Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Lambskin]

You can guarantee if subs fall low enough they will release high elves and ogres as a 'return to fantasy roots' type thing.

[La]

For a dozen reasons more than why I never wanted void elves, vulpera, mechagnomes, lightforged draenei.

[Powerogue]

To get people to shut up about them, honestly.

Like I'd be content with high elf tattoos and eye colors available for the blood elves. We have four elf race variants that cover their themes with pretty heavy overlap.

Really the only reason is "they look neat." I put them in the same category as wildhammer dwarves in that, as they stand now, they don't have enough uniqueness and story potential to qualify as a full new race, but their customizations would be popular. I could easily see their customizations being built into void or blood elves, and people have made elaborate threads photoshopping how that would look.

The elaborate fanfictions people have built to give them more uniqueness and story potential are interesting to read, and would be enough to justify them as an allied race, but even then, we've got so damn many elves.

We didn't make the gold eyed blood elves or black eyed night elves allied races.

[Aldo Hawk]

I think its because it makes the Alliance from WC2 more whole, similiar like the Horde wants playable ogres and forest trolls.

This. Exactly this.

The way they look is just the way they look.

They are an unplayable part of the Alliance. There's not much of that aside Wildhammer (Which are taller and more hairy btw, not only tattooed Dwarves.)

[Hallowseve17]

This. Exactly this.

The way they look is just the way they look.

They are an unplayable part of the Alliance. There's not much of that aside Wildhammer (Which are taller and more hairy btw, not only tattooed Dwarves.)

This is the reason I'm so supportive of already established allied races. There's a very apparent and unplayable part of the Alliance and Horde. They should be brought into the fold.

[Syegfryed]

Looking at these icons a bit more:

You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

not rly, its just because contrast with the red clothes, the priest and the sorcerer by example are exactly the same.

[Thalassian Bob]

It's due to their lore, the idea of the underdog elves who lost everything and held onto their morality. Their story and struggles have always been appealing to me...But don't we have a megathread for this?

Yeah they held onto their morality... Their morality of siding with the faction lead by a man that wanted to put their prince to death, their morality of staying aligned with the Kirin Tor even when they were willing to abide the execution of said prince - and member of the Council of Six - in their city, their morality of attempting to undermine their brethren at every turn and their morality of conducting a murderous purge against their kin as soon as Jaina let them off their leash.

Yeah, the high elves really kept the moral high ground after their schism with their kinsmen.

[Gurluas]

Yeah they held onto their morality... Their morality of siding with the faction lead by a man that wanted to put their prince to death, their morality of staying aligned with the Kirin Tor even when they were willing to abide the execution of said prince - and member of the Council of Six - in their city, their morality of attempting to undermine their brethren at every turn and their morality of conducting a murderous purge against their kin as soon as Jaina let them off their leash.

Yeah, the high elves really kept the moral high ground after their schism with their kinsmen.

Garithos was just the commander of the remnants of Lordaeron's army. The majority of the Alliance had nothing to do with him, and it's pretty clear considering how many High elves are in Dalaran and other Alliance cities.

[Thalassian Bob]

Garithos was just the commander of the remnants of Lordaeron's army. The majority of the Alliance had nothing to do with him, and it's pretty clear considering how many High elves are in Dalaran and other Alliance cities.

Dalaran was the city where Kael was to be executed. The Kirin Tor were willing to see a member of their ruling Council and the leader of a dying race lynched in their capital city by a bigoted warlord on jumped up charges and without trial. I am suspicious of the moral character or intelligence of any high elf who remained loyal to the Kirin Tor after that.

At least elves like Grand Magus Telestra came to their senses later.

[Gurluas]

Dalaran was the city where Kael was to be executed. The Kirin Tor were willing to see a member of their ruling Council and the leader of a dying race lynched in their capital city by a bigoted warlord on jumped up charges and without trial. I am suspicious of the moral character or intelligence of any high elf who remained loyal to the Kirin Tor after that.

At least elves like Grand Magus Telestra came to their senses later.

The Dalarani at the time had barely any power, the city was in ruins and they had no means to oppose Garithos. The fact High elves are a prominent part of Dalaran's population makes it clear the Dalarani disavowed Garithos and his actions.

[Thalassian Bob]

The Dalarani at the time had barely any power, the city was in ruins and they had no means to oppose Garithos. The fact High elves are a prominent part of Dalaran's population makes it clear the Dalarani disavowed Garithos and his actions.

If the Kirin Tor and the high elves who aligned themselves with them had any moral conviction, they would have been outraged by Garithos' actions and would have barred him from the city, instead Dalaran's magical dungeons were used to imprison one of their own in his attempted murder.

Considering how rapidly the Kirin Tor were able to repair Dalaran after the Third War, I doubt they were as powerless as you imply.

[FlubberPuddy]

If the Kirin Tor and the high elves who aligned themselves with them had any moral conviction, they would have been outraged by Garithos' actions and would have barred him from the city, instead Dalaran's magical dungeons were used to imprison one of their own in his attempted murder.

Considering how rapidly the Kirin Tor were able to repair Dalaran after the Third War, I doubt they were as powerless as you imply.

I don’t necessarily agree with all that Trump does, but I still love America.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything that America does, but I still am happy to be in the US.

It’s not hard to see that what happened with Garithos was an isolated incident considered bad to both parties (Humans and High Elves).

That Dalaran continues to be the epitome of Human and High Elf relations shows this.

Otherwise, why would there continue to be High Elves in Dalaran getting alongside Humans so well?

All you’re advocating for here is a tribalistic mindset where everyone undoubtedly and unassuredly loves their own race and puts it above all others.

That type of ethnocentric thinking isn’t really part of World of Warcraft since the overall message of this game has always been about different races working towards a common goal.

Blizzard just likes to add in ethnocentric attitudes when it’s convenient and then throw them away when it’s not. But the majority of the time it’s not.

[Thalassian Bob]

I don’t necessarily agree with all that Trump does, but I still love America.

I don’t necessarily agree with everything that America does, but I still am happy to be in the US.

It’s not hard to see that what happened with Garithos was an isolated incident considered bad to both parties (Humans and High Elves).

That Dalaran continues to be the epitome of Human and High Elf relations shows this.

Otherwise, why would there continue to be High Elves in Dalaran getting alongside Humans so well?

All you’re advocating for here is a tribalistic mindset where everyone undoubtedly and unassuredly loves their own race and puts it above all others.

That type of ethnocentric thinking isn’t really part of World of Warcraft since the overall message of this game has always been about different races working towards a common goal.

Blizzard just likes to add in ethnocentric attitudes when it’s convenient and then throw them away when it’s not. But the majority of the time it’s not.

Actually the Horde and Alliance are ethnocentric by definition and the high elves, along with neutral organisations like the Argent Crusade and Cenarion Circle (who were historically ignored when they called for multilateral partnership), are more the exceptions that prove the rule rather than the typical way of things. This may change post-BFA, however. Though, I remain sceptical.

It is incredibly rare to see members of one race side explicitly against the majority of their kinsmen. I think Thalassians, void and high, are exceptional in doing this within the Alliance vs Horde framework. This may have been one of the reasons why Blizzard has been reluctant to introduce playable Alliance Thalassians for so long. And one of the main reasons why the void elves joined the Alliance was because they were exiled by their racial leadership, not because they loathe their kin. Quite the opposite, Alleria and Umbric want to unite Thalassians again, just under the Alliance banner. They don't want to explicitly damage Silvermoon's interests. The high elves do (a la attempting to block Sunreaver Kirin Tor membership, trying to claim Quel'Delar and later purging the Sunreavers from Dalaran with lethal force).

The only other time you see a race split between the factions is the Pandaren and, while we have no canon battlefield interaction between Alliance and Horde Pandaren (that I'm aware of), I think it's unlikely that the would fight unless it was absolutely unavoidable. Whereas high elves of the Silver Covenant likely wouldn't think twice about killing blood elves, given the opportunity. As shown in the Purge of Dalaran.

No other groups behave the way Alliance-aligned high elves do. Within the contemporary Alliance-Horde dichotomy at least. Historically there are exceptions, like the Kingdom of Alterac, but that was the result of one evil individual's machinations and, yes, the Draenei fight the Eredar, but that is because the Draenei are the only Eredar who have not been irredeemably corrupted by the Legion.

Going back to Dalaran, I wouldn't consider it the epitome of human/high elf relations historically if you consider the Kirin Tor's torrential on again off again relationship with the Sunreavers anything to go by.

Many high elves later abandoned the Kirin Tor to join Malygos' mage-hunters when the old dragon reminded them of how their kin had be treated in Dalaran's dungeons.

From the Adventure Guide log on Telestra:

It is rumored the Grand Magus Telestra tutored Prince Kael'thas. Though she believed the Prince allying with the naga was foolish, she could not support Dalaran imprisoning her people. Malygos only needed to remind her of this betrayal to gain her as an instructor for his mage hunters.

If I'm being generous to the high elves who remained loyal to Dalaran but neutral in the faction war, I would say that they stayed in Dalaran rather than answer Kael'thas' call to help the homeland because they had lived in Dalaran longer than they had in their homeland and considered the mages (regardless of race) as more their kin than the citizens of Silvermoon and felt they could perhaps do more to help where they were in the wake of Archimonde's attack on the city, rather than travel north to a kingdom that may already be lost (as far as they may have known).

But, when some high elves who remained loyal to the Kirin Tor after the crisis with Kael'thas were reminded some time later of his treatment by representatives of the Alliance, many abandoned Dalaran.

I wouldn't advocate that everyone in Azeroth (like in the real world) should only rub shoulders with people of their own race, but I really have a hard time understanding the motivations of high elves who would still remain loyal to the Kirin Tor after the events of WC3. And it's not about Thalassians "putting their own race above all others" but just not actively and wilfully hurting the rest of their kind and abiding those who would try.

[FlubberPuddy]

No other groups behave the way Alliance-aligned high elves do. Within the contemporary Alliance-Horde dichotomy at least. Historically there are exceptions, like the Kingdom of Alterac, but that was the result of one evil individual's machinations and, yes, the Draenei fight the Eredar, but that is because the Draenei are the only Eredar who have not been irredeemably corrupted by the Legion.

You're also ignoring:

The Blackrock Orcs, the Dragonmaw Orcs
The Grimtotem tribe Tauren
The Amani Trolls
The Night Elves who follow Fandral Staghelm
etc etc, I can't think of more off top of my head.

For Humans there's tons of in-race fighting (Defias Brotherhood, Scarlet Crusade, and the aforementioned Kingdom of Alterac, the Freebooter KulTirans, and probably more I'm forgetting).

Point is there's a lot of in-fighting between members of the same race. This has been true since WoW released.

Horde and Alliance are 'ethnocentric' in the same sense that Sports teams are 'ethnocentric.'

[Thalassian Bob]

You're also ignoring:

The Blackrock Orcs, the Dragonmaw Orcs
The Grimtotem tribe Tauren
The Amani Trolls
The Night Elves who follow Fandral Staghelm
etc etc, I can't think of more off top of my head.

For Humans there's tons of in-race fighting (Defias Brotherhood, Scarlet Crusade, and the aforementioned Kingdom of Alterac, the Freebooter KulTirans, and probably more I'm forgetting).

Point is there's a lot of in-fighting between members of the same race. This has been true since WoW released.

Horde and Alliance are 'ethnocentric' in the same sense that Sports teams are 'ethnocentric.'

Not very good company for the high elves to keep is it? Which goes back to my point that high elves cannot claim any moral superiority over the blood elves.

You raise some good examples, but I would argue that, while many of those belligerents are of the same race as the groups they fight, most of them are not of the same nation. The Thalassians have only one nation and the high elves actively work against it.

Arguably each orc clan is a micro-nation and Blackrocks and Dragonmaw did not join the new nation of orcs which Thrall created in his formation of the third Horde, so while they worked against fellow orcs, they were not betraying their clans and they didn't join the Alliance.

Like orc clans, tauren tribes could be considered individual nations and the Grimtotem never officially joined the Horde. Granted, Magatha definitely worked against the interests of the Horde and Bloodhoof clan of taurens and even, at times, worked tenuously with the Alliance.

Amani and Dark Spear have been distinct nations for millennia and, while the Amani rejected the Horde after they took in the Sin'dorei, they didn't go join the Alliance.

Fandral and his followers absolutely betrayed the Kaldorei, but this came after Fandral was more or less driven mad through psychological torment and manipulation.

The Kul Tiran freebooters are a group I would actually consider analogous to the high elves to a degree, but no one would hold them up as a shining example of morality. They are self-serving and opportunistic.

Individuals (like Alliance high elves) can choose to ally with whatever group they choose, despite my grumblings. But, I won't accept that high elves as a group are innately more noble than blood elves. That was my initial point of contention.

[FlubberPuddy]

Sorry, don't have as much time to get into a full discussion.

But, I won't accept that high elves as a group are innately more noble than blood elves. That was my initial point of contention.

But if that's all then yeh, I'd agree. Just as some see Blood Elves as being correct/nobler/honorable in their decisions and others don't. It's really a matter of preference.

No group is as you say, "innately more noble".

[Thalassian Bob]

Sorry, don't have as much time to get into a full discussion.



But if that's all then yeh, I'd agree. Just as some see Blood Elves as being correct/nobler/honorable in their decisions and others don't. It's really a matter of preference.

No group is as you say, "innately more noble".

No worries, dude. Yeah, just like in real life, we have to judge individuals, not groups.

[united]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

That’s honestly a reach. So they went from pale white to... pale white? Belves are pretty light skinned. The biggest and only physical difference are the eyes.

- - - Updated - - -

A question to HE supporters. What uniqueness do HE bring with them (if made playable)?

Bear in mind, every race or AR that has been introduced has a level of distinctness between other existing playable races.

I don’t care about high elves but this qualification means nothing. LFD for example easily could’ve and should’ve been customization options. HM Tauren are Tauren with antlers and bodypaint. A good chunk of Allied races we have don’t bring much in terms of outright uniqueness.

[FlubberPuddy]

That’s honestly a reach. So they went from pale white to... pale white? Belves are pretty light skinned. The biggest and only physical difference are the eyes.

Not a reach at all, very easy to see with the first 6 columns from the left. There's only like 2 are the same skin tone but diff eye color.

Which is why in my quote you quoted I say "a lot" and not "all."

[matrix123mko]

Looking at these icons a bit more:



You can see a lot of the High Elves have paler skin and then when they're Blood Elves their skin takes a more reddish tone.

No. You compare images of different characters.