Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Hallowseve17]

I've said this before, but if the race has been allied with the Alliance or Horde in the past, they SHOULD be playable. People can argue and say races like High Elves, Wildhammer Dwarves, Broken, Furbolg, Jinyu, Ogres, Taunka, Forest Trolls, Undead Elves, Hozen, etcetera are mere "flavor NPCs", but you can't take away the fact that they play a role in their respective faction's story, no matter how minor a role they may play.

Allied Races are chosen based on their relevance in the ongoing narrative. If they ever revamp Azeroth, these already established "allied races" can be made playable and they should. People are always going on about Blood Elves looking identical to High Elves, which is blatantly true. However, the story has emphasized a political difference between the two, just like the Tushui and Huojin Pandaren. Also, people say there's no way to make High Elves different from Blood Elves. That's preposterous. Look at all forms of media you consume; they all have stories, stories that are constantly evolving.

Who's says in the future Blizzard can't write the High Elves differently? All that's needed is a story that has Alleria and Vereesa Windrunner coming together to unify their scattered people. Cliche, I know, but it can be done. Then, from there they can give playable High Elves a slightly different appearance, after all Void Elves are really only different from Blood Elves because of their blue/purple skin, their void powers, and occasional tentacles. They also gave the Void Elves slightly different hairstyles, and remember, Void Elves are a flavor of Blood Elf. You essentially apply this to High Elves, give them some tattoos, and boom, you've got a slightly unique Allied Race.

The main point of all this is that more options equals a more diverse and immersive world. We're all entitled to our own opinions, after all and everybody's is valid. Honestly, I'll take High Elves in any capacity (my main is a Blood Elf, so spare me the "play Horde" comments), whether they are made into an Allied Race or added as Void Elf customization options; we don't know how the next generation of Void Elves are going to be made anyway. Once again, for me, I welcome any new playable races or customization options because it enhances the world and the overall story. You can never have too many options, right?

P.S. Grimtotem are a split people - there are those allied with Magatha and those allied with the Horde under the leadership of Jevan "Stormsong" Grimtotem. Many people tend to forget this important piece of information. Source: The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm. And yes, they are originally from Mulgore, we all know that.

[FlubberPuddy]

Just want to also chime in real quick and say if Nightborne from Night Elf differentiation is enough to have an Allied Race then so can Alliance High Elves be modified in such a way to be similar but different to Blood Elves.

Nightborne are essentially more leaner Night Elves, they are more leaner purple elves. That's the visual difference between the two and both are playable race options despite both being purple elves. Because the modification of the body's proportions is what lent to their difference being cemented.

We see this as well with the now playable Kul Tirans and Zandalari Trolls as well.

Interestingly enough Void Elves do not follow this, neither do Mag'har, Dark Irons, Lightforged Draenei, and Highmountain Tauren.

Therefore we can see that a variance in body modification is neither necessary yet also sufficient enough to make a different playable option.

This is why so many pro-High Elf AR have come up with the various body modifications that keep in line with what Alliance High Elves are.

A Void Elf is not an Alliance High Elf, a Void Elf can never be an Alliance High Elf because the Alliance High Elf look/theme/story are all specific to characters such as Vereesa, the Silver Covenant, the Highvale Elves, and those at Allerian Stronghold in Outland.

A Void Elf always, always began previously as a Blood Elf of Silvermoon who followed Umbric as part of his research group. You are told this if you speak to Umbric as a Void Elf player. Every playable Void Elf was once part of the Horde as a Blood Elf, despite not liking it. Every playable Void Elf player can go ahead and shut their ears going "lalala I don't care/never spoke to Umbric/read him saying that" that doesn't change this as being the fact that it is, just as Moorgard explained how they're going to handle Golden Eyes on Blood Elf NPCs despite whatever story the player wishes to make for their own character.

And a Blood Elf isn't an Alliance High Elf for obvious reasons that don't need to be rehashed.

Therefore despite having two playable options of Thalassian Elves, the Alliance High Elves still carry specific looks/themes/story that is their own and unplayable. This is exactly the same as Wildhammer Dwarves for instance, or Forest Trolls.

No person would be correct in pointing someone to play Wildhammer Dwarves by selecting Bronzebeards any more than those who tell others they can play Alliance High Elves by pointing to playing a Void Elf or Blood Elf.

At this point, with Allied Races and the variations we have now, it's not amount just playing a Dwarf, a Human, an Elf, a Troll, a Tauren, an Orc, etc. Race doesn't matter, people want the specific groups that carry with them specific themes/looks/story.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Then, however, we create different problem. Why don't blood elves have this skin colour?

I mean I would just add darker skin tones on Blood Elves too, again I feel it's just one of those simple and unobtrusive retcons. I'm all for more skin tones for every race.

Yes, it would be interesting. However, I think we also need a reason to make them choose Veressa over Lor'themar.

It could be as easy as who gets to them first; they would control the version of the facts. It could be a group Vereesa has been in contact for years already, painting the BE's on a bad light.

I ask again, would you like to conceptualise "arctic high elves" with me? You know, just for fun.

No thank you, already too much stuff on my plate. Hope you understand.

[Ielenia]

And I will keep going back to the fundamental difference between the Void Elves and those other propositions. That the differences between the Void Elves and the Blood Elves are non replicable in lore. You cannot be a tentacled, blue skinned Blood Elf. Nor can you be a fair skinned, blonde haired Void Elf. The suggestions offered by the pro High Elf community always come down to tattoos or freaky hairstyles, none of which is off limits to a Blood Elf.

This is a blatantly false statement. Void elves are "tentacled, blue skinned blood elves." They literally are. As for being "replicable in the lore", this is where you contradict yourself. Because your argument to support the idea that void elves can "increase their numbers" by converting other thalassian elves into void elves literally claims that the process is not only "replicable in lore", but is being actually replicated right now, as the void elf numbers increase, as the number of "tentacled, blue skinned blood elves" increase.

[matrix123mko]

I mean I would just add darker skin tones on Blood Elves too, again I feel it's just one of those simple and unobtrusive retcons. I'm all for more skin tones for every race.

I thought the idea was to make it unique to high elves. If not, it is okay. Yes, it is totally acceptable.

It could be as easy as who gets to them first; they would control the version of the facts. It could be a group Vereesa has been in contact for years already, painting the BE's on a bad light.

In fact, Alleria is Alliance because Veressa got to her first. If she was to talk with Sylvanas, the story would look different.

No thank you, already too much stuff on my plate. Hope you understand.

I understand it more than you even think. Okay. I will do my things an you will do yours. I am looking for your new content then.

[Obelisk Kai]

This is a blatantly false statement. Void elves are "tentacled, blue skinned blood elves." They literally are. As for being "replicable in the lore", this is where you contradict yourself. Because your argument to support the idea that void elves can "increase their numbers" by converting other thalassian elves into void elves literally claims that the process is not only "replicable in lore", but is being actually replicated right now, as the void elf numbers increase, as the number of "tentacled, blue skinned blood elves" increase.

If I have to go over the entire statement you've grabbed out of context to show you how you've misinterpreted it, I will.

Void Elves WERE Blood Elves, but Void Elves are NOW Void Elves. You cannot simultaneously be a Blood Elf and a Void Elf because a Void Elf has been transformed from being a Blood Elf into a Void Elf.

The process that turns Elves into Void Elves is repeatable, but it is also a one way trip. You cannot be a Blood Elf AND a Void Elf at the same stage, you transform from one into the other. In other words, Void Elves and Blood Elves are mutually exclusive.

What you can be is a tentacled, blue skinned high elf because a Void Elf is a different flavour of High Elf, but the High Elf race encompasses all thalassians whereas the Alliance high elves you wish to play as are a group of political exiles who are not differentiated in any way from Blood Elves.

I hope that clarifies things for you.

[Ielenia]

Void Elves WERE Blood Elves, but Void Elves are NOW Void Elves. You cannot simultaneously be a Blood Elf and a Void Elf because a Void Elf has been transformed from being a Blood Elf into a Void Elf.

They are still blood elves. On top of that, we don't know if the process is reversible or not. As far as I can recall, I haven't even seen nor heard of a single void elf that regrets their choices and wishes they could change back. For all we know, there is a way to reverse the process, but the ren'dorei are maybe not interested in pursuing it, in going back to the way they were before.

The concept of "transformation", in and of itself, does not imply said transformation is impossible to be undone.

The process that turns Elves into Void Elves is repeatable, but it is also a one way trip. You cannot be a Blood Elf AND a Void Elf at the same stage, you transform from one into the other. In other words, Void Elves and Blood Elves are mutually exclusive.

Alleria is the living proof that it can be done. She alternates back and forth between both "stages", 'void elf' and 'high elf', so why couldn't, or shouldn't, that process be replicated for the other elves?

What you can be is a tentacled, blue skinned high elf because a Void Elf is a different flavour of High Elf, but the High Elf race encompasses all thalassians whereas the Alliance high elves you wish to play as are a group of political exiles who are not differentiated in any way from Blood Elves.

This is something I have repeated over and over, and you repeatedly fail to acknowledge this. If it's because you're being intentionally confrontational, or intentionally obtuse, I don't know, but whenever we say the name "high elf" here, we're not talking about the entire Thalassian race, but the group, currently in game, that still maintains the name "high elf". The "high elf exiles", as @Aucald puts it.

There is already a name that is used to describe the entire elven race: "Thalassian elf". You used that name as well, so why is it so hard for you to understand and acknowledge that when we say "high elves" we're talking about the group of elves in the lore that still maintain that name for themselves, that did not re-brand themselves at Kael'Thas behest, and did not follow Kael'Thas' edict of draining mana from living beings, and not the entire Thalassian race?

[Aldo Hawk]

The High elf model can be modified to show how they looked when not affected by the aftermath of the scourge invasion.

Is simple as that. We all know how Blood elves look. Now, how did High elves look back then? Current models don't make justice by the simple fact they were designed to be playable for Blood elves and then just slightly modified for High elf NPCs.

It's super simple, and more than a lore friendly way to have a distinct looking High elf playable race in opposition to the Blood elves. Show what a High elf that didn't went through what the Blood elves did looks like.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

I thought the idea was to make it unique to high elves. If not, it is okay. Yes, it is totally acceptable.

I mean on one hand I do want wider skin tone variety, specially dark skin tones, for all races.

But I do think you can have differentiation by the HUE of the skin tone rather than the VALUE; Like, have both High Elves and Blood Elves with darker skin tones, but have HE have paler/ashier skin tones; less saturated, and give BE the golden/sunkissed/tanned skin tones. Ya feel? I do have a mock up of the HE skin tones I'd like, but I have yet to made the BE ones for contrast.

In fact, Alleria is Alliance because Veressa got to her first. If she was to talk with Sylvanas, the story would look different.

Possibly, although we can't forget Alleria was the most anti orc elf to ever anti orc lol. Her whole arc on Beyond the Dark Portal was to be less extermination minded about the orcs hehe!

[Aldo Hawk]

this is where you contradict yourself.

No, you are paraphrasing it in a way that seems like this exact point is the only contradiction. That is not the case.

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In fact, Alleria is Alliance because Veressa got to her first. If she was to talk with Sylvanas, the story would look different.

This is with the exclusion of Turalyon and the fact that Alleria didn't liked the horde nor the state her sister Sylvanas is now.

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There is already a name that is used to describe the entire elven race: "Thalassian elf". You used that name as well, so why is it so hard for you to understand and acknowledge that when we say "high elves" we're talking about the group of elves in the lore that still maintain that name for themselves, that did not re-brand themselves at Kael'Thas behest, and did not follow Kael'Thas' edict of draining mana from living beings, and not the entire Thalassian race?

Two things.

The process to transform other elves into Void elves is -not- repeatable, Moorgard's vague answer don't create such thing in the lore nor in game. It has to be written first before we can even say it can happen, because by simply taking the response on the face of it, there is a big lacking on information on how it happens why it happens, the reasons for it, the things that are needed, the reasons the characters decide to do it... Etc...

And yes, at this point, dancing around the word and concept of 'High elf' just strikes as blatantly and plainly obtuse, arrogant and dishonest.

We all know what a High elf is. We all also know what a -Thalassian- elf is.

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Possibly, although we can't forget Alleria was the most anti orc elf to ever anti orc lol. Her whole arc on Beyond the Dark Portal was to be less extermination minded about the orcs hehe!

Seems like you answered to this before me, well... At least I added some more info about it.

[Ielenia]

Two things.

The process to transform other elves into Void elves is -not- repeatable,

I'm not saying it is. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency between Obelisk Kai first saying that the process is repeatable, regarding the VE population argument, but then saying that it's NOT a repeatable process, meaning blood elves cannot get VE stuff like void powers or looks.

[matrix123mko]

Possibly, although we can't forget Alleria was the most anti orc elf to ever anti orc lol. Her whole arc on Beyond the Dark Portal was to be less extermination minded about the orcs hehe!

I think that in very long talk Sylvanas could explain everything: the Mannoroth's blood, Scourge of Lordaeron, fall of Quel'thalas and so on. I don't think she would become Horde enthusiast but maybe she would turn neutral.

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I'm not saying it is. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency between Obelisk Kai first saying that the process is repeatable, regarding the VE population argument, but then saying that it's NOT a repeatable process, meaning blood elves cannot get VE stuff like void powers or looks.

Are we sure it is not repeatable? Maybe it is but Locus Walker doesn't want to explain it to Alleria.

[Obelisk Kai]

They are still blood elves. On top of that, we don't know if the process is reversible or not. As far as I can recall, I haven't even seen nor heard of a single void elf that regrets their choices and wishes they could change back. For all we know, there is a way to reverse the process, but the ren'dorei are maybe not interested in pursuing it, in going back to the way they were before.


The concept of "transformation", in and of itself, does not imply said transformation is impossible to be undone.

No, they are not still Blood Elves. They are clearly different from Blood Elves. If they were still the same as Blood Elves, they wouldn't be called Void Elves. They wouldn't have gone through a transformation. As for 'undoing' the process, sheer hypocrisy on your part. I have put forward a rationale for my belief that the Void Elves can reproduce by converting other Elves.

1.) Moorgard's commentary
2.) In game where the number of Void Elves does not match the small group present at the initial transformation.
3.) Common sense in that if they couldn't reproduce, the Horde would have wiped them out by now given the number we have killed.

You are extremely resistant to this because it suits your arguments to say 'Void Elves cannot reproduce', because if they could reproduce then they could reproduce from Alliance High Elves. They hypocrisy comes from you saying 'we don't know if the process can be reversed' and attempting to use that as a counter-point.

While on the one hand you reject outright that they can convert other Elves, a position with actual evidence behind it, you hypocritically deploy a counter-argument that the transformation can be undone in an attempt to counter a point I made. There is absolutely no evidence that the process can be reversed. The presumption that the transformation is one way is therefore a fair assumption to operate under.

Void Elves are differentiated from Blood/Alliance High Elves because the unique options available to Void Elves are a by-product of the transformation. You cannot be a blue skinned, tentacled Blood Elf any more than you can be a fair skinned, blonde haired Void Elf. Even were your completely hypothetical, literally zero evidence proposition that the transformation from Void Elf back into a Blood/Alliance High Elf possible, that would still some involve some sort of transitional, transformational process between the two states and would have no impact on the fact that those two states ARE differentiated.

Alleria is the living proof that it can be done. She alternates back and forth between both "stages", 'void elf' and 'high elf', so why couldn't, or shouldn't, that process be replicated for the other elves?

Well I think I may have answered this before for you but I am not adverse to doing so again. Alleria is a hero character, like Anduin (who is a plate wearing, sword wielding priest) and others. The rules that apply to hero characters don't necessarily apply to player characters. And to be more specific, Alleria came by her powers a completely different way in that she ate the heart of a dark naaru to become a Void Elf rather than being blasted by void energies in a failed attempt to turn them into an ethereal. Now, if Blizzard allows players to become Void Elves by repeating the process Alleria did then sure, they can have their 'switch form' mode, however Dark Naaru are exceptionally, extremely rare. You know, the kind of occurrence you'd use in the plotline of a hero character rather than making available to every Tom, Dick and Harry Void Elf. This of course is not to say that Blizzard will not eventually give Void Elf like skins to the Void Elves...but that will still be a Void Elf, and won't be done the same way Alleria came by her abilities.

This is something I have repeated over and over, and you repeatedly fail to acknowledge this. If it's because you're being intentionally confrontational, or intentionally obtuse, I don't know, but whenever we say the name "high elf" here, we're not talking about the entire Thalassian race, but the group, currently in game, that still maintains the name "high elf". The "high elf exiles", as @Aucald puts it.

I note the phrase 'intentionally obtuse', which Aucald has used. 'High Elf exile' is also a phrase Aucald has deployed. I am glad to see he has enriched your writing style.

There is already a name that is used to describe the entire elven race: "Thalassian elf". You used that name as well, so why is it so hard for you to understand and acknowledge that when we say "high elves" we're talking about the group of elves in the lore that still maintain that name for themselves, that did not re-brand themselves at Kael'Thas behest, and did not follow Kael'Thas' edict of draining mana from living beings, and not the entire Thalassian race?

Because the entire thrust of the pro High Elf position is that the Alliance High Elves are a distinct race. Reserving the name 'High Elf' for just the Alliance High Elves implicitly concedes the point. This is not the case.

Void Elves have been described as 'another flavour of High Elves'. They are 'NOT' the Alliance High Elves, well, most of them aren't. Some of them clearly were. But they are High Elves. Just a different type.
Blood Elves, as you WERE told, ARE High Elves.
Alliance High Elves ARE High Elves too, but to call them High Elves alone is to privilege their claim to the legacy of the entire race, which as they dying dregs of a political splinter faction they don't deserve.

So there is a High Elf race, also known as the Thalassian Elves. There are two types of thalassian elf, Blood/Alliance High Elves and Void Elves. There are not three.
Among the Blood/Alliance High Elf type, there is a political split between the overwhelming majority of their people and a tiny band of exiles.

In a similar vein, there are four Tauren races. Mulgore, Highmountain, Yaungol and Taunka. There are not five despite the political split between the Mulgore Tauren and the Grimtotem. The Grimtotem are a political faction of the Mulgore Tauren who are currently in exile. They do not constitute a distinct Tauren race. As with the Grimtotem, so the Alliance High Elves.

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I'm not saying it is. I'm just pointing out the inconsistency between Obelisk Kai first saying that the process is repeatable, regarding the VE population argument, but then saying that it's NOT a repeatable process, meaning blood elves cannot get VE stuff like void powers or looks.

And this seems like a perfect TLDR as it shows you completely misunderstood the initial point. The process IS repeatable, but you cannot simultaneously be a Blood/Alliance High Elf and a Void Elf. They are two distinct states, separated by a transformative process. Therefore, if you are a Blood Elf and go through the process, you gain VE looks and powers but you become a Void Elf and stop being a Blood/Alliance High Elf.

[elbleuet]

Blood elves aren't High elves. They're fel corrupted or light corrupted Thalasian elves.

The untouched elves are those who sided with the Alliance.

And blood elves never defined themselves as high elves.

Face it. You will never get Horde High elves and that's a good thing because High elves are an iconic race of the Alliance.

[scubi666stacy]

Blood elves aren't High elves. They're fel corrupted or light corrupted Thalasian elves.

The untouched elves are those who sided with the Alliance.

And blood elves never defined themselves as high elves.

Face it. You will never get Horde High elves and that's a good thing because High elves are an iconic race of the Alliance.

Nobody wants Horde "High Elves". We have Blood Elves, the true heirs of Silvermoon. But after the restoration of the Sunwell, they are phsically quite the same as the renegade High Elves - because the renegades are allowed to visit the Sunwell, although they are traitors.

[Obelisk Kai]

Blood elves aren't High elves. They're fel corrupted or light corrupted Thalasian elves.

Blood Elves ARE High Elves according to the Game Director. And if they are light corrupted, so are the Alliance High Elves.

The untouched elves are those who sided with the Alliance.

These Elves also have an addiction they need to sate. They are not 'untouched'.

And blood elves never defined themselves as high elves.

Every Blood Elf alive today except the very youngest defined themselves as High Elves in the not too distant past, and given their lifespans are thousands of years long, over 99% of their lifespans.

Face it. You will never get Horde High elves and that's a good thing because High elves are an iconic race of the Alliance.

Blood Elves ARE Horde High Elves...so I guess you are right. We will never get what we already have. It would be like asking to have your favorite t-shirt you are wearing. Alliance High Elves are not however an iconic Alliance race and insisting they are iconic merely demonstrates are an ignorance of or a contempt for existing lore.

[ninthbelief]

It is true that Blood elves represent the fantasy High elf trope, but the actual Warcraft High elves represent it's own unique trope separate from the standard High elf trope.
High elves aren't supremacist, arrogant or overly racist. They're humble, friendly and supporting of the Alliance and their human allies and even Horde races in some cases.

They're their own unique elf trope and that's what has attracted many people to them, it was never having blonde pretty elves in the Alliance.

This is literally what Obelisk Kai's (and a lot of "antis" in general's) baseline is made from, dude. "High Elf fans" like to have in their head that it's a divide between "good blue-eyed elves" and "bad green-eyed elves", completely disregarding an entire world's history and dismissing two separate races' entire stories.

Using "overly racist" vs "racist" isn't gonna save you any face, the High Elves are incredulously racist, and worse, they're hypocritical when it comes to their racism, as they'd rather stay in bed with the Alliance than stick up for their not-even-as-distant-as-cousins in Silvermoon. I'm not saying that's something to hate about them, there's tons of interesting thoughts to think there and things you can possibly do with that storytelling wise, but that's the reality of it. They are more "supremacist", arrogant, and racist, than their kin and on top of it they aren't honest about it in any capacity. Again, that doesn't mean they're not cool or worthy of affection, but pretending it's the opposite because "blood elves bad" is just fucking non-sense.

I don't think the "anti" argument of "high elves rob the blood elf fantasy >:[" is very honest, even when long-time posters and friends like Obelisk Kai do it, but then posts like these justify them entirely (on a public forum level). Just because the High Elves aren't named something as edgy and portray themselves as taking the moral high-ground doesn't mean they aren't capable of having negative traits, and the specific traits you assign to Blood Elves to make them look bad are all specifically ones that are worse in the High Elf pop regardless.

If you want High Elves, and boy, do I, you cannot sit here and condescend that High Elves are the good guys and Blood Elves are the bad guys. Not only is it objectively false, but you create more opposition for them actually ever coming by sowing discord among potential fans with sweeping lines like "ugh, High Elves are just better than those supremacist, arrogant, racist Blood Elves "

[Ielenia]

Are we sure it is not repeatable? Maybe it is but Locus Walker doesn't want to explain it to Alleria.

I'm not saying it is, or it isn't, really.

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No, they are not still Blood Elves. They are clearly different from Blood Elves. If they were still the same as Blood Elves, they wouldn't be called Void Elves.

By that rationale, "blood elves" are not "high elves" anymore, or else they wouldn't have taken that new name. Names are just that: names. One very possible reason they took on a new name was because they were ostracized and banished from their own homes, and decided to carve a new path for themselves.

But they are still blood elves. They just got a different makeover. What you're doing is saying that the lightforged draenei are no longer draenei, that the highmountain tauren are no longer tauren.

As for 'undoing' the process, sheer hypocrisy on your part. I have put forward a rationale for my belief that the Void Elves can reproduce by converting other Elves.

1.) Moorgard's commentary
2.) In game where the number of Void Elves does not match the small group present at the initial transformation.
3.) Common sense in that if they couldn't reproduce, the Horde would have wiped them out by now given the number we have killed.


You are extremely resistant to this because it suits your arguments to say 'Void Elves cannot reproduce', because if they could reproduce then they could reproduce from Alliance High Elves. They hypocrisy comes from you saying 'we don't know if the process can be reversed' and attempting to use that as a counter-point.

This entire thing has nothing to do with what I wrote regarding my claim about the transformation not being necessarily impossible to be reversed. You went on a huge tangent and went off-course, considering I never once mentioned anything about "reproduction" or "population" in the section you quoted.

While on the one hand you reject outright that they can convert other Elves, a position with actual evidence behind it, you hypocritically deploy a counter-argument that the transformation can be undone in an attempt to counter a point I made. There is absolutely no evidence that the process can be reversed. The presumption that the transformation is one way is therefore a fair assumption to operate under.

False. On all accounts. I never said that the transformation can be reversed, I only said it could be, because we have no evidence that it cannot.

Void Elves are differentiated from Blood/Alliance High Elves because the unique options available to Void Elves are a by-product of the transformation. You cannot be a blue skinned, tentacled Blood Elf any more than you can be a fair skinned, blonde haired Void Elf. Even were your completely hypothetical, literally zero evidence proposition that the transformation from Void Elf back into a Blood/Alliance High Elf possible, that would still some involve some sort of transitional, transformational process between the two states and would have no impact on the fact that those two states ARE differentiated.

Void elves are "blue-skinned, tentacled blood elves". That aside: yes, you technically can. Alleria Windrunner is the living proof that it is possible. What converted the first void elves, i.e., Umbric's group, was a seemingly chaotic process that got interrupted "in the middle". What converted Alleria was a controlled process. Considering we see both Alleria and Locus-Walker in the Telogrus Rift zone, why couldn't Alleria, or even Locus-Walker, use that same process to convert new void elves instead of relying in the same process that almost consumed Umbric and his group?

Well I think I may have answered this before for you but I am not adverse to doing so again. Alleria is a hero character, like Anduin (who is a plate wearing, sword wielding priest) and others. The rules that apply to hero characters don't necessarily apply to player characters. And to be more specific, Alleria came by her powers a completely different way in that she ate the heart of a dark naaru to become a Void Elf rather than being blasted by void energies in a failed attempt to turn them into an ethereal. Now, if Blizzard allows players to become Void Elves by repeating the process Alleria did then sure, they can have their 'switch form' mode, however Dark Naaru are exceptionally, extremely rare. You know, the kind of occurrence you'd use in the plotline of a hero character rather than making available to every Tom, Dick and Harry Void Elf. This of course is not to say that Blizzard will not eventually give Void Elf like skins to the Void Elves...but that will still be a Void Elf, and won't be done the same way Alleria came by her abilities.

Alleria's case is not the same as Anduin or similar "notorious NPCs". And before you claim "special pleading", let me explain: Alleria's situation is about her body, her self, and not about which armor she wears or what spells she has. Alleria's process from "high elf"→"void elf" was explained in the lore, and demonstrated in the game. Yes, she consumed the "heart" of a fallen Naaru, but that was not the entire process. We also saw her consuming the "heart" of a void revenant, and we also know that is also not the entirety of the process as Alleria and Locus-Walker's banter during their quest chain in Mac'Aree suggests that Alleria has already been "studying" with Locus-Walker, and even in her very first appearance in Argus she's already demonstrating void powers. For all we know, the reason that Alleria has "gone void" after consuming the fallen Naaru's "heart" was because the thing was almost too powerful and she had to focus to contain it.

The point is: "consuming a fallen Naaru's 'heart'" is not the totality of the process of 'converting to the void', and it doesn't need to be necessary for it, either. A simple "consuming a void naaru is too risky, so we advise not to do it" rationale would work, especially if the version of the conversion process for new void elves from Alleria and Locus-Walker is a condensed, shortened, "tl-dr" version of the original for expedience's sake.

I note the phrase 'intentionally obtuse', which Aucald has used. 'High Elf exile' is also a phrase Aucald has deployed. I am glad to see he has enriched your writing style.

Not really. I used the sentence "intentionally obtuse" waaaaaaaay before Aucald used that sentence in this debate. As for "high elf exiles", I gotta try something to get through to you.

Because the entire thrust of the pro High Elf position is that the Alliance High Elves are a distinct race. Reserving the name 'High Elf' for just the Alliance High Elves implicitly concedes the point. This is not the case.

There is no "implying" anything. High elves are a separate group from the blood elves in the game, already.

Void Elves have been described as 'another flavour of High Elves'. They are 'NOT' the Alliance High Elves, well, most of them aren't. Some of them clearly were. But they are High Elves. Just a different type.
Blood Elves, as you WERE told, ARE High Elves.
Alliance High Elves ARE High Elves too, but to call them High Elves alone is to privilege their claim to the legacy of the entire race, which as they dying dregs of a political splinter faction they don't deserve.

"Clearly were"? Sounds a lot like a simple assumption with no real evidence to back it up. As for what comes after: it's irrelevant. Blood elves are no longer high elves in name. They are blood elves. When discussing high elves, blood elves and void elves, the name "high elf" can no longer be used to describe the entire thalassian race, considering there is still a group within the game that is named "high elf". The most honest thing to do is to start referring to the entire race as "thalassian elf" while leaving the name "high elf" to the ones that still use that name.

"Ah but then the culture and privilege of it..." Bollocks. The legacy of the "entire race" still belong to the Thalassian elves. To the high elves, to the blood elves, to the void elves. It's just really amusing that you say that "name changing doesn't mean anything" when people say that the blood elves are no longer high elves because they rebranded themselves, but the moment "rebranding" is used here to start calling the entire elven race by another name... suddenly "name changing" means everything?

So there is a High Elf race, also known as the Thalassian Elves. There are two types of thalassian elf, Blood/Alliance High Elves and Void Elves. There are not three.
Among the Blood/Alliance High Elf type, there is a political split between the overwhelming majority of their people and a tiny band of exiles.

No. Where "allied race" mechanics and requirements are concerned, there are three "types" of thalassian elves: high elves, blood elves and void elves. You don't see high elves strolling around in blood elf lands, and you don't see blood elves strolling in high elf lands.

High elves are separate from the blood elves politically, and culturally. Just like the "void" changes the void elves culturally from the blood elves, as you like to claim, so do their situation (i.e., their exile from Silvermoon) change the high elves' culture from the blood elves.

In a similar vein, there are four Tauren races. Mulgore, Highmountain, Yaungol and Taunka. There are not five despite the political split between the Mulgore Tauren and the Grimtotem. The Grimtotem are a political faction of the Mulgore Tauren who are currently in exile. They do not constitute a distinct Tauren race. As with the Grimtotem, so the Alliance High Elves.

Actually... yes, they do. Where the game mechanics of "playable race" and "playable allied race" are concerned, yes, the Grimtotem Tauren are a distinct, separate "race".

[FlubberPuddy]

Blood Elves ARE High Elves according to the Game Director. And if they are light corrupted, so are the Alliance High Elves.

You’ve been asked for proof of this by me for a while now and I’m not sure if you just haven’t seen my posts on it or choose to ignore it.

Moorgard clarified on how they deal with the Golden Eyes for NPCs and yet we do not see any Alliance High Elves with Golden Eyes.

They did go ahead and correct the Green Eyes that Frostfencer Seraphi had originally to Blue Eyes though.

Forstfencer Seraphi doesn’t come across as an “important NPC” relegating the need to make a relatively small change such as fixing his eye color.

So how come they took the time to fix a random High Elf’s eye color to Blue on Alliance but haven’t done the same with plunking Gold Eyes on an Alliance High Elf NPC?

You said the same thing that occurs to Blood Elves regarding the Sunwell must occur to Alliance High Elves.

We have been told Golden Eyes occur due to the devotion to Light.

Therefore if no Alliance High Elves have Golden Eyes that must mean the entire group must not be devoted to the Sunwell/Light as Blood Elves or that they are not affected by the Sunwell in the same way as Blood Elves.

[Aldo Hawk]

A Thalassian has to actively worship the light through the Sunwell to suffer the physical change of the golden eyes.

It is NOT a passive thing that happens to everyone, and High elves do NOT use the light magic from the Sunwell, since they never harmonized with the essence of M'uru.

Draenei worship the light through the Naaru, Blood elves do through the essence of a Naaru in the Sunwell.

High elves believe in the light the same way humans and dwarves do.