1. #17361
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Can you provide proof for this statement? As the most recent word on it is Danuser's Twitter statement provided by Aldo earlier, and this is what Danuser says when specifically asked, "Lore wise would the eyes of the blood elves have progressively changed over the last few years or would they have changed shortly after the sunwell was purified?"

    Danuser: It's not that all blood elf eyes have changed from green to gold. It's that the potential for golden eyes is present, based in part on the individual's degree of devotion to the Light.
    Which is why some Blood Elves are manifesting golden eyes now. The thing is though that this isn't the only answer we have received regarding eye color over the years.

    Ask CDev provided the following response to the following question.
    Why do blood elves still have green eyes?
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    Corruption from fel energies takes a long time to wear off. It's why most orcs are still green even though Mannoroth is dead.
    The two statements are not mutually exclusive and are easily reconcilable. Every elf connected to the Sunwell has the potential to manifest golden eyes. CDev confirms that the fel energies that changed the eyes of the Blood Elves from blue to green and which sustain those eye colours will in time fade away. And what will replace the green eye colour once they fade? Golden of course, from the outward magical pressure of the sunwell's purifying radiance.

    Some elves, Priests and Paladins, are ahead of the curve on this matter and are manifesting the golden eyes now. Other Blood Elves of any class except Demon Hunters (who have consumed a literal demon) and Death Knights (dead)can have golden eyes now if they have a personal devotion to the light, but most Blood/high elves aren't going to be as zealous. It will take many years for the fel taint to fade from the majority of the Blood Elves. And we know blue eyes aren't particularly sticky either given how rapidly the vast majority of the high elf race lost them in favour of the green eyes. The exiles are subject to that same outward pressure from the sunwell as the Blood Elves are. If any of them are devoted to the light, and there are probably the odd priest or paladin still about, they will be able to manifest golden eyes. And without devotion, it's just going to be a matter of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Another follow up question appears: "Lore wise, is it likely all blood elves will transition to golden eyes over time, or does it require a certain zealotry on the individual elves' parts?"

    Followed by another followed up, "To add to Jenna's question: would it be possible for a mage or a ranger to get golden eyes, even if they are not zealots since the Sunwell is partially made of Light?" to which Danuser gives an answer to the latter (but the latter is asking in addition to the former question)

    Danuser: For players, we intentionally didn't restrict which classes can have golden eyes. Whatever story you want to make for your character's eye color, more power to you. For NPCs, we will be selective. Priests & paladins are more likely to have them, but others can if it makes sense.
    https://twitter.com/Leyloriel/status...69752205316096.


    https://twitter.com/MenegattiNevis/s...62320815681536

    The name of this individual who made what you suggest is the second question is Leyloriel, not Jenna. The question from MenegattiNevis Moorgard responded cited a Jenna, not a Leyloriel. MenegattiNevis did not tag Leyloriel either. And Moorgard did not tag Leyloriel in response. The question is good, but it was not answered, as Moorgard's response seems more than adequate to cover the second question alone. Is it possible Leyloriel IS Jenna, sure. Can it be proven? If proven that Leyloriel is Jenna, can it proven Moorgard was replying to her question at the same time as Menegetti's?

    Menegetti's question specifically cited classes, Moorgard's answer began by saying classes are not restricted and that for NPCs, Priests and Paladins are more likely to have them but others can if it makes sense. What I do take away from this is that Moorgard is giving you the tools in customisations to enjoy your character and tell your character's story as YOU see fit (more power to you). This is the exact same philosophy espoused in this T&E interview.
    BUT they did in fact limit golden eye availability based on class. Demon Hunters can't have golden eyes, nor can Death Knights, because giving those two classes access to golden eyes violates fundamental tenets of the lore of both classes.

    As someone who has argued that added customisations are a blank check that will allow them to ignore the lore entirely in what they grant players, this is proof that maximum freedom for players does not translate into absolute freedom. There are still limits in regards to what they will do determined by the lore.


    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Seeing as the former question asked if ALL Blood Elves will transition to gold over time and Danuser doesn't include that anywhere in his answer, means that either he did not answer that query or he's saying for them (ie the devs) - they will use Golden eyes on Priests/Paladins, but on other characters too if it makes sense.

    Nowhere does he say that all Blood Elves will transition to Golden Eyes over time, and it thus neither means High Elves will as well "since they're the same race" according to you. Disregarding that the question focuses specifically on Blood Elves in the first place, just as you like to bring up how the possibility of High Elf customization from Afrasiabi applies to Void Elves specifically, it is strange to think an answer regarding specifically Blood Elves there, applies to High Elves.
    The former question was not provably addressed. The second question was. No parts of the answer are inconsistent with any part of the second question.

    Everything Moorgard says therefore does not conflict with the Ask CDEV answer and the purifying effect of the Sunwell on the high elf people as whole.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-05-23 at 12:27 PM.

  2. #17362
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    in other words, they are blue, and you are still going for "technicalities", Cyan that i know, is when you mix green and blue, and you get this tone more blue-ish

    Again, showing the spectrum of their eyes, and is also a shade of blue.



    there is blue-eyes, just not the deep blue-eyes so far, and again, they could always go back like they did before in this statement, since make sense



    they should also get the full blue-eyes too, because make sense.
    You can call teal/cyan "blue", "green" or "juliet" for all I care. Doesn't change the fact that is has as much green in it as it has blue.
    Whatever...

  3. #17363
    The void elves received new eyes options. Maybe they will get new skin tones as well in the future.
    The Void. A force of infinite hunger. Its whispers have broken the will of dragons... and lured even the titans' own children into madness. Sages and scholars fear the Void. But we understand a truth they do not. That the Void is a power to be harnessed... to be bent by a will strong enough to command it. The Void has shaped us... changed us. But you will become its master. Wield the shadows as a weapon to save our world... and defend the Alliance!

  4. #17364
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bobwuzhere1224 View Post
    There isn't a difference. High Elves are free to visit and worship the Sunwell as they please, even those in the Alliance. They are the same as Blood Elves in that the Holy Energy from it radiates to them. Worshipping the Light in a church doesn't override this change that's been happening since BC.
    I doubt this is still the case after the Purge of Dalaran
    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  5. #17365
    Quote Originally Posted by DeicideUH View Post
    You can call teal/cyan "blue", "green" or "juliet" for all I care. Doesn't change the fact that is has as much green in it as it has blue.
    What does it matter? The npc options are probably going to be taken away.

  6. #17366
    Quote Originally Posted by Varodoc View Post
    The void elves received new eyes options. Maybe they will get new skin tones as well in the future.
    Textures (eye color/skins/hair colors) are fairly easy to add, so I guess we may see some of these options added to allied races. Hair styles, jewelry and beards are unlikely for 9.0, however, as they require new geosets.
    Whatever...

  7. #17367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    pretty much people are trying by all means to make this is "not exactly blue", or "not this blue!1!", or even "this is not the right blue!1" so "blood elves are not rly exactly high elves", grasping at straws, and it looks more like damage control

    this IS blue, just another shade of it, playing semantics. maybe they will release others, maybe not, time will tell, saying its not "THE" blue to further a non-existent difference make no sense
    Guess you should start sharing everywhere that Blood Elves got their blue eyes with that option and letting media sites like Wowhead/Blizzard Watch/etc know as well as other players around here and the official forums know. I'm sure those people will be excited they got one option for blue eyes finally, according to you.

  8. #17368
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, there are some posters here being really disingenous in the way they discuss,.
    there is nothing disingenuous in saying a shade of blue is blue.

    This damage control is looking childish, people have being screamed at the four winds that blue isn't what differ the elves, but there are trying to discuss how HE have the "true" blue color, and this "not the exactly blue", despise being a blue option.

    and will just throw out any facts from any source as "not valid" if it doesn't fit their narrative. It's just silly. Then they use pages like wikis themselves and it's suddenly legit.
    This is a thing applied to you people as well, don't know why you try to put on the other side, lik only picking

    Instead of just seeing stuff for what it is.
    a shade of blue? but no, it is not blue, blue, cause that would implies we were wrong, damage control

  9. #17369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Obelisk Kai View Post
    SNIP
    So you literally do not have proof for your statement that all high elves will eventually get Golden Eyes. That's all I had to see thanks!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    which means, Blood elves should also have blue-eyes, since another energy override the previous fel taint, if its not holy magic its arcane magic

    He also acknowledge the existence of blood elves with blue-eyes and they have a reason of why, who obviously either they coming back to quel'thalas, or their eyes changing back by the use of arcane magic, or even both.

    Mages should have blue eyes, just like Priests and paladins have golden eyes, and they should not restrict it, for the same reasons
    Sorry, but Ion said it's not for them. It sounds like you're still fighting for blue eyes to happen when "Word of God" has stated 'it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved'.

    How come you're trying to fight the developers statements now when normally you're trying to defend them?

  10. #17370
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    there is nothing disingenuous in saying a shade of blue is blue.

    This damage control is looking childish, people have being screamed at the four winds that blue isn't what differ the elves, but there are trying to discuss how HE have the "true" blue color, and this "not the exactly blue", despise being a blue option.
    Yeah, I am not part of that discussion. It's as much blue as it is green right, nothing to discuss.

    Not sure why you even try to defend yourself when it obviously applies for both sides.

    "b-b-but what 'bout the other's".
    Last edited by Doffen; 2020-05-23 at 03:59 PM.

  11. #17371
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Sorry, but Ion said it's not for them. It sounds like you're still fighting for blue eyes to happen when "Word of God" has stated 'it doesn't make sense for how they've evolved'.
    How come you're trying to fight the developers statements now when normally you're trying to defend them?
    How come you are trying to say he is right, when you and other passed years saying him was wrong? people here wanted Ion head for months, now he is suddenly a good God and the developers words matter, of course, ignoring what he said before.

    The thing is we are not "fighting", there is not a direct clash here with the like you said, word of god(who confirms there is blood elves with blue-eyes), just taking about the possibility that they could go back with a statement about customization, like they did before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    Guess you should start sharing everywhere that Blood Elves got their blue eyes with that option and letting media sites like Wowhead/Blizzard Watch/etc know as well as other players around here and the official forums know. I'm sure those people will be excited they got one option for blue eyes finally, according to you.
    i don't need to, people already know and people like it, most of horde people don't nitpick in what they have, but there is other who want the rest of the blue shades, since its bullshit to lock to npcs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Doffen View Post
    Yeah, I am not part of that discussion. It's as much blue as it is green right, nothing to discuss.

    Not sure why you even try to defend yourself when it obviously applies for both sides.

    "b-b-but what 'bout the other's".
    again, is a shade of blue, there isn't much to discuss besides people saying isn't the right blue
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2020-05-23 at 04:07 PM.

  12. #17372
    The Lightbringer Ardenaso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ardenaso View Post
    Alright, since Blood Elves are High Elves, and vice versa, then why do people still see Purge of Dalaran as racism and genocide when Jaina (retconned) only teleported everyone into the prison and the ones who did the actual killings other than the PC were... the High Elves?
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    The Alliance gets the Horde's most popular race. The Horde should get the Alliance's most popular race in return. Alteraci Humans for the Horde!

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  13. #17373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    How come you are trying to say he is right, when you and other passed years saying him was wrong? people here wanted Ion head for months, now he is suddenly a good God and the developers words matter, of course, ignoring what he said before.

    The thing is we are not "fighting", there is not a direct clash here with the like you said, word of god(who confirms there is blood elves with blue-eyes), just taking about the possibility that they could go back with a statement about customization, like they did before.

    i don't need to, people already know and people like it, most of horde people don't nitpick in what they have, but there is other who want the rest of the blue shades, since its bullshit to lock to npcs.
    It speaks of the 'strength' of your arguments when all you can do is resort to whataboutism. I've noticed it's a frequent tactic you employ, and it's a fallacy to use.

  14. #17374
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    It speaks of the 'strength' of your arguments when all you can do is resort to whataboutism. I've noticed it's a frequent tactic you employ, and it's a fallacy to use.
    i mean, the entire strength of you argument is try to flip what you do to the other "side", you literally tried to imply people are being hypocrite by not taking devs words(despite we not doing that) while most of the pro side do is nitpicking, ignoring and disregarding dev words for years by now, sounds a lot contradictory to me.

  15. #17375
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    If Nordrassil didn't block power of the Well of Eternity, Archimonde could use its powers during his invasion on Hyjal without removing the tree.
    If you meant block, you should have said that. You wrote BROKE - that means something totally different. MADE me write an entire paragraph recalling history.

    Are high elves weaker than night elves? I don't think so. Night elves were powerful only because of blessing of Nordrassil. When it was destroyed, night elves became as weak as high elves.
    Yes, they are diminished Night elves weakened by their expulsion - but that hardly seems to matter, they out perform them and beat them every time they meet these days.. but then why does it surprise you that stats on paper doesn't translate to victory all the time. Plot > stats - which is why we can defeat powerful ancient entities and even titans :rolleyes

    Yes. For a moment. It hasn't taken them a lot of time. Just a couple of years to reach Eastern Kingdoms and go north
    Do we know how long it took? In some accounts it appears like it took several life times of humans - they weren't travelling in a straight line you know to an established location, it is far more likely they would get to places, stay there for a while and move on for one reason or the other, we know t hey went through Tirisfal too.

    As for nightborne, I still think it is similar. Two races highly reliant on arcane magic that were cut from it. Without arcane suffusion they fall into illnesses comparable to famine. It is not a deevolution. It is a sickness that can be cured.
    This is comes from the night elves btw, it is not exlclusive to blood elves, but the situation is different in the night elf kind than it is in blood lef kind, Did you not observe this? IThe more addicted and hooked to arcane magic you were the more it affected you, if you were in balance, you would be fine, The Nightborne case is an exceptional extreme case of the night elven kind of addiction

  16. #17376
    Bloodsail Admiral Aldo Hawk's Avatar
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    @Syegfryed

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    ...

    I hope you are able to see how stupid that is, literal numbers on the amount of color have told that there are equal amounts of both colors in the bluest PIXEL.

    Do you know that it has a name, right? Well, of course you know, you have been told in the previous page, and it is called:TEAL

    Unless you prefer the:

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    But it's blue!

    But it's green!

    ...

    In which case, it says more about your way of dealing with arguments than anything to be honest, and that's not good, amigo.

  17. #17377
    Quote Originally Posted by ravenmoon View Post
    If you meant block, you should have said that. You wrote BROKE - that means something totally different. MADE me write an entire paragraph recalling history.
    Then sorry.

    Yes, they are diminished Night elves weakened by their expulsion - but that hardly seems to matter, they out perform them and beat them every time they meet these days.. but then why does it surprise you that stats on paper doesn't translate to victory all the time. Plot > stats - which is why we can defeat powerful ancient entities and even titans :rolleyes
    You can say that highborne have lost blessings of the aspects during their departure. However, so did the night elves when Nordrassil has been burned. This is a major motivation for Fandral later.

    Do we know how long it took? In some accounts it appears like it took several life times of humans - they weren't travelling in a straight line you know to an established location, it is far more likely they would get to places, stay there for a while and move on for one reason or the other, we know t hey went through Tirisfal too.
    I think they always said "many years". This doesn't say much but if I was to give a random guess, I would give them 40 years like in Exodus.

    This is comes from the night elves btw, it is not exlclusive to blood elves, but the situation is different in the night elf kind than it is in blood lef kind, Did you not observe this? IThe more addicted and hooked to arcane magic you were the more it affected you, if you were in balance, you would be fine, The Nightborne case is an exceptional extreme case of the night elven kind of addiction
    Nightborne are indeed a specific extreme case. I think no one was this dependent.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...lopment-thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Nevcairiel View Post
    If you are suggesting to take my Night Elfs Shadowmeld away, then please find some pike to run yourself through, tyvm.

  18. #17378
    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    You can say that highborne have lost blessings of the aspects during their departure. However, so did the night elves when Nordrassil has been burned. This is a major motivation for Fandral later.
    You mean Darth''remar's highborne? That's because they were stripped of it.. as punishment, and cut off from the well, to make sure they could never use the arcane magic of the Well - the night elves and Cenarius must have felt this was the only way to guranatee making them live wouldn't become a threat by them making another attempt to try and use arcane magic.

    Remember night elves believed for a long time that the srot of arcane magic that brought the legion could only happen if you used the Well of Eternity. Nordrassil could amak it's energy signature from the twisting nether, and to magical sensitives, - it could also serve as a buffer making it difficult to access the well itself for anyone.. the exception might very well be night elves who are naturally connected to it, so extra measures would have to have been taken.

    We know they lost the benefits of the Well AND the World tree - because they lost immortality, lost stature,, became a lot weaker, nearly dying off in that journey, weakened a lot.

    This is why people say it was a devolution. Not a massive one, but enough for them to be furious at the Darnassians... and there would have been other unforeseen consequences, like the capacity to handle magic diminished, which would mean less amounts of magic would get them addicted more easily - something they may not realise until the sunwell went - the reason I suspect this is that night elves simply suffused by the Well of Etenrity and Moonwells never get addicted, they only get addicted after ridiculously and excessively using. It is likely the blood elves wer enoet aware they were addicted having surpassed the limits of their devolved forms.

    they now do, although they diminished a bit, the Sunwell's arcane energy would have enhanced them a little bit, not as much as they were when night elves, and not as much as a natural connection to the Well of Eternity would do, but the arcane enhances everything, so it would have enhanced them.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by matrix123mko View Post
    I think they always said "many years". This doesn't say much but if I was to give a random guess, I would give them 40 years like in Exodus.

    .
    I would say longer than that, but who knows. could have been. Afterall, the wilderness journey of the Hebrews is 11 days straight, but it took them 40 years , these guys cross continents, they probably went north, or east , sailed north to Northrend, cut across Northrend, and sailed to Tirisfal, then travelled through till eventually reaching Amani land they rename Quel'thalas.

  19. #17379
    I am Murloc! FlubberPuddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    i mean, the entire strength of you argument is try to flip what you do to the other "side", you literally tried to imply people are being hypocrite by not taking devs words(despite we not doing that) while most of the pro side do is nitpicking, ignoring and disregarding dev words for years by now, sounds a lot contradictory to me.
    Nah, my point when entering into the teal eyes was that if you wanna call em blue, go ahead. You're the one trying to argue in circles saying "people are doing dmg control now" when I've literally said the people that wanted blue eyes should then be happy about that option and suggested you to share the news as it appears many don't realize that option is coming for them.

    You're putting forth arguments for people when there are no arguments being made with that eye color option.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Just took a gander at the US official forums, doesn't look like anyone's talking about the teal eyes, you should go inform them of such a good discovery you did @Syegfryed

  20. #17380
    Legendary! Obelisk Kai's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Geisl View Post
    So you literally do not have proof for your statement that all high elves will eventually get Golden Eyes. That's all I had to see thanks!
    I presented evidence in the form of the Ask CDEV quote and the principle of how the Sunwell acted in the past. That you ignored it is unsurprising. By your own words you have admitted anything you can't reconcile to your view on this topic, even if it comes from the developers, is ignored. Conversely, anything that you agree with, no matter how questionable the source, is exalted.

    But the principle stands. Blood Elves and the exiles remain the same race, bound to the same Sunwell and sharing the same destiny, which is really the principle at stake here as nobody expects any universal eye colour shifts within the lifetime of World of Warcraft. Ultimately, the blue eyes are just an eye colour, a circumstance of the moment, held by those elves who were outside Quel'thalas. Just as the golden eyes are just an eye colour, and the green eyes are just an eye colour.
    A high elf is as different from a blood elf with green eyes as a blood elf with golden eyes is different from a blood elf with green eyes or a high elf with blue eyes. Thalassian elf eyes just work that way.
    Last edited by Obelisk Kai; 2020-05-23 at 09:50 PM.

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