1. #11661
    Quote Originally Posted by Fossil-Free View Post
    Elisande said High Elves have mixed with Humans, that is official lore.
    No, not really. At least not to the extend you seem to be implying it is.

    The only two high elves we know have mated with humans is Vereesa, and Alleria. Those are the only two we know are confirmed. Orphanages don't have half-elf children. So, for all we know, Alleria and Veressa are outliers.

    Elisande's sentence does not make it canon, however, as she could very easily have said that in the way she did to provoke Veressa and the high elves, attacking them on the fact they're exiles without a home.

  2. #11662
    Moderator Aucald's Avatar
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    It's fine to discuss the palette of skin tones available to the Elven races, but let's make sure we don't introduce the trapping of real-world racial politics or race identity to this thread. Keep it confined to the fictional universe of Warcraft, and Elves specifically.
    "We're more of the love, blood, and rhetoric school. Well, we can do you blood and love without the rhetoric, and we can do you blood and rhetoric without the love, and we can do you all three concurrent or consecutive. But we can't give you love and rhetoric without the blood. Blood is compulsory. They're all blood, you see." ― Tom Stoppard, Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead

  3. #11663
    Quote Originally Posted by Magnagarde View Post
    My "preoccupation", at least when it comes to Warcraft and the various beings present in the game's universe, is to point out when something is untrue to it's original, true depiction.

    Don't hide your inaccurate fanart that has zero consistency with Warcraft's universe behind lowkey jibes about me being racist. It's inaccurate, it's inconsistent and the main point of inaccuracy and inconsistency is the high elves' skin color. The facial anatomy is partially off too. It has "fanart value", but can easily draw flak over its inconsistencies.

    Those are supposed to be Warcraft's high elves with dark skin and such high elves don't exist. I really dig(no pun intended) Dark Iron dwarves, but I sure would point out if you made fanart of a black Kurdran Wildhammer or a white Dagran Thaurissan. The armor is decently accurate, so why would I ponder on that? I

    The fact that you have to resort to a lowkey racism-hinting card, instead of addressing the core issue of your inaccurate fanart and its complete inconsistency with what it is supposedly meant to represent, shows how you are unable to take criticism after pointedly putting your stuff out there for readers to judge. Instead of doing that, you should reckognize that it is very inaccurate.
    Dark Skinned High Elves Do exist in Lore, btw.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Devi

    She's from an alternative timeline, but her dark skin color is not remarked as something exceptional, or odd. Not even a hint of a mixed parentage, she's just presented as a dark skinned elf.

    But I dunno man, of all the hills to die on "there are no dark skinned elves" is just such a worthless one , specially when it's just me drawing my character, and it's like I'm personally offending you with the "inaccuracy" and "inconsistency"

    Regardless of such, I'd like to see expanded skin tones for every race, and in terms of retcons it's far lower than much more egregious changes, specially when skin tone doesn't have to carry any sociocultural weight in-group in azeroth, thus existing as an aesthetic choice. If all the answer you have to the idea of more expansive skin tone selection is "is inaccurate to the lore" then you both lack imagination and are sweeping under the carpet all the far more drastic changes in lore we have already

    But again, weird hill to die on.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto is stooopid View Post
    Doesn’t environment shape skin color in the real world? It has something to do with vitamin D and sun exposure. Humans need a certain amount of vitamin D, not enough is bad and too much is bad too. Sun exposure allows for the production of Vitamin D.

    So I’m given to understand that people’s in the north lost skin pigmentation over thousands of years to allow their bodies to absorb all the sun they could get because there’s precious little of it in places like Northern Europe and Russia.

    Meanwhile people who settled or stayed in areas close to the equator that get tons of sunlight especially places with little tree cover developed or retained darker skin so as not to produce too much Vitamin D.

    At least that’s how it was explained to me.


    So all that’s required to have dark skinned Elves is for any group of Elves to have lived in an area with lots of sun n for a long time. And that’s without fantasy or magic entering into the discussion at all.
    Not necessarily. The inuit people live on the artic and have dark skin; several groups of non european lineage that live far south or north have dark skin tones, so it's less of an evolutionary rule (fair skin to get vitamin d) and more of a possibility.

    And specifically for the World of Warcraft, it really comes down to how sunlight could have affected the diverse range of Kaldorei skin, specially kaldorei living on different climates given how expansive the Kaldorei empire was.

    When it comes to it, the reasons why high elves are fair skinned aren't more deeper than Warcraft taking their cues from mainstream Lotro inspired Fantasy.

    Knowing the Blizz devs, wouldn't surprise me that if we ever got dark skinned elves it would be from an ecuatorian island lodge previously undisturbed, so who knows heh.

  4. #11664
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Several of those suggestions don't seem to offer much beyond what an already available option provides to the playerbase, for example Wildhammer are not a huge leap from Bronzebeard and definitely not in the same league as Dark Irons. Some, like the Broken, are completely viable.

    However, all these suggestions have in common is that the proposed allied race is on the same faction as the parent race, therefore they do not compromise any sense of faction identity. So while I might feel the Wildhammer would be a bit of a waste of a slot, it's no skin off my nose if Alliance players want to agitate for it and I wish them luck in their endeavours.
    So I'm assuming if/when Blizzard introduces cross-faction play as it's been hinted at and/or rumored for next expansion, you're going to react like this?


  5. #11665
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Several of those suggestions don't seem to offer much beyond what an already available option provides to the playerbase, for example Wildhammer are not a huge leap from Bronzebeard and definitely not in the same league as Dark Irons. Some, like the Broken, are completely viable.

    However, all these suggestions have in common is that the proposed allied race is on the same faction as the parent race, therefore they do not compromise any sense of faction identity. So while I might feel the Wildhammer would be a bit of a waste of a slot, it's no skin off my nose if Alliance players want to agitate for it and I wish them luck in their endeavours.
    Well I hate to break it to you, but this is irrelevant since the addition of Void Elves and Nightborne.

  6. #11666
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    So I'm assuming if/when Blizzard introduces cross-faction play as it's been hinted at and/or rumored for next expansion, you're going to react like this?

    Whilst that may be the fantasy of some pro High Elfers, no. The weakening of faction restrictions will be a matter of regret, however it will be something applied to all races within the game at the same time which will not single out Alliance High Elves for special treatment. Quite the contrary, under this system it would be clear that anyone who wished to play a traditional High Elf within the Alliance would be expected to create a Blood Elf for that purpose.

    Besides, I am not convinced this is where thing are actually going. It is definitely possible, and if it is happening the groundwork is being laid, but it doesn't chime at all with an interview earlier this year where Ion was asked if there would be a PVE version of mercenary mode to allow Alliance and Horde to work together in PVE content, i.e the entire point of cross-faction play, and he was seemingly very forthright that this was not going to happen. He could have been lying, or what will actually happen will conform to the letter of what he said if not the spirit, but we will know in 81 and a half days and to give a sense of just how quick that will pass, 81 days ago was the EU elections.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-08-12 at 07:41 AM.

  7. #11667
    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    So I'm assuming if/when Blizzard introduces cross-faction play as it's been hinted at and/or rumored for next expansion, you're going to react like this? [SNIP]
    I would not care. I just want people to stop pretending that the High Elf NPCs in the game are somehow representative of their whole population, while the huge majority is called Blood Elves. I also want to point out that adding High Elves would only do a minor service to the die hard fans and wasting an Allied Race slot which could be put to a much better use. I would love to get Jinju for the Alliance instead. This would be a very cool and interesting addition, while High Elves ... are quite boring.

    Neverwinter had 2 sorts of "High Elves" races, one added later than the other, with only minor differences in the colour of hair and such. I did not feel that they have been that much of an enrichment to the game. Genasi or Dragonborn would have had a much greater impact for me. Same goes for the High Elves. I find Night Elves, Blood Elves, Nightborne and Void Elves all more interesting than High Elves.

    Also, we already have 4 Elven races in the game. This is enough. And it comes from a huge Elf fan, btw. Most of my characters belong to one of these races, followed by Trolls.

    I think that the game is better off with High Elves staying in their NPC role.

  8. #11668
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fossil-Free View Post
    Well I hate to break it to you, but this is irrelevant since the addition of Void Elves and Nightborne.
    Nightborne and Void Elves are thematically opposed to Night Elves and Blood Elves. Nightborne are arcane wielding, urbane city elves. Night Elves are druidic, rustic arboreal elves. Thematically, the Nightborne are far closer to the Blood Elves than they are to the Night Elves, which is appropriate given the common origin the Nightborne and Blood Elves share as Highborne within the Night Elf Empire. Nightborne do not infringe on the theme of the Night Elves.

    Void Elves are twisted elves orientated around the shadow. Blood Elves, and by extension Alliance High Elves who are the same people, are orientated around the light. The shadow and the light are in permanent opposition to each other and are thematic polar opposites.
    The Void Elves can be accused of picking up the old Blood Elf theme of messing with dangerous magic, except in this case they substituted the shadow for the fel, but the key term in that statement is 'old'. Blood Elves no longer mess with dangerous magics, that was an aberrant period in their history between the destruction and restoration of the Sunwell that has now concluded and left the Blood Elves being nothing more than traditional High Elves with a new adjective and new political allegiances. The Void Elves have therefore appropriated a discarded theme for themselves, and that is fine.

    But both groups are radically different from their parents in terms of theme and look and do not undermine the identity of their respective factions as a result. Nor do they serve as excuses to add further options to the Alliance and Horde that are closer to the original parents. The thematic distance of both groups from their parents was deliberate, not incidental.

  9. #11669
    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Dark Skinned High Elves Do exist in Lore, btw.

    https://wow.gamepedia.com/Devi

    She's from an alternative timeline, but her dark skin color is not remarked as something exceptional, or odd. Not even a hint of a mixed parentage, she's just presented as a dark skinned elf.

    But I dunno man, of all the hills to die on "there are no dark skinned elves" is just such a worthless one , specially when it's just me drawing my character, and it's like I'm personally offending you with the "inaccuracy" and "inconsistency"

    Regardless of such, I'd like to see expanded skin tones for every race, and in terms of retcons it's far lower than much more egregious changes, specially when skin tone doesn't have to carry any sociocultural weight in-group in azeroth, thus existing as an aesthetic choice. If all the answer you have to the idea of more expansive skin tone selection is "is inaccurate to the lore" then you both lack imagination and are sweeping under the carpet all the far more drastic changes in lore we have already

    But again, weird hill to die on.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Not necessarily. The inuit people live on the artic and have dark skin; several groups of non european lineage that live far south or north have dark skin tones, so it's less of an evolutionary rule (fair skin to get vitamin d) and more of a possibility.

    And specifically for the World of Warcraft, it really comes down to how sunlight could have affected the diverse range of Kaldorei skin, specially kaldorei living on different climates given how expansive the Kaldorei empire was.

    When it comes to it, the reasons why high elves are fair skinned aren't more deeper than Warcraft taking their cues from mainstream Lotro inspired Fantasy.

    Knowing the Blizz devs, wouldn't surprise me that if we ever got dark skinned elves it would be from an ecuatorian island lodge previously undisturbed, so who knows heh.
    Apparently Vitamin D deficiency is a problem in many Inuit communities. Especially those who live inland and have strayed away from traditional Inuit diets that were rich in Vitamin D foods.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417586/

  10. #11670
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    I would not care. I just want people to stop pretending that the High Elf NPCs in the game are somehow representative of their whole population,
    What an invent.

    No, High elves represent... Surprise! High elves.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    I also want to point out that adding High Elves would only do a minor service to the die hard fans and wasting an Allied Race slot which could be put to a much better use.
    Like Lightforged? Kul'tirans?

    Look, it's fine that you have preferences, but a 'finite' (strange concept) allied race slot can't have a 'better use' than to deliver what players want, the number of people wanting X thing only matter to those who are against that X. I'm sorry that your perception is not a truth, you call it garbage and waste. It isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    I would love to get Jinju for the Alliance instead. This would be a very cool and interesting addition, while High Elves ... are quite boring.
    What are you doing in this thread then? Go and open a Jinyu thread to talk about concepts for it or whatever, instead of being an obnoxious dead weight in here.

    Also, again, the world does not revolve around you. High elves are boring. For you.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    I find Night Elves, Blood Elves, Nightborne and Void Elves all more interesting than High Elves.
    I find Blood elves more interesting to play than Tauren.

    You are not gonna see me shitting on Tauren. Why? Because I am not a piece of trash and I am playing my Blood elves thank you very much.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Also, we already have 4 Elven races in the game.
    How many of them are left? 2? 3? WOW what a quantity, such bloaty, very numbery!

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    This is enough. And it comes from a huge Elf fan, btw. Most of my characters belong to one of these races, followed by Trolls.
    Good for you. However, 'enought' is not an empirical quantity I'm affraid. A good suggestion that you should take into account is to enjoy what you have, and realise how little this request affect you.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    I think that the game is better off with High Elves staying in their NPC role.
    And I think High elves are a piece of the Alliance that is lacking for players to play, as much as Dark Iron Dwarves were, as much as Mag'har Orcs were (not AU but whatever...).

    It's availability can only enrich.
    Last edited by Aldo Hawk; 2019-08-12 at 10:02 AM.

  11. #11671
    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto is stooopid View Post
    Apparently Vitamin D deficiency is a problem in many Inuit communities. Especially those who live inland and have strayed away from traditional Inuit diets that were rich in Vitamin D foods.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417586/
    Traditionally, they received most of their vitamin D from their hunting diet. And their skin is darker at a latitude where it should be lighter due to the reflection of UV rays off the snow and ice fields, as well as being on the water which also reflects a good deal as well. They require a greater intake of vitamin D than their ice-free and land-dwelling neighbors to the south (with light skin), which is obtained through the seals and other marine mammals they hunt. Of course, much of this has been rapidly changing with modernization, as you alluded to.

    This means that High Elves from somewhere really icy and who spend a lot of time on the water would probably also have dark skin.

  12. #11672
    Quote Originally Posted by Fossil-Free View Post
    Traditionally, they received most of their vitamin D from their hunting diet. And their skin is darker at a latitude where it should be lighter due to the reflection of UV rays off the snow and ice fields, as well as being on the water which also reflects a good deal as well. They require a greater intake of vitamin D than their ice-free and land-dwelling neighbors to the south (with light skin), which is obtained through the seals and other marine mammals they hunt. Of course, much of this has been rapidly changing with modernization, as you alluded to.

    This means that High Elves from somewhere really icy and who spend a lot of time on the water would probably also have dark skin.
    Now we only need to find ones and somehow fit them into Silver Covenant.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  13. #11673
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    Void Elves are twisted elves orientated around the shadow. Blood Elves, and by extension Alliance High Elves who are the same people, are orientated around the light.
    I'm not sure I've seen many examples to say that Alliance High Elves "by extension" are also oriented around the light. Often we see far far more Alliance High Elves as either Mages or Rangers of sorts. There is a large list of Alliance High Elf NPCs and very few are shown to be members of the light or oriented around the light. Can you back that comment up with enough examples?

    As opposed to Blood Elves who pretty much have Light become the forefront of their society.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    Now we only need to find ones and somehow fit them into Silver Covenant.
    Time to head north of Northrend then!

  14. #11674
    Quote Originally Posted by Naruto is stooopid View Post
    Apparently Vitamin D deficiency is a problem in many Inuit communities. Especially those who live inland and have strayed away from traditional Inuit diets that were rich in Vitamin D foods.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3417586/
    See? They adapted to Vitamin D rich foods and only now it has become an issue as that diet has changed. But that's the point, adaptation is contextual by nature.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'm not sure I've seen many examples to say that Alliance High Elves "by extension" are also oriented around the light. Often we see far far more Alliance High Elves as either Mages or Rangers of sorts. There is a large list of Alliance High Elf NPCs and very few are shown to be members of the light or oriented around the light. Can you back that comment up with enough examples?

    As opposed to Blood Elves who pretty much have Light become the forefront of their society.
    Also let's not obviate the fact that trying to make a whole race of fit into one thematic is kinda... lame. Yes, AR are kinda lame, but they manage on thin ice because they are already "sects" of more comprehensive and complex races.

    Saying that "Blood Elves and by extension High Elves are orientated around the light" is as silly as saying that Humans are on the same level. Even when the light has become the forefront of Belven society it's still a tapestry of different ideologies. This reduction is pointless.

    And as we know, this reduction only applies to the alliance Allied Races (LF and VE) HMT and Nighthborne get to be complex societies hahaha.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    Time to head north of Northrend then!
    Time for Snow Elves hell yes

  15. #11675
    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'm not sure I've seen many examples to say that Alliance High Elves "by extension" are also oriented around the light. Often we see far far more Alliance High Elves as either Mages or Rangers of sorts. There is a large list of Alliance High Elf NPCs and very few are shown to be members of the light or oriented around the light. Can you back that comment up with enough examples?

    As opposed to Blood Elves who pretty much have Light become the forefront of their society.
    Only to paladins and priests. They are still not a majority, even though Blizzard really tries to retcon blood elves into light elves. I really hope we will see magisters being the focus soon.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by MyWholeLifeIsThunder View Post
    Saying that "Blood Elves and by extension High Elves are orientated around the light" is as silly as saying that Humans are on the same level. Even when the light has become the forefront of Belven society it's still a tapestry of different ideologies. This reduction is pointless.
    It is only the priest part. We don't even know how popular the priests are in their society. The huge problem is that Blizzard really wants to put emphasis on contrast between them and void elves.
    And as we know, this reduction only applies to the alliance Allied Races (LF and VE) HMT and Nighthborne get to be complex societies hahaha.
    Lightforged Draenei are not only light users but also formidable magi. Void elves are the only one class so far.
    Time for Snow Elves hell yes
    The problem is that they will not be high elves anymore.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  16. #11676
    Quote Originally Posted by Aldo Hawk View Post
    What an invent.

    No, High elves represent... Surprise! High elves.


    Like Lightforged? Kul'tirans?

    Look, it's fine that you have preferences, but a 'finite' (strange concept) allied race slot can't have a 'better use' than to deliver what players want, the number of people wanting X thing only matter to those who are against that X. I'm sorry that your perception is not a truth, you call it garbage and waste. It isn't.


    What are you doing in this thread then? Go and open a Jinyu thread to talk about concepts for it or whatever, instead of being an obnoxious dead weight in here.

    Also, again, the world does not revolve around you. High elves are boring. For you.


    I find Blood elves more interesting to play than Tauren.

    You are not gonna see me shitting on Tauren. Why? Because I am not a piece of trash and I am playing my Blood elves thank you very much.


    How many of them are left? 2? 3? WOW what a quantity, such bloaty, very numbery!


    Good for you. However, 'enought' is not an empirical quantity I'm affraid. A good suggestion that you should take into account is to enjoy what you have, and realise how little this request affect you.


    And I think High elves are a piece of the Alliance that is lacking for players to play, as much as Dark Iron Dwarves were, as much as Mag'har Orcs were (not AU but whatever...).

    It's availability can only enrich.
    Sorry, do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem? Blizzard defined that the High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves after the Scourge almost wiped out their homeland. And some dissidents kept the old moniker because they did not want to participate in draining mana from living creatures and using Fel. This is canon. Dissidents have no say in Thallasian matters anymore, they can be grateful that they have been allowed to visit the Sunwell. Even a monarch in exile would have no say, if the new government of a country is backed up by the populace. And this is the case. The majority has decided. Your High Elf minority can go and be servants of the Alliance, but only as NPCs.

    Beside that, I would expect many to follow Allerias example and becoming Void Elves. Problem solved, move on. Dinosaurs got extinct, let's do the same with High Elves.
    Last edited by scubi666stacy; 2019-08-13 at 12:51 PM.

  17. #11677
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I'm not sure I've seen many examples to say that Alliance High Elves "by extension" are also oriented around the light. Often we see far far more Alliance High Elves as either Mages or Rangers of sorts. There is a large list of Alliance High Elf NPCs and very few are shown to be members of the light or oriented around the light. Can you back that comment up with enough examples?

    As opposed to Blood Elves who pretty much have Light become the forefront of their society.
    There aren't many examples because there aren't many Alliance High Elves.

    If we wish to speculate, the reasons that Alliance High Elves tend to be either Mages or Hunters is self evident. They are either members of the Kirin Tor who elected to remain in the city rather than return with Kael to Silvermoon or travel with Jaina to Kalimdor following the evacuation...or they are the former Farstriders who were kicked out of Silvermoon (and thus for a time accepted the change to Blood Elves) for refusing to embrace the new practices promulgated by Rommath and who then mostly relocated to Dalaran at Veressa's urging.

    But it doesn't matter if there are only a few Priests and Paladins among them, that isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about the metaphysical connection every high elf shares with the Sunwell, an infinite source of holy (and arcane) based energy that sates the addiction every single one of them has. The light is now one of the defining aspects of the entire race.

    After all, the void is a defining aspect of what a Void Elf is, yet you do not have to be a Shadow Priest to realize that fully. The Void is as defining for a Void Elf Monk as it is for a Void Elf shadow priest. Similarly, you don't have to be a Priest Paladin among the Blood/Alliance High Elves to be defined by the light. Mages and hunters will find it as defining for them as well, in a similar fashion to how the light is still central to lightforged draenei mages or lightforged draenei hunters despite not being light wielding classes.

    As Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves share the same connection to the light, they share the same destiny.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2019-08-13 at 09:51 AM.

  18. #11678
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    But it doesn't matter if there are only a few Priests and Paladins among them, that isn't what I am talking about. I am talking about the metaphysical connection every high elf shares with the Sunwell, an infinite source of holy (and arcane) based energy that sates the addiction every single one of them has. The light is now one of the defining aspects of the entire race.

    After all, the void is a defining aspect of what a Void Elf is, yet you do not have to be a Shadow Priest to realize that fully. The Void is as defining for a Void Elf Monk as it is for a Void Elf shadow priest. Similarly, you don't have to be a Priest Paladin among the Blood/Alliance High Elves to be defined by the light. Mages and hunters will find it as defining for them as well, in a similar fashion to how the light is still central to lightforged draenei mages or lightforged draenei hunters despite not being light wielding classes.

    As Blood Elves and Alliance High Elves share the same connection to the light, they share the same destiny.
    I see the angle where you're coming from but I believe this opinion of yours isn't shared by very many, especially not the developers. Ion himself even stated the two Thalassian groups have "a different backstory in terms of their relationship to the magic in the Sunwell."

    The examples you use of Void Elves doesn't work because it is very frank and "in your face" that the Void is the defining aspect of this entire "race". It is even in their namesake. This isn't the case for Blood Elves and less so even for High Elves. There isn't similarity in the example you're using.

    You're the only one I've seen that continues to iterate High Elves are affected exactly the same way by the Sunwell when we have developer commentary, the warcraft encyclopedia which you tout as continued canon as well, and in-game differences between the two Thalassian groups that show the Sunwell doesn't play nor has a prominent role to the High Elves.

    1) Ion saying their different backstory in terms of relationship to Sunwell
    2) In-game evidence they don't revere Sunwell as much through different broadcast text, rarely if ever being seen around the Sunwell, not praising it like the Blood Elves do etc etc.

    Your example would be like trying to say that the Night Elves are an Arcane based society even if they're mostly druids/priests and have very many nature/holy themes throughout various media just because they are all defined by having been transformed by the Well of Eternity.

    A more apt example would be the comparison with both Draenei and Lightforged Draenei. No one will question either groups' reverence of the Light within its society because both groups clearly show and manifest that theme.

    TL;DR: I can see where your opinion comes from, I don't agree with it and don't believe it's an opinion a majority hold. Look above for the reasoning.

  19. #11679
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Sorry, do you have some kind of reading comprehension problem?
    Eksdee 10/10 zzuper funni

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Blizzard defined that the High Elves renamed themselves Blood Elves after the Scourge almost wiped out their homeland.
    Hot news.

    Also irrelevant news.

    High elves are not Blood elves, for the 50.000th time.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    And some dissidents kept the old moniker because they did not want to participate in draining mana from living creatures and using Fel.
    They also share the way they approach the light and their good relationship with the Alliance.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    This is canon.
    No 1 is denying that but yeah if saying it makes you feel comfortable you do you.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Dissidents have no say in Thallasian matters anymore, they can be grateful that they have been allowed to visit the Sunwell.
    For what do they need to have a say in Quel'thalas matters? (Nice try but thalassians are not all united the way you imply)

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Your High Elf minority can go and be servants of the Alliance, but only as NPCs.
    Nah it's better if players get to play as them.

    Quote Originally Posted by scubi666stacy View Post
    Beside that, I would expect many to follow Allerias example and becoming Void Elves. Problem solved, move on. Dinosaurs got extinct, let's do the same with High Elves.
    Why.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FlubberPuddy View Post
    I see the angle where you're coming from but I believe this opinion of yours isn't shared by very many, especially not the developers. Ion himself even stated the two Thalassian groups have "a different backstory in terms of their relationship to the magic in the Sunwell."

    The examples you use of Void Elves doesn't work because it is very frank and "in your face" that the Void is the defining aspect of this entire "race". It is even in their namesake. This isn't the case for Blood Elves and less so even for High Elves. There isn't similarity in the example you're using.

    You're the only one I've seen that continues to iterate High Elves are affected exactly the same way by the Sunwell when we have developer commentary, the warcraft encyclopedia which you tout as continued canon as well, and in-game differences between the two Thalassian groups that show the Sunwell doesn't play nor has a prominent role to the High Elves.

    1) Ion saying their different backstory in terms of relationship to Sunwell
    2) In-game evidence they don't revere Sunwell as much through different broadcast text, rarely if ever being seen around the Sunwell, not praising it like the Blood Elves do etc etc.

    Your example would be like trying to say that the Night Elves are an Arcane based society even if they're mostly druids/priests and have very many nature/holy themes throughout various media just because they are all defined by having been transformed by the Well of Eternity.

    A more apt example would be the comparison with both Draenei and Lightforged Draenei. No one will question either groups' reverence of the Light within its society because both groups clearly show and manifest that theme.

    TL;DR: I can see where your opinion comes from, I don't agree with it and don't believe it's an opinion a majority hold. Look above for the reasoning.

    If we have to parse Ion's words exactly, then firstly context. This line comes from the April 26th 2018 Q and A and was the opening part of the response where he listed a few differences with the ultimate point being these few differences were irrelevant as points of differentiation.

    Secondly I believe the sentence he uses was "slightly different backstory in terms of their relationship with magic and the Sunwell" rather than 'a different backstory in terms of their relationship to the magic in the Sunwell." The changes seem small, but the change the entire context of the line. As you originally wrote it it implies that the he was taking about one relationship, with the magic in the sunwell, rather than what he was actually saying, that there was a slightly different relationship with magic and a slightly different relationship with the sunwell. In other words, two distinct relationships.

    The slightly different relationship with magic is clearly a reference to the philosophical divide that underpinned the original split. The slightly different relationship with the Sunwell is trickier to pin down, but we know from 'In the Shadow of the Sun' that all High Elves felt their connection to the Sunwell restored and that it felt different as a result of being a Holy and arcane energy source, rather than just a holy energy source. The use of the adjective 'slightly' however qualifies that whatever the difference is between how Alliance High Elves and Blood Elves relate to the Sunwell, it is not profound nor of much note.

    The above examination shows that the first point you listed, Ion's quote, is the byproduct of you mishearing him.

    In game evidence is limited given the few Alliance High Elves that remain. However, Alliance High Elves use the sunwell to sate their addiction as much as Blood Elves do which In the Shadow of the Sun proved.

    Attempting to argue that Alliance High Elves have a profoundly different relationship with the Sunwell seems to be motivated by an attempt to prove they are a completely different group than the Blood Elves. At best, we can speculate what their emotional relationship to it is. They hold the Sunwell in equal reverence as the Blood Elves do, as we saw from the pilgrims during the Quel'Delar storyline. They maybe more ashamed of their addiction as they live among Humans and other races who now know of and look down upon their dependence on magic (thanks to the Night Elves letting the Alliance know) and thus what the Sunwell represents, but that is speculation.

    What cannot be changed is biology, or at least it cannot be changed without an outside force causing a change. As unaltered thalassian elves, Alliance High Elves have an addiction to magic. That addiction evolved in response to a never ending font of energy provided by the Sunwell. The loss of the Sunwell led them to a period where they had to cope without it, but it's restoration means their addiction is once again sated.

    The Sunwell is stated to be provoking the changes among the Blood Elves that allows them to have golden eyes. This option is not limited to Paladins or Priests but to all classes, even Warlocks, with the only exception being Demon Hunters and I think Death Knights and the reasons for that are unique to those classes. As such, even though Priests and Paladins are not too numerous among Alliance High Elves, that is irrelevant, they are connected to the Sunwell and thus subject to the physiological changes it is provoking throughout the entire High Elf race (with the extremely likely exception of Void Elves).

    Blizzard did not decide to begin accentuating the influence of the light within the Blood Elves at this point by accident. It was clearly an attempt to draw a dichotomy between the light based Blood Elves and the void focused Void Elves , a genuine contrast in other words. Alliance High Elves, as unaltered thalassian elves, are along for the ride with the Blood Elves.

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