a standing army, and the leader of said force March on Stormwind, pledge loyalty to the Alliance and demand what few people of my kind remain will no longer be ignored or looked over. Even established racial leaders aren't involved in every decision of the factions, but to have a High Elf, Alliance aligned, involved in ANY decisions, to have a group, however how small of High Elves to be able to point to and contrast (or emphasize) what truly separates them from Blood Elves and how they have been and will continue to be a great asset to the Alliance could do wonders for a race that, honestly, Blizzard has forgotten.

Biologically and visually Blood Elves and High Elves are the same. That much is true. But the differences do matter. The personality traits matter. If for no other reason than to build up the story of the High Elves. When faced with almost unbearable pain and suffering withdrawals from magic, did you leech the life essence of creatures, demons, etc, or did you stick to your morals, and through shear force of will, fight the withdraw symptoms until the Sunwell was restored? Then Blizzard would have 2 options.

Either make this group of pissed off, ready to fight High Elves playable for the Alliance players, or through some chain of events, wipe out the last remaining group of High Elves loyal to the Alliance off the face of Azeroth and be done with the whole debate all together.

Continuing to use High Elves for NPC roles with little lore involvement is a disservice to what remains of the race and to Warcraft as a whole.

[Doffen]

In the same way, Void Elves are a type of High Elf. But Blood Elves ARE High Elves that embody the ideal of the High Elf within Warcraft. It is Void Elves who have been differentiated from Blood/High Elves. Void Elves are still High Elves in the same way a Dark Iron Dwarf is still a Dwarf, but the differences both have with other groups mean we must always qualify it. Hence to say a Void Elf is the same as a Blood Elf is wrong, just as to say a Dark Iron Dwarf is the same as a Dwarf is wrong, because we understand that Dwarf means Bronzebeard, and Blood Elf means a traditional style thalassian elf.

You know, the leader of the Dark Iron Dwarves, her name is Moira. And who is she in family with? She is the daughter of the previous King, Magni Bronzebeard of Ironforge. Who is her uncle? Muradin, the King of Ironforge. Another uncle, Brann. Moira is a Bronzebeard, or is she a Dark Iron Dwarf? She sees herself like one. Same with the Void Elves. Who were their families? Yes, Blood Elves. And Blood Elves are High Elves. So what do that make Void Elves?

Let's take another example. Are Worgen another race than Human? Are Genn Greymane not a Human? Genn can go in and out of the worgen form. Alleria can do that with her Voidform. They are still Human and High Elf. Turalyon, is he a Lightforged Human only, and not Human? He is another race than King Anduin?

All this backs up my points that the character screen selection doesn't say that a Dark Iron Dwarf is not a Dwarf, or a Void Elf is not a High Elf. They differenciate them when it comes to abilities, location and yes, skin/hair/tattoo selection. The story provide us with what race they really belong to.

"As fer the Dark Iron clan, the Alliance needs us now more than ever."

[elbleuet]

So if high elves = blood elves, then blood elves = high elves.


Good to know that blood elves are in both factions. Then the Alliance has a legit claim on Silvermoon.

[Ielenia]

No, the rift was caused by a philosophical dispute over how to feed their addiction, a philosophical dispute that no longer exists as the Sunwell was restored. The political dispute is all that is left. Your argument therefore is

And yet the political and cultural rift still exists, as evidenced by the numerous conflicts between high elves and blood elves. It's not solely about having to feed on living beings, anymore. It was what sparked the rift, but it's not the sole cause for its current existence.

Your opinion is wrong.

Thanks for your opinion, however flawed it is.

Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves are the same race.

So are highmountain tauren and tauren. Lightforged draenei and draenei. Kul'tiran humans and humans. Worgen and humans. Especially since the child of two worgen is a normal human.

Void Elves are blue and have tentacles.

Blood/High Elves are not blue and do not have tentacles.

That is all I care about when I say they are biologically distinct, because that is all that matters.

Then inform yourself on the definition of words. Biologically distinct means they're different at a genetic level. Differences that are simply surface level, like the differences between a void elf and blood elf, are, as far as evidence shows, physical distinctions.

Unless you can prove that the child of two void elves is a void elf, and not a blood elf, they're not biologically distinct.

the Elves in Silvermoon who form the vast majority of their race

It's completely irrelevant if the blood elves form the majority of the thalassian elf reputation, and I'd appreciate if you stopped repeating this dishonest argument that "high elves are playable in the Horde", since the race that is playable in the horde is the blood elves, not the high elves. Especially since that high elves would never be part of the Horde, in the current game's lore.

Blood Elves do not feed on other living beings like mana vampires. They did so for a short period, but that period ended a long time ago in real life.

The important parts are: a) they did; and b) I have yet to see a single blood elf regret those decisions.

Saying the true High Elves are defined by their alignment to the Alliance means that it is the Alliance who gets to define what a high elf is.

Except this is either your misrepresentation, or misunderstanding of the "true high elf" sentence. When we say "true high elf", we're not saying that the high elves are the "true elves", but actually the ones that are not blood elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

You know, the leader of the Dark Iron Dwarves, her name is Moira. And who is she in family with? She is the daughter of the previous King, Magni Bronzebeard of Ironforge. Who is her uncle? Muradin, the King of Ironforge. Another uncle, Brann. Moira is a Bronzebeard, or is she a Dark Iron Dwarf? She sees herself like one. Same with the Void Elves. Who were their families? Yes, Blood Elves. And Blood Elves are High Elves. So what do that make Void Elves?

Let's take another example. Are Worgen another race than Human? Are Genn Greymane not a Human? Genn can go in and out of the worgen form. Alleria can do that with her Voidform. They are still Human and High Elf. Turalyon, is he a Lightforged Human only, and not Human? He is another race than King Anduin?

All this backs up my points that the character screen selection doesn't say that a Dark Iron Dwarf is not a Dwarf, or a Void Elf is not a High Elf. They differenciate them when it comes to abilities, location and yes, skin/hair/tattoo selection. The story provide us with what race they really belong to.

"As fer the Dark Iron clan, the Alliance needs us now more than ever."

Moira is a Bronzebeard Dwarf who rules the Dark Iron by virtue of her marriage to Emperor Thaurrisan. She is a Dark Iron Dwarf by marriage, not blood. Is Turalyon suddenly a Draenei because of his leadership position among the Lightforged?

Worgen are cursed Humans. The differentiation between them and ordinary Humans lies in their ability to shapeshift. They are most definitely not Human when in Worgen form.

Turalyon would actually qualify as an allied race, Lightforged Humans, under Blizzard's own rules if there were more than one of him and the option was opened to players.

All are distinct from their parent races, not identical.

Void Elves are distinct from Blood/High Elves. Alliance High Elves are not distinct from Blood Elves.

- - - Updated - - -

So if high elves = blood elves, then blood elves = high elves.


Good to know that blood elves are in both factions. Then the Alliance has a legit claim on Silvermoon.

No, because the Alliance High Elves are traitors to the Kingdom of Silvermoon. The Alliance has as much of a legitimate claim to Silvermoon as the Soviet Union did to Washington during the Cold War thanks to the presence of American defectors in Moscow.

- - - Updated - - -

And yet the political and cultural rift still exists, as evidenced by the numerous conflicts between high elves and blood elves. It's not solely about having to feed on living beings, anymore. It was what sparked the rift, but it's not the sole cause for its current existence.

There has been one conflict between the Blood Elves and the Dalaran expatriates during Mists of Pandaria. The rest of the time they have been sniffy towards each other. You are right though it wasn't solely about feeding on living beings as that initial dispute was resolved. What is left is the political distinction between Alliance and Horde.

Thanks for your opinion, however flawed it is.

Pretending this is my opinion is simply an easy way for you to reject it. Chris Metzen said Blood Elves are High Elves. Ion Hazzikostas said Blood Elves are High Elves. What they say goes as authorial word of god. Your 'opinion' is wrong because I can quote developers saying things that contradict you. Therefore, I am not expressing a personal opinion you can reject. I am repeating word of god on this matter.

Word of God can only be superseded by future Word of God, either dev commentary or in game events. If you have a problem with this, I suggest you find a way to contact them directly and hash it out with them.

So are highmountain tauren and tauren. Lightforged draenei and draenei. Kul'tiran humans and humans.

The continual confusion between similar and identical is worrying, considering they are relatively straightforward concepts. To clarify, similar implies a certain amount of difference, identical means they are the same.

Highmountain Tauren and Tauren are SIMILAR to each other.

Lightforged Draenei and Draenei are SIMILAR to each other.

Blood Elves and Void Elves are SIMILAR to each other.

Blood Elves and High Elves are IDENTICAL.

Similar means there is enough of a difference that you can be an Allied race. Identical means the option is already available and if you wish to play it so badly, go ahead and do so.

It's completely irrelevant if the blood elves form the majority of the thalassian elf reputation, and I'd appreciate if you stopped repeating this dishonest argument that "high elves are playable in the Horde", since the race that is playable in the horde is the blood elves, not the high elves. Especially since that high elves would never be part of the Horde, in the current game's lore.

If you would appreciate that, I am going to have to disappoint you. Blood Elves ARE High Elves, and facilitating you in pretending they are not is on my to do list. High Elves are thus available for play within the Horde. There mere fact Blood Elves are a part of the Horde shows you are incorrect in stating High Elves would never be part of the Horde. And if we are to refer to the Alliance High Elves, the sole Alliance High Elf of note, Veressa, was quite willing to join the Horde under the correct circumstances and only chickened out at the very last moment.

And the possession not just of a majority, but a super majority of the remaining thalassian elves is very pertinent because it shows the continuity between High Elf and Blood Elf. The majority changed their name to remember the fallen. And as Quel'lithien demonstrates, some of them changed back, proving that at the end of the day, it's just an adjective.

The important parts are: a) they did; and b) I have yet to see a single blood elf regret those decisions.

That they did is immaterial, as a point of differentiation it no longer exists and even if it did it still wouldn't be enough to justify Alliance High Elves as an Allied race.

Except this is either your misrepresentation, or misunderstanding of the "true high elf" sentence. When we say "true high elf", we're not saying that the high elves are the "true elves", but actually the ones that are not blood elves.

Blood Elves are the true High Elves of the franchise, as defined by Chris Metzen, Ion Hazzikostas and every in game and out of game piece of lore that I can find.
Blood Elves are the legacy of Quel'thalas, the inheritors of everything it was to be a High Elf.
A couple of expatriate traitors in Dalaran with no true future of their own isn't going to change that.

[Doffen]

Moira is a Bronzebeard Dwarf who rules the Dark Iron by virtue of her marriage to Emperor Thaurrisan. She is a Dark Iron Dwarf by marriage, not blood.

Exactly. Dark Iron Dwarves is just a clan of Dwarves, wich had their own society and leadership. Now they are a clan within the Dwarves. Moira herself confirm this. Yet again you fail to see them as race within the story, just looking at the character selection.

Is Turalyon suddenly a Draenei because of his leadership position among the Lightforged?

What? No, he is a human. What you wrote makes no sense.

Worgen are cursed Humans. The differentiation between them and ordinary Humans lies in their ability to shapeshift. They are most definitely not Human when in Worgen form.

They are still Human.

Turalyon would actually qualify as an allied race, Lightforged Humans, under Blizzard's own rules if there were more than one of him and the option was opened to players.

But they would still be human.

Void Elves are distinct from Blood/High Elves. Alliance High Elves are not distinct from Blood Elves.

Yes they are, they are on the Alliance, thus different than the Blood Elves.

[ninthbelief]

I did it back in November and have been advertising people to do it since, but if you're a High Elf supporter and you haven't unsubbed yet, it's about time.

If you remember, during Blizzcon last year, Alex and Patrick had a separate interview and said to stay passionate about High Elves and the discussion for them.



This is no longer Blizzard's outlook on the situation.



On the official forums, threads about High Elves are being locked, including the megathread. A GM response said that the problem reached Blizzard long ago, development is aware of it, and development addressed the issue in multiple Q&As. They don't want people providing feedback about High Elves anymore.

There is absolutely no reason a High Elf supporter should be giving Blizzard money at this point. It's clear that, if they care about feedback at all, it's the public eye variety -- and even then, they probably don't care about it much. The best place to provide feedback to Blizzard, even about High Elves, is primarily their Twitter and arguably their subreddit, though to a lesser extent since they have control of the moderation there. Tertiary discussion sites like MMO-C are probably still okay places to discuss, but I'd be willing to bet it's more akin to containment than an actual place for feedback, similar to the discords.

You can keep up the discussion if you want by hitting twitter, but other than that, I'd drop all other forms of feedback and I'd especially drop your sub. Money speaks more than anything and Blizzard's not putting out any fires till November. Unsub and stay unsubbed if Blizzcon doesn't provide what you want from the game. Sitting on the game complaining about High Elves and sitting in a containment site like MMO-C isn't doing you any favors, it's just shaving years off your life and wasting your time.

[Neverafter]

High Elves or no High Elves, I'm still going to play the game if I am having fun.

Unsubbing as some kind of protest makes no sense. Why would Blizzard cave in to a minority of players who had a hissyfit and quit the game?

High Elves isn't a make or break thing for me. I would like to see them playable on the Alliance, but I'm not staging protests or trying to get a rallying cry together.

[Starla]

I did it back in November and have been advertising people to do it since, but if you're a High Elf supporter and you haven't unsubbed yet, it's about time.

If you remember, during Blizzcon last year, Alex and Patrick had a separate interview and said to stay passionate about High Elves and the discussion for them.



This is no longer Blizzard's outlook on the situation.



On the official forums, threads about High Elves are being locked, including the megathread. A GM response said that the problem reached Blizzard long ago, development is aware of it, and development addressed the issue in multiple Q&As. They don't want people providing feedback about High Elves anymore.

There is absolutely no reason a High Elf supporter should be giving Blizzard money at this point. It's clear that, if they care about feedback at all, it's the public eye variety -- and even then, they probably don't care about it much. The best place to provide feedback to Blizzard, even about High Elves, is primarily their Twitter and arguably their subreddit, though to a lesser extent since they have control of the moderation there. Tertiary discussion sites like MMO-C are probably still okay places to discuss, but I'd be willing to bet it's more akin to containment than an actual place for feedback, similar to the discords.

You can keep up the discussion if you want by hitting twitter, but other than that, I'd drop all other forms of feedback and I'd especially drop your sub. Money speaks more than anything and Blizzard's not putting out any fires till November. Unsub and stay unsubbed if Blizzcon doesn't provide what you want from the game. Sitting on the game complaining about High Elves and sitting in a containment site like MMO-C isn't doing you any favors, it's just shaving years off your life and wasting your time.

Thank you so much for putting this out here so we all can appreciate it. It kind puts the helfer demands in perspective.

I'd say the arguments against playable alliance high elves have been seen and appreciated by blizz.

- - - Updated - - -

High Elves or no High Elves, I'm still going to play the game if I am having fun.

Unsubbing as some kind of protest makes no sense. Why would Blizzard cave in to a minority of players who had a hissyfit and quit the game?

High Elves isn't a make or break thing for me. I would like to see them playable on the Alliance, but I'm not staging protests or trying to get a rallying cry together.

And that's the difference between you and the vocal fanatics.

[Ielenia]

There has been one conflict between the Blood Elves and the Dalaran expatriates during Mists of Pandaria. The rest of the time they have been sniffy towards each other. You are right though it wasn't solely about feeding on living beings as that initial dispute was resolved. What is left is the political distinction between Alliance and Horde.

And eye color and culture, but the political distinction alone is technically enough considering it's enough a distinction to draw blood between both groups.

Pretending this is my opinion is simply an easy way for you to reject it.

Yours is as much an opinion.

Chris Metzen said Blood Elves are High Elves. Ion Hazzikostas said Blood Elves are High Elves.

False. The exact words were "blood elves are basically kind of are high elves." The wording is important, and I told you to keep that in mind.

The continual confusion between similar and identical is worrying, considering they are relatively straightforward concepts. To clarify, similar implies a certain amount of difference, identical means they are the same.

Highmountain Tauren and Tauren are SIMILAR to each other.

Lightforged Draenei and Draenei are SIMILAR to each other.

Blood Elves and Void Elves are SIMILAR to each other.

Blood Elves and High Elves are IDENTICAL.

Similar means there is enough of a difference that you can be an Allied race. Identical means the option is already available and if you wish to play it so badly, go ahead and do so.

Read above. By the developers' own words, the blood elves and high elves are similar, not identical.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves

But not all high elves are blood elves.

Don't worry, I'll keep repeating this fact you insist on ignoring.

That they did is immaterial,

I'm sorry, you don't get to sweep under the rug what they did in the past, especially considering no blood elf that I know of has ever regretted those times.

Blood Elves are the true High Elves of the franchise, as defined by Chris Metzen, Ion Hazzikostas and every in game and out of game piece of lore that I can find.

False. By their word, the blood elves are similar to high elves. And no piece of in-game lore that I know of says that blood elves ARE high elves, only that they were.

Blood Elves are the legacy of Quel'thalas, the inheritors of everything it was to be a High Elf.

False. High elves still exist, and they're as much the 'inheritors' of their lore and culture as blood elves.

[Obelisk Kai]

I did it back in November and have been advertising people to do it since, but if you're a High Elf supporter and you haven't unsubbed yet, it's about time.

If you remember, during Blizzcon last year, Alex and Patrick had a separate interview and said to stay passionate about High Elves and the discussion for them.



This is no longer Blizzard's outlook on the situation.



On the official forums, threads about High Elves are being locked, including the megathread. A GM response said that the problem reached Blizzard long ago, development is aware of it, and development addressed the issue in multiple Q&As. They don't want people providing feedback about High Elves anymore.

There is absolutely no reason a High Elf supporter should be giving Blizzard money at this point. It's clear that, if they care about feedback at all, it's the public eye variety -- and even then, they probably don't care about it much. The best place to provide feedback to Blizzard, even about High Elves, is primarily their Twitter and arguably their subreddit, though to a lesser extent since they have control of the moderation there. Tertiary discussion sites like MMO-C are probably still okay places to discuss, but I'd be willing to bet it's more akin to containment than an actual place for feedback, similar to the discords.

You can keep up the discussion if you want by hitting twitter, but other than that, I'd drop all other forms of feedback and I'd especially drop your sub. Money speaks more than anything and Blizzard's not putting out any fires till November. Unsub and stay unsubbed if Blizzcon doesn't provide what you want from the game. Sitting on the game complaining about High Elves and sitting in a containment site like MMO-C isn't doing you any favors, it's just shaving years off your life and wasting your time.

This is definitely interesting.

It's not definitive as I am the first person to say GM or CM comments cannot be taken as indicative of developer intent, but if they are truly shutting down High Elf discourse (or at least heavily restricting it) then that is an interesting development. Some passages are particularly striking.

'This is a highly polarizing issue. Development is definitely aware of it and has addressed it several times both on forums and in livestreamed Q&A's'

Also, forums in general tend to be somewhat of an echochamber, whether our own forums...MMOChampion etc. It's a cognitive bias to presume that because there's 10,000, 40,000 or 50,000 posts saying that they all want something, within those posts there's dissent on how to implement the change they all claim to want, as well as an equal or greater number of people saying they don't want something'.

My takeaways are as follows.

The acknowledgement that it is a highly polarizing issue means that the topic's persistence is not indicative of demand. Rather, the GM or CM acknowledges that the debate is very divisive. This means that as well as reading pro High Elf commentary, they are indeed taking on board anti High Elf commentary at the same time.

Development being aware of the issue is a restatement of what may seem to be obvious, that a topic this persistent is in fact know to the developers, but restating it is important. Some may have felt that the developers were still unaware of the strength of the demand and that more postings, more activity, more fanart was required. This does not seem to be the case. The developers already know about the demand and the strength of feeling, but they feel they have answered it.

The answer of course was that High Elves were ruled because Blood Elves are pretty much High Elves, but that Void Elves are a compromise option for Alliance players in lieu of Alliance High Elves.

'While 'Every voice matters' is one of our Core values, and we value people voicing their opinions, that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. It is quite literally impossible to please everyone.

Despite the apparent popularity of the topic, the GM is at pains to point out that they are not obligated to agree with what the topic is arguing for. Alliance High Elves were not added because they compromised the faction divide with the Horde. The pro High Elf argument has therefore has been two pronged, either arguing that Alliance High Elves are distinct enough that they don't actually compromise the faction divide or that the faction divide itself shouldn't matter.
Neither seems to have stood the greatest chance of success. Denying that Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves has never made sense as an approach considering the storyline.
The approach of arguing that the faction divide shouldn't matter as much was one that promised greater success. It was hypothesised that the end of BFA would see the end of the faction war and maybe even the end of the division between the factions, with Horde and Alliance players being allowed to group up for PVE content after all. Such an outcome would have allowed Blood Elves to group up with Dwarves and Humans. Interviews held with several developers in the past few months though have poured cold water on this notion however, with the importance of the faction divide to the game being restated by Ion who was resistant to the idea of allowing cross faction PVE grouping.

They seemingly won't agree to weaken the faction divide, nor will they agree that Alliance High Elves are distinct enough from Blood Elves to justify a separate Allied race.

So does this mean anything?

It's a CM/GM. I have maintained in the past that what they say is not equivalent to developer commentary and I stand by that. What this GM says is in no way completely authoritative, nor should it be regarded as word of god. Nor is it the end of the discussion...at least not here on MMO-Champion, it'll probably be snuffed out on the official forums. There is still the possibility of new skins for Void Elves, something I think would be a wrong move but which I think is a more likely outcome than a distinct Alliance High Elf race.

However, this employee is telling us a great deal about how the CM team view this topic and it is not flattering. I would agree with you Ninthbelief that these topics are more about containment than anything else.

While in public they will always be encouraging people to have their say, in truth they are probably tired of it.

[FlubberPuddy]

Snip

They actually don't say there that more High Elf threads can't be made. And a quick check on forums shows there's still a couple other ones up as of me writing this post.

The GM even states, "look to the Code of Conduct to help you determine whether a new thread should be created." In essence, leaving it up the players.

To me, it sounds more like someone who is tired of extra tickets for a niche topic (that's what all race requests are in the grand scheme of the game as it doesn't affect every single player like other game systems) and doesn't want to deal with it. Probably because they don't have a way to stop the mass-flagging. As 4 threads have stayed perpetually "locked" as immediately as the 24 hour lock expires, another is created relatively quickly.

So what you tell people about an issue that is literally affecting only 4 threads out of the probably 10,000s on the forums? Essentially "we don't have time to deal with this, you figure it out yourself".

These people are busy, we don't know what goes on behind the scenes. As he states he works for the Forums that means his insight is just as much as any CM (aka he cannot make official statements like High Elves won't happen), he is merely stating true facts about general forum things:

Yes they can't please everyone.

Yes they don't have to agree with every opinion.

Yes most forums are echo-chambers and it is cognitive bias to think something you're involved in has greater impact than it may actually have.

These are general forum realities though, nothing specific about High Elves, which can apply to many forum topics. The only thing specific is that it is a polarizing issue, as anyone can see that since no other race request gets as much vitriol going as HE threads. But that polarizing bit is stated before he delves into general forum facts.

[Alixie]

I did it back in November and have been advertising people to do it since, but if you're a High Elf supporter and you haven't unsubbed yet, it's about time.

I have been unsubbed for months. Not specifically because of High Elves, but because of the overall disregard and contempt for the Alliance side of their playerbase. And that the gameplay is boring garbage.

You can keep up the discussion if you want by hitting twitter, but other than that, I'd drop all other forms of feedback and I'd especially drop your sub. Money speaks more than anything and Blizzard's not putting out any fires till November. Unsub and stay unsubbed if Blizzcon doesn't provide what you want from the game. Sitting on the game complaining about High Elves and sitting in a containment site like MMO-C isn't doing you any favors, it's just shaving years off your life and wasting your time.

It shouldn't matter that they dont want high elf suggestions, they should care that trolls are abusing the flagging system to shut down any discussion on their forums. Blizz essentially supports brigading.

Id say even the haters should be concerned that people can just mass report and lock whatever topics they dont like (almost like a multiboxer can mass report to disrupt the game for others), but they are probably happy that Blizz condones this behavior and shut down all discussions about High Elves on the WoW forums.

Sitting on the game complaining about High Elves and sitting in a containment site like MMO-C isn't doing you any favors, it's just shaving years off your life and wasting your time.

This needs to repeated for the people of questionable mentality who spent years trying to shut down a containment thread in a video game.

[Obelisk Kai]

SNIP

Did you ever feel that the fact that any time anyone from Blizzard ever says anything about High Elves you have to rationalise it away might be indicative of something?

Caydiem...Chris Metzen...Ion Hazzikostas...this GM...

Not saying you are entirely wrong here, just offering food for thought. Even this guy seems to suggest that they are sick to the back teeth of the 'feedback' Holinka was apparently asking for...although Holinka was talking about Void Elves so he may not fit neatly into the discussion.

[Aldo Hawk]

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...er/19431/11224

And

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...on/182516/4144

And

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...on/148759/5797

And

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...ls/113178/7298

Al locked the same way, by a lot of community flags. With constant cycling of 24 hours until who the hell knows.

But hey it's a special case just when it's referring to HE right? Of course. You people will never stop disappointing me.

- - - Updated - - -

High Elves or no High Elves, I'm still going to play the game if I am having fun.

Unsubbing as some kind of protest makes no sense. Why would Blizzard cave in to a minority of players who had a hissyfit and quit the game?

High Elves isn't a make or break thing for me. I would like to see them playable on the Alliance, but I'm not staging protests or trying to get a rallying cry together.

Same here, I will be forever happy with my blood elf.

But nonetheless not having the HE is a shame since it's a part of the Alliance. Just not playable.

[FlubberPuddy]

Did you ever feel that the fact that any time anyone from Blizzard ever says anything about High Elves you have to rationalise it away might be indicative of something?

Caydiem...Chris Metzen...Ion Hazzikostas...this GM...

Not saying you are entirely wrong here, just offering food for thought. Even this guy seems to suggest that they are sick to the back teeth of the 'feedback' Holinka was apparently asking for...although Holinka was talking about Void Elves so he may not fit neatly into the discussion.

Afrasiabi was the one talking about feedback, not Holinka.

But anyways it’s not rationalizing an indication of anything other than to clarify that they are not saying to stop talking about High Elves being playable.

That’s it, that’s all I’m explaining, given the fact that some believe they’re “locking all High elf threads” which can be easily seen as untrue by a quick trip to the forums.

[Obelisk Kai]

If they were locking threads, it more than likely means Quel'dorei are coming sooner than later, and there's no more need for debate lol

So if a blue extends the thread, it means High Elves are coming (this was a pretty common response in early 2018)

If a blue comments in a thread, even if it is just a plea to keep the debate on track, it means High Elves are coming.

If the blues lock threads or hide threads or don't want to unflag threads it means High Elves are coming.

If the blues don't lock threads and allow debate to continue it means High Elves are coming.

This is some pretty amazing confirmation bias. If the blues take any action that means High Elves are coming, even if they take action that could be considered diametrically opposed to something done previously that was also taken to mean High Elves are coming.

Maybe it just means, as the GM/CM implied in his response, that they are done with the endless circular debate and would much prefer it to go away?

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But anyways it’s not rationalizing an indication of anything other than to clarify that they are not saying to stop talking about High Elves being playable.

That’s it, that’s all I’m explaining, given the fact that some believe they’re “locking all High elf threads” which can be easily seen as untrue by a quick trip to the forums.

They are locking High Elf threads though, or at least not interfering when automated systems lock them down. But that isn't the point.

The point is that this is yet another employee, another piece of evidence, that has to be rationalised away. It denies a pattern of intent.

Now he is only a CM/GM so he can't actually say anything of meaning on the topic itself. He can't determine whether Blizzard does Alliance High Elves or not and we do have the classic example of the CM who said Demon Hunters weren't planned when they were certainly in development in the building next door which demonstrates the limit of their knowledge.

What I find of interest is how his comments shed a light on something he is qualified to answer, how Blizzard views the pro High Elf campaign itself. It's a little peak behind the corporate mask of pretending all feedback is good feedback and we are listening.
It sounds to me as if this CM is saying the pro High Elf community made it's case and Blizzard has offered answers, clearly referring to the two answers Ion delivered via livestream in the past two years in this topic.
He says that no matter how great the number of posts, that forums themselves are echo chambers. He notes the huge opposition to the suggestion, as well as the divisions within the high elf community as to what is acceptable. He also notes Blizzard is not obligated to agree with you despite your passion/

In summary, the response cannot be seen as encouraging to pro High Elfers.

[matrix123mko]

Why are you so against them? That's what the Hell I wanna know.

He believes in faction differences which have to be preserved.

[Obelisk Kai]

Why are you so against them? That's what the Hell I wanna know.

In only one fantasy franchise are the group defined as High Elves aligned with traditional 'monster races' against Humans and Dwarves, this one. It was a brave and extremely original move on the part of Blizzard.
Allowing Alliance High Elves re-establishes the traditional Human, Dwarf and white elf trope that has been beaten to death and implies that the previous genre defying move was a mistake.
It means that those Alliance High Elves will claim to be the true High Elves. Making them the true High Elves undermines the Blood Elves as suddenly the Blood Elves are just another random group of Elves aligned with Orcs, something we see throughout fantasy.

Secondly, it grants the Alliance access to what is a core Horde race without having to be Horde. This is monstrously unfair to the Horde.
Faction diversity matters. Faction choice matters. Pandaren were bad enough but at least Blizzard appears to have recognised their error and not repeated it. Sharing a race with the Alliance that has been Horde for over a decade demolishes the boundary and makes a mockery of the two faction system.

So, two reasons. Preserving the identity of the Blood Elves as the true High Elves of the franchise and preserving the integrity of the Horde which should not be forced to share one of it's core races.

[Obelisk Kai]

I know I said I don't really give a damn anymore because I truly don't but what you are spewing is utter nonsense.

1) The Horde have access to what is essentially a clone of an Alliance race alrdy ie The Nightelves you even got similar colours, Refer to img below:



2) Silhouettes excuse is nonsense as the Alliance already have access to your precious Blood Elf silhouette through the Void Elves.

3) You say it would be monstrously unfair to the Horde may I refer you to point 1 how is that fair to the Alliance?

Remember kids all it boils down to is Blizz don't want to upset their favorite faction as they can be seen as the biggest bunch of crybabies over anything.

Yeah you keep posting this image. By my count that is the third time you've done so.

The problem of course with this is that you are arguing Nightborne are pretty much a clone of Night Elves. Now you've reached this conclusion by ignoring the vast lore differences between Nightborne and Night Elves which are explained in game.

You also downplay the physical changes in your image above because you a.) use a female, as the male Nightborne is considerably less muscular than a Night Elf b.) the image deliberately angles the Night Elf away to obscure the ear on the other side, which has a different shape c.) term the skin colours as 'similar', when they are in fact quite different. The above example takes the palest Nightborne skin and the palest Night Elf skin, rather than the more commonly seen Deep blues among the Nightborne or the pinks and purples among the Night Elves.

That's just the flaws in your example.

The real dishonesty is that you insist Night Elves =Nightborne and so the Horde got 'a clone of an Alliance race'. The problem of course is, if that is the case, then Void Elves are pretty much 'a clone of a Horde race' and the desire for Alliance High Elves has been met. But since you complain about Void Elves I figure that isn't the case at all.

You cannot argue that Night Elves and Nightborne are the exact same (and hence the Horde got an Alliance race) and then argue that Void Elves are not High Elves and that the Alliance didn't get a copy of a Horde race.

To be consistent in your argument, pick one approach.

As for the saltiness over faction favoritism, I can't help you if you don't wish to understand how giving an unaltered core race from one faction to the other isn't a problem. Frankly that they bent over backwards to give the Alliance the Void Elf variant still surprises me. And Nightborne going Horde are the consequence of that, a quid pro quo because nobody within the Horde spent the last decade begging for Night Elves or a type of Night Elf