Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[Katchii]

How the hell do you explain the green eyes then?

THAT, is -already- part of the -current- lore of the Blood elves.

That CANNOT be a retcon, because it -IS- the way things have been all the time.

My Blood elf has taken fel corruption, your Blood elf has taken fel corruption, every Blood elf has taken fel corruption, one way or the other.

High elves, on the other hand, were not in Silvermoon by the time the Blood elves started using fel all around the city.

I never thought of it as fel corruption, more like an outward sign that they've used fel magic. Like bloodshot/red eyes on someone who just smoked a bowl. They weren't consumed by it, they were addicted to magic and for a time they used fel magic to sate that addiction instead of the Sunwell. Now that the Sunwell is back they no longer use fel magic and therefore aren't affected by fel magic and are instead affected by the Sunwell. Hence the golden eyes.

[Manariel]

The HE look the EXACT, SAME, as BE. How are they more distinct?
There is literally no difference both in terms of intentional design, and in lore.
VE are certainly more distinct Manariel. Suggesting otherwise is being dishonest.

Not at all and here's why :
-Both BE and VE identify as Blood Elves (until a random event changed the Void Elves) not High Elves
-Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void) and the first use of the VE in something not Faction War related is... them falling victim to the corruptive influence of the Void, just like several minor BE NPC have been made evil because they went mad with power - something which, to my knowledge, never happened to the HE
-Both BE and VE deem it necessary for the survival and protection of Quel'thalas
-Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

For all intent and purpose, VE are copy-pasted BE. They require far less work from Blizzard to differenciate them from the BE, because they can be used in the exact same way. Want an NPC going mad with power ? Use a BE or a VE, it won't make much difference in the end. And it really saddens me to say that, because I like the VE. But they are far closer to the BE than the HE are, nowadays.

[Ignaz]

Do you often tell doctors and the compilers of dictionaries that they are wrong? Because that's what you're doing here.

No, I just say that the title of that article has nothing to do with its content, and that the title is wrong. they use the physiological differences between twins (error) instead of using the genetic differences (in its genetic material): as a population of `` homozygous twins '' and another of `` heterozygous twins '' (the difference to which they refrain) just to prove the function of a gene
and a doctor can make an erroneous diagnosis. We are not perfect. There are many articles in the area of health (especially nutrition) that are flatly wrong

Physiology can be used to describe a much higher level of specificity than you are arguing

if you talk about members of the same species and if the physiological principles of each species are well established.
e.g. Dogs can't eat chocolate because they don't produce the enzyme that drains their composition, we humans can synthesize the enzyme. Can you tell me such a physiological difference between humans and elves in the game?

while I have provided 1) a dictionary definition of the word physiology,

https://books.google.es/books?hl=es&...iology&f=false
Here you have a book on human physiology, you can translocate many of those principles described in the first pages as general concepts.
I recommend Ganong of human physiology, it is easier to understand.

2) a medical study referring to differences in physiology at a much more precise level than required

What differences? and which study?

3) the game's developer's explicit declaration that blood elves and high elves are the same race.

They say they are physiologically the same, good. Tell me now, what is the physiological difference between HE and Humans? and why can they procreate hybrids?

So, you're arguing that because they sometimes appear different in game, that they should retcon the lore to make that difference canon? That will be controversial with anyone who cares about the lore, and certainly players like me who made blood elves during the time between November 2006 and the release of Cataclysm, when the Warcraft Encyclopedia was removed from worldofwarcraft.com. This lore was two clicks away from the WoW homepage for the four years that WoW had the highest number of players. You're welcome to your opinion, but you should understand the context of what you're asking for. It is a major departure from important lore that a lot of people have been exposed to.

you are telling me that the changes in the models have been canonized by lore, I tell you that it is not always like that.
e.g. HE with NE model and an expansion later, they magically have their own model. Why could the same not happen to differentiate HE from BE with minimal changes such as posture and facial features?

Some lore is subject to change, sure, but usually it's just expanded on, and they're very careful about changing existing player characters because those are the decisions that affect existing players the most. Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example. It's not just disruptive, it's a retroactive transformation of their character's identity. Sure, we all have our different perspectives, but blood elves are the most popular existing race in the game, so you're asking for a massive group of players to sacrifice the identity of their characters for an allied race (or whatever) that has almost exactly the same concept that they would be giving up. I can't possibly see that as a good decision. Not for myself, not for the playerbase as a whole, and not for Blizzard.

In fact, I agree with much of what you say here. That is why I consider that VE were a mistake, since they destroyed the identity of the blood elves in the horde in a certain way.
That is why my request has always been pro-HE but without sacrificing the identity of the blood elves. with ideas like the ones I already expressed (not a massive change necessarily)the idea of the Nozdormu elves or use the same BE mold but with different postures and other features that shares many similarities with blood elves, but it is sufficiently different not to confuse them.

but I also think that the integration of HE as a playable race, just fanned more the flames of that conflict between factions since, further emphasizing the key point of the franchise, because thinking or not they are the same race, HE have always served as carriers of the banner of the alliance and BE as carriers of the banner of the horde.

I also want to point out that, yes, a change in lore can be used to further expand the universe, and this opens up a totally different universe of possibilities (e.g. shadowlands) but they have not always been careful with those changes...ç

Imagine the effect of telling blood elf roleplayers that their characters were actually fel corrupted all along, for example

What about green eyes and tanned skin?

[Aldo Hawk]

Except, it was stated by the devs, several times, the corruption (mainly the eyes) is slowly being reverted due the energies of the Sunwell.

"Lady Liadrin, leader of the Blood Knights, is shown to have golden eyes in her Hearthstone hero artwork. Some blood elves have lost their fel corruption and gained golden eyes due the cleansing of the Sunwell.[39]

In classic World of Warcraft, blood elves had normal white eyes with pupils. The Sunwell Trilogy also depicted them with this appearance. The Priest unit in The Frozen Throne had glowing green-eyed models, while before the expansion, in Reign of Chaos, it had glowing blue eyes.
Ultimately, it is a matter of time before the fel-power induced green glint reverts back to the blood elves' regular high elven eyes. This process, however, may take a fairly long time.[24]"

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Blood_elf

Blood elves are not getting golden eyes left and right, that is a misconception.

The golden eyes appear to those who are light worshipers and use the light through the energies of the Sunwell.

- - - Updated - - -

I never thought of it as fel corruption, more like an outward sign that they've used fel magic. Like bloodshot/red eyes on someone who just smoked a bowl. They weren't consumed by it, they were addicted to magic and for a time they used fel magic to sate that addiction instead of the Sunwell. Now that the Sunwell is back they no longer use fel magic and therefore aren't affected by fel magic and are instead affected by the Sunwell. Hence the golden eyes.

It is fel corruption nevertheless.

[Timester]

Blood elves are not getting golden eyes left and right, that is a misconception.

The golden eyes appear to those who are light worshipers and use the light through the energies of the Sunwell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

ALL Blood Elves feed from the Sunwell, reason why everyone player can choose golden eyes if they want. No misconception there, the fel corruption is going away.

[Shakana]

@Ignaz, you're amazing. I like how you can talk like a doctor. lol Are you a doctor by any chance btw?

And i can't comment, i barely understand of that subject. All i understand is DNA.

[Aldo Hawk]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

ALL Blood Elves feed from the Sunwell, reason why everyone player can choose golden eyes if they want. No misconception there, the fel corruption is going away.

...

Look, that is NOT the whole story, look at what Danuser has to say: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...462386176?s=20

Don't you think there is a reason for why we have only seen priest and paladin Blood elf NPCs with those?

And this is more explanation on the -player's- choice also by Danuser: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

So there you go, that was a misconception and the fel is not simply 'getting cleansed' as you might think.

[Katchii]

It is fel corruption nevertheless.

I think corruption is too strong a word, by itself, though. The only thing that was ever affected was their eyes. They didn't transform, they didn't acquire new powers, they didn't become slaves to the fel magic or anything like that. Their eyes changed color.

Tainted would be a better word, IMO, as it still says they were affected but that it didn't fully consume them or anything.

It's semantics, really I guess, but the word corruption insinuates that it affected them more heavily and deeply than it actually did.

[Ignaz]

@Ignaz, you're amazing. I like how you can talk like a doctor.

I appreciate your words very much. it's nice to find people to empathize with

lol Are you a doctor by any chance btw?

Nah, not yet. but soon

And i can't comment, i barely understand of that subject. All i understand is DNA.

I am sure that if you talk about your professional area, I will not understand a little haha

- - - Updated - - -

I think corruption is too strong a word, by itself, though. The only thing that was ever affected was their eyes. They didn't transform, they didn't acquire new powers, they didn't become slaves to the fel magic or anything like that. Their eyes changed color.

Tainted would be a better word, IMO, as it still says they were affected but that it didn't fully consume them or anything.

It's semantics, really I guess, but the word corruption insinuates that it affected them more heavily and deeply than it actually did.

that is why semantics is so important in this type of discussion.

Most people often confuse the meanings of words as mutation and corruption with huge changes:
like "oh my god, I have a third eye" in the case of the mutation; when this only refers to changes in something that was established as a normal pattern

e.g. if the pattern were pale skin elves with blue eyes, a mutation would be the tanned skin elves with green eyes (and corruption caused that mutation, however small it may seem).

[Katchii]

that is why semantics is so important in this type of discussion.

Most people often confuse the meanings of words as mutation and corruption with huge changes:
like "oh my god, I have a third eye" in the case of the mutation; when this only refers to changes in something that was established as a normal pattern

e.g. if the pattern were pale skin elves with blue eyes, a mutation would be the tanned skin elves with green eyes (and corruption caused that mutation, however small it may seem).

I don't disagree, however in discussions where you have several kinds of people involved with different levels of understanding, different interpretations, training, etc... it's important to use words and phrases that convey the message you're trying to send rather than the somewhat more technical jargon that is used in that field of expertise.

Knowing that a word carries certain meanings, depending on the circle of people you're discussing it with, means that you should either preface what you mean when you say it, or describe what you mean rather than trying to use a word that can cause a misunderstanding so that everyone involved in the discussion regardless of their level of understanding or training can understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey.

The more time spent clarifying what you actually meant, takes away from the discussion you're actually trying to have.

[matrix123mko]

Yep, totally agree. I mean just looking at the pictures it tells a story of something weird that happened :P

I think the Nightborne Heritage looks awesome, except that "beard" hehe, which is strangely enough from the robe. If they just removed that, perfect.

These beard should have been a customisation option for males. I really believe taht it would help. Then, nightborne males would look less like night elves.

But the picture you linked here with the female with that purple dress, that is even better. Don't know how many times I mentioned that during the countless Court of Stars runs I had(more than 500, true story), but that dress, those shoulders on that female character. Just lovely.

I wish they used more flying elements and magic runes for that heritage armor. That's how I would design it.

Alas, they didn't get the same love as Kul Tirans. Either in model and their armor.

[Black Goat]

...

Look, that is NOT the whole story, look at what Danuser has to say: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...462386176?s=20

Don't you think there is a reason for why we have only seen priest and paladin Blood elf NPCs with those?

And this is more explanation on the -player's- choice also by Danuser: https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

So there you go, that was a misconception and the fel is not simply 'getting cleansed' as you might think.

It may not be the whole story, but it doesn't change the FACT that when Anveena cleansed the Sunwell, the Blood Elves began losing their fel taint. In the game, backed by story, players have the ability to choose golden eyes for their Blood Elf regardless of their class.

Even if the developers are selective, the story overrides their selectivity. All Blood Elves are capable of it, regardless of their connection to the light. Even considering the "whole story," all Blood Elves are capable of demonstrating golden eyes.

[Ignaz]

I don't disagree, however in discussions where you have several kinds of people involved with different levels of understanding, different interpretations, training, etc... it's important to use words and phrases that convey the message you're trying to send rather than the somewhat more technical jargon that is used in that field of expertise.

Knowing that a word carries certain meanings, depending on the circle of people you're discussing it with, means that you should either preface what you mean when you say it, or describe what you mean rather than trying to use a word that can cause a misunderstanding so that everyone involved in the discussion regardless of their level of understanding or training can understand exactly what it is you're trying to convey.

I totally agree with you here. You could also use these technicalities but with the appropriate explanation about them.
It's hard, but it can work.

The more time spent clarifying what you actually meant, takes away from the discussion you're actually trying to have.

Man, I learned that in the worst way

[Aldo Hawk]

It may not be the whole story, but it doesn't change the FACT that when Anveena cleansed the Sunwell, the Blood Elves began losing their fel taint. In the game, backed by story, players have the ability to choose golden eyes for their Blood Elf regardless of their class.

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

Also, one thing does not mean the other. The Sunwell is not 'constantly cleansing' as Lor'themar and Valeera, with their updated models, demonstrate. The golden eyes are something that appears on the individual in an active way, not a passive one.

Blood elves are also still using fel crystals, as seen in Nazmir during assaults.

Even if the developers are selective, the story overrides their selectivity.

The hell does this even mean?

All Blood Elves are capable of it, regardless of their connection to the light. Even considering the "whole story," all Blood Elves are capable of demonstrating golden eyes.

No.

Light worshipers get golden eyes because of their connection with the light of the Sunwell, this encompasses Blood elf priests and paladins, since they follow the light while also using the light energies of the Sunwell, instead of the traditional way of the Church of the Light.

[Timester]

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

The tweet actually proves my and Black Goat's point, the Sunwell is cleansing everyone. It doesn't say it's exclusive to Paladins and Priests, just that their connection to the Light make it happen faster. He even says "but others can if it makes sense."

[Black Goat]

https://twitter.com/Moorgard/status/...241684480?s=20

Also, one thing does not mean the other. The Sunwell is not 'constantly cleansing' as Lor'themar and Valeera, with their updated models, demonstrate. The golden eyes are something that appears on the individual in an active way, not a passive one.

Blood elves are also still using fel crystals, as seen in Nazmir during assaults.


The hell does this even mean?


No.

Light worshipers get golden eyes because of their connection with the light of the Sunwell, this encompasses Blood elf priests and paladins, since they follow the light while also using the light energies of the Sunwell, instead of the traditional way of the Church of the Light.

Yes. It is constantly cleansing. It is purging the fel taint from Blood Elves who abstain from fel magic.

The developers said because of the cleansing of the Sunwell, most (not all) Blood Elves are being cleansed of their fel taint therefore the possibility of golden eyed Blood Elves who are NOT connected to the Light is made possible. You simply saying "No." will not change that. It is WOG.

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=732xizkqfZk&t=645

This is not up for debate between you and I. No need to further discuss it, and I won't. Your redundancy does not trump what is said to be canon lore. The Sunwell was cleansed, the fel taint is waning in many of the Blood Elves who are no longer sating themselves via fel crystals. End of discussion.

Not ALL Blood Elves are using fel crystals. If you see someone doing cocaine, that doesn't mean everyone is doing cocaine.

The links you provided explain my remark about developer selectivity regarding green eyes/golden eyes on Blood Elf NPCs. Read your own links, for crying out loud. They made it clear that they are whimsical when it comes to Blood Elf NPCs retaining the green eyes, which explains Lor'themar and Valeera.

[Maxilian]

Not at all and here's why :
-Both BE and VE identify as Blood Elves (until a random event changed the Void Elves) not High Elves
-Both BE and VE dabble with dangerous and volatile energies (the Fel/the Void) and the first use of the VE in something not Faction War related is... them falling victim to the corruptive influence of the Void, just like several minor BE NPC have been made evil because they went mad with power - something which, to my knowledge, never happened to the HE
-Both BE and VE deem it necessary for the survival and protection of Quel'thalas
-Both BE and VE are seen acting in very dubious ways but handwave it away because it's for some sort of greater good

For all intent and purpose, VE are copy-pasted BE. They require far less work from Blizzard to differenciate them from the BE, because they can be used in the exact same way. Want an NPC going mad with power ? Use a BE or a VE, it won't make much difference in the end. And it really saddens me to say that, because I like the VE. But they are far closer to the BE than the HE are, nowadays.

I get where you are going, but i don't agree, the VEs represent what the BEs used to be, the BEs are not power hungry anymore, they are ex addict, they are the guy with questionable 20s, the VEs are still there, and may never leave that area.

[Manariel]

I get where you are going, but i don't agree, the VEs represent what the BEs used to be, the BEs are not power hungry anymore, they are ex addict, they are the guy with questionable 20s, the VEs are still there, and may never leave that area.

Well, as recently as WoD, the last time they were used as the main Horde force/present in a zone, we had at least one BE going insane with power. I didn't do Suramar with my Horde alt, but I don't remember seeing them do it there, however.

[Maxilian]

Well, as recently as WoD, the last time they were used as the main Horde force/present in a zone, we had at least one BE going insane with power. I didn't do Suramar with my Horde alt, but I don't remember seeing them do it there, however.

With WOD i'm not surprised, but with the introduction of the NB to the Horde -and, in general-, the BE also went to another chapter as the "guys who used to be afflicted", i mean... that's the whole connection between the NB and the BEs.

What i find interesting is a small difference bettwen the past BEs and the new VEs, is that the BEs did it for the sake of survival (at the start at least) but the VEs did it for the sake of knowledge and control, that alone put them in a really different category, even more that the energy they interact with is more dangerous, making the VEs that dive into that energy fools or brave soldiers that will fight the abyss

[FlubberPuddy]

What i find interesting is a small difference bettwen the past BEs and the new VEs, is that the BEs did it for the sake of survival (at the start at least) but the VEs did it for the sake of knowledge and control, that alone put them in a really different category, even more that the energy they interact with is more dangerous, making the VEs that dive into that energy fools or brave soldiers that will fight the abyss

VEs delved into the Void in order to better protect Silvermoon. They figured they could use Darkhan's notes/book for better protecting their home.

So same as for survival I'd say. It wasn't simply for knowledge/control.