Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

Ok so then it'll all be a matter of if Blizzard will become harder sell outs than they already are and add high elves for the sake of generating extra stripper money for their weekends.

Nice way of introducing an uneeded playable race instead of sticking to their guns and adding more to velf/belf lore and eventually making the helves a distant memory.

If that's not the case then void elves absolutely killed any chance of playable helves when blizz decided on making them the official belf AR and not the high elves.

You still didn't reply to my post where I showed people already ask for normal gilneans/kultirans btw, and what else is there for Alliance to get post BFA ARs.

I would like to hear your thoughts on those subjects, unless you don't have commentary for that entire post.

Anyways, you'd have to show me where its defined what is "an uneeded playable race" because there's already existing Allied Races that some people consider un-needed such as Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren which many feel could've been extra customization options added to their existing races.

Did Blizzard say they're only adding "needed races"? I've only heard them say adding AR "where it makes sense", that's a vastly different statement.

[DeicideUH]

There is another problem to this.

And is a storyline one.

When you create a Void elf, the initial scenario is what it is, they would have to modify it in order to fit the narrative that they are not only Blood elf infused with void by force, if not a new set of Thalassians that joined them one way or another.

They can easily update Telogrus, as well as Alleria's intro narration.

[Aldo Hawk]

Just because i threw in a few swears doesn't mean im being disrepectful unless who ever reads it as skin as thick as wet toilet paper.

And now you are insulting my intelligence, neat!

It's pretty clear who you were referring to with:

The PLAYABLE pure model was meant to be horde. Otherwise alliance would have gotten something similar to the OP and not void elves. Anything more and then you open up the flood gates with people asking for redundant shit like regular kul tirans because "my immersion".

"Hey guyz lets pull a race out of our ass, waste resource on designing a culture and lore around them. However, lets still give them high elves too."

While also trying to evade answers for it by writing:

Nothing but logic here folks. No bad intentions, disrespect, or malice. Just logic.

Also... who has 'thick as wet toilet paper skin'?

Please

It is pure logic. Asking for exactly duplicate races but from a different faction is redundant model wise, and models are the meat of a playable character, not the lore or the player's nostolgia fueled immersion.

In fact, it is everything but redundant since the option is not available while also being supported by lore. It's kind of an unique situation isn't it?

Seriously, why would blizzard waste time and money on an ass pull like velves when they could have just given alliance helves to begin with. Once again just using unbiased logic.

The answer we got is that they wanted to create something cool and also something similar to a Blood elf. Who knows if they already had lore reasons to it for things we hadn't already seen, as Nightborne having special interactions within Nazjatar for example. They write the lore with years of advance, maybe their lack of lore is kind of on purpose and it's meant to be fulfilled during BfA storyline.

For anything else, go ask them.

[FlubberPuddy]

Not only that. The very inception of Void elves took characterization from Blood elves by simply getting exiled for deeply studying void.

Blood elves were advantageous, rational and highly measured. Why this now? Ugh...

Yes it's a very clearly shallowly designed allied race. My guess is why Blizzard is trying to have them more involved in BFA, and so far are failing to add depth, or after this expansion where they've gotten some "interaction lime light" they'll be forgotten about if we aren't headed to something Void-themed.

I expect Blizzard to add more depth to them, but so far they haven't added much, if any, at all.

The majority of people playing Void Elves today are mostly doing it for visual/model reasons because their story depth is absolutely pathetic. Hell I've even seen some people say they play Void Elves because they're the only thin males on Alliance - so something not even related to them being Void!

[Aldo Hawk]

They can easily update Telogrus, as well as Alleria's intro narration.

I hope they left less half-baked things from now on.

[Varx]

You still didn't reply to my post where I showed people already ask for normal gilneans/kultirans btw, and what else is there for Alliance to get post BFA ARs.

I would like to hear your thoughts on those subjects, unless you don't have commentary for that entire post.

Anyways, you'd have to show me where its defined what is "an uneeded playable race" because there's already existing Allied Races that some people consider un-needed such as Lightforged Draenei and Highmountain Tauren which many feel could've been extra customization options added to their existing races.

Did Blizzard say they're only adding "needed races"? I've only heard them say adding AR "where it makes sense", that's a vastly different statement.

Well first, im glad those fedora flippers aren't devs cuz we don't need overcrowded toon creation screens in order to fullfill their mouth breathing rp needs.

As for what else is left?

Mechagnomes still aren't offically confirmed.

Worgen could get an AR, maybe nelf worgen

Then if the AR system is meant to give mutliple ars to core races then there's jinyu or ankoa, lepper gnomes, eredar, etc. Though i doubt that'll happen.

I cant give quotes on the future of the AR system, just educated guesses based on what we have which is safe to assume that velves killed of the possibility of helves when blizz chose them over an alreasy established thalassian faction.

[Aldo Hawk]

Yes it's a very clearly shallowly designed allied race. My guess is why Blizzard is trying to have them more involved in BFA, and so far are failing to add depth, or after this expansion where they've gotten some "interaction lime light" they'll be forgotten about if we aren't headed to something Void-themed.

I expect Blizzard to add more depth to them, but so far they haven't added much, if any, at all.

The majority of people playing Void Elves today are mostly doing it for visual/model reasons because their story depth is absolutely pathetic. Hell I've even seen some people say they play Void Elves because they're the only thin males on Alliance - so something not even related to them being Void!

One of the most common posts early since Void elf release from new Void elf players is that they found hard to feel any attachment to their characters, as if it were so shallow that lacked too much character.

I want to believe that it is because of intentional design of the Allied race, that it is meant to fulfill very specific fantasies such as... shallowness, or loneliness, or 'being darks mwahaha'.

[FlubberPuddy]

Well first, im glad those fedora flippers aren't devs cuz we don't need overcrowded toon creation screens in order to fullfill their mouth breathing rp needs.

As for what else is left?

Mechagnomes still aren't offically confirmed.

Worgen could get an AR, maybe nelf worgen

Then if the AR system is meant to give mutliple ars to core races then there's jinyu or ankoa, lepper gnomes, eredar, etc. Though i doubt that'll happen.

I cant give quotes on the future of the AR system, just educated guesses based on what we have which is safe to assume that velves killed of the possibility of helves when blizz chose them over an alreasy established thalassian faction.

Yeah so basically there is no good shit for the Alliance going forward past BFA. Thanks for confirming.

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One of the most common posts early since Void elf release from new Void elf players is that they found hard to feel any attachment to their characters, as if it were so shallow that lacked too much character.

I want to believe that it is because of intentional design of the Allied race, that it is meant to fulfill very specific fantasies such as... shallowness, or loneliness, or 'being darks mwahaha'.

It is very hard to get into the character of a Void Elf. And I'm someone that LOVES Elves when it comes to fantasy races. I have a hard time leveling one up to get its Heritage Armor, still haven't done it.

In the meantime though I've gone ahead and unlocked every Allied Race so far, even on Horde and it immediately is easy to connect with characters of all other ARs even when I'm not as passionate about them (like Dark Irons and Kul'Tirans) as Elven races.

[DeicideUH]

It is very hard to get into the character of a Void Elf. And I'm someone that LOVES Elves when it comes to fantasy races. I have a hard time leveling one up to get its Heritage Armor, still haven't done it.

There's simply nothing substantial to latch onto. They have a single NPC, Umbric, and all the rest are just assumed to be his clones. They lack variety, goal, struggle, anything that makes a race interesting.

It would be nice to know the clear answers to at least some of the many questions left hanging:

Alleria: What’s she doing? Where are her inner conflicts? How is her relationship with her husband? Her son? Her living sister? Her Alliance Expedition followers? How is the training with her void elves going? Are there any conflicts with the void elves?

Umbric: Where does he come from? Does he have a family? Why was he so obsessed with the Void to choose his studies over his homeland? Who are his favorite acolytes? Why did they remain loyal to him even in exile?

Void elves: What is their ethos? Are there troublesome ones? Are there promising ones? Are there any who disagree with Alleria’s or Umbric’s views? Are there ones who have been lost to the Void already?

Who are their recruits? Why would non-scholars seek to become void elves? How do they create more? Why would they even want to create more? What are the trials to see if an elf is worthy of the transformation? What measures do they take to keep the Void under control?

Diplomacy: What do they think of the races of the Alliance? How is their relationship with the high elves? What about the night elves? The lightforged? What races are closest to them? What races shun them the most?

Once Blizzard starts answering such questions, I may start taking void elves seriously.

[Garfurion]

On the "high elves will turn into void elves" possibility, like I said above, I can only see it happening if it's an unwilling transformation. There's no way the high elves will betray the very reason they split from blood elves. Sure, there's always the odd scholar or crazy extremist that may be willing to do so, but the entire race? Even its civilians and non-magic users?

“They start out as a small group,” Danuser continues. “But it’s natural as other elves have found out about them — elves who are interested in new sources of magic, power, or opportunities — would see if they could undergo a similar process. They’re not ... recruiting, necessarily, but they’re open to those who show a similar interest.” -- source

Note, the bold part. This certainly doesn't sound like anything an Alliance High Elf would do who have historically been more reserved when it comes to using magic. The Highvale Elves even stopped using magic completely so this excludes them anyway but it should also exclude any Thalasian Elf who is not a mage, warlock or (shadow) priest. Although it doesn't make the High Elves in Telogrus Rift impossible it will mean the ones we see are probably the only ones lore-wise given the low number of High Elves.

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Neither Blood Elves, nor Void Elves, offer that. It would be like telling someone they can "RP" their Nightborne on Alliance by just playing a Night Elf mage, when the entire backstory and theme of Night Elves is that they forsake using Arcane and delved into the more natural/spiritual magics.

Can someone honestly say with a straight face/no sarcasm that playing a Night Elf mage is equivalent to playing a Nightborne on Horde side?

No, but you can play a Shen'dralar as Alliance Night-Elf mage which comes close

Question is, why would the Shen'dralar stay part of the druidic Night Elven society, which probably doesn't completely trust and accept them, instead of joining the Nightborne in Suramar ? Probably something Blizzard didn't consider when making the Nightborne a Horde race

[Syegfryed]

You clearly don't understand -basic- biology if you call another group of people with different skin color a literal different species.

well Mrs. race is a social construct, im actually a biologist, so yeah i do understand not just basic of biology, but beyond that.

i never said that just skin color is literal different specie, you are again being devious trying to distort what i said to make your argument valid

You don't even take -basic- biology seriousness when trying to justify fantasy races without basic biology things as empirical evidence of the living being you are referring to, such as biologic samples, anatomical structure, cycle of life, habitat, etc...

but we do have those things, most of it, thats why i said that since we cannot have DNA samples or studies about genetic we are left with just morphological characters, and they were well used before and still are used today to explain different species, so they can be used on WoW races

the maghar don't just have skin color, i did said what make then different enough to be another race of orcs

You are behaving as someone who in Spain is called a 'cuñado'. Someone who just talks and talks as if he knew about everything but cannot go deeper into that because his vision is short as his desire to be truly wise.

Nice description of yourself on this subject here.

Demonstrate it, if you are so certain just demonstrate it. Link the definition of the false equivalence fallacy by yourself if you got the guts and also the parts (within the context, you like to cut context out of things) where you think i'm plainly faulting to logic.

i already explained step by step of why your equivalence is wrong and present the right equivalence of HE/BE dilemma, you are just ignoring like always.

@Syegfryed The bolded part is an example of false equivalence, just so you know.

now you are trying to explain what a false equivalence is? cute

We can play a Mag'har orc, who by gameplay is stated to be from Draenor, but you can easily roleplay it as a Mag'har from Outland.

yes and? this is not the point, you are desperate bringing up another thing trying to validate your point

Maghar and green orcs is not an equivalence to HE and BE, no matter how you try to force

both of which do not fulfill the fantasy of playing as one of those Thalassians that stood with the Alliance all along.

If its by RP then you can RP a silver coventant elf playing a Velf yes, people are doing this now, byt thousands, the same way you can RP a maghar orc from outland

outland orcs do have bloodfury, but the maghar don't, yet they still can RP an little Garrosh

Your personal liking on the matter cannot be taken as a factual point of legitimacy.

you know this is exactly pointed for you, right? pot meet kettle

[Garfurion]

Perhaps it is not the Blood Elves' culture who has changed? Maybe it is the Alliance High Elves who are rejecting the magic that has always formed the core of their people's society even as they are assimilated into human society.

I think both Blood Elves and High Elves have changed since the Sunwell and Quel'Thalas were destroyed. But whereas Blood Elves have done everything, including endangering their souls, to preserve their culture and way of life while High Elves tried to preserve their ideals/morals (such as not sucking magic from living beings or draining a Naaru) but sacrificed pretty much everything else while doing that.

I always assumed in Vanilla that High Elves rejecting magic was Blizzard's plan regarding the future of High Elves, given that the Highvale Elves abandoned magic altogether. Non-magical Elves would have been a twist on the High Elven fantasy genre that wouldn't have been out of place for Blizzard.

In other words, what you are suggesting is exactly what they have already done and for a small, vocal group of players it wasn't enough. Why would this suggestion work?
More to the point, whilst Blizzard's writing isn't exactly stellar, I think even they would baulk at the idea of another random group of Elves encountering yet another magical artifact and undergoing yet another unique transformation.

I wouldn't bet on that, so far Blizzard has come up with a whole lot "unique" transformations so I'm sure there are more to come.

Dark Trolls -> Well of Eternity -> Night-Elves
Night-Elves -> cut-off from WoE / Sunwell -> High-Elves
High-Elves -> Fel Corruption -> Blood Elves --> New Sunwell -> ?
Blood Elves -> Void Infusion -> Void Elves
Night-Elves -> Night Well -> Nightborne
Nightborne -> Unstable./dying Arcan'dor -> Faldorei
Night-Elves -> Old God -> Naga
Night-Elves -> Sargeras -> Satyr
Satyr -> Elune -> Night-Elf

This is even leaving out the wretched, felblood elves, withered, etc... I don't think any one other "species" has been transformed as much as Elves have. I doubt Nightborne and Void Elves were the last additions to the Elven family tree.

[Traycor]

Yes, Chris say "blood elves are our high elves", and then proceeds to say how blood elves evolved from high elves.
"Blood elves serve as our example of what happens to a group of people when they just won't stop playing with it [magic] or abusing its power."
"Illidan taught the blood elves - the now named blood elves - how to syphon demonic energies, how to syphon ambient arcane energies from air, and in doing so he damned the last vestiges of the high elven race to retain their magic addiction but feed it with really unwholesome energies."

There you have it, the moment the blood elves and high elves turned into two different things. He does not goes into it, but we know there's still high elves that didn't take that path, didn't rename themselves and remained in the Alliance, and thus are not covered in that speech. It's amazing that you refuse to see the obvious. High elves and blood elves are not the same thing.

High elves and blood elves are not the same thing. They share an origin, but their paths diverged ten years (in-lore time) ago.


"Basicly, blood elves kind of are high elves. [they have] different eye color, different backstory, [in terms of] you know, their different relationship to magic, but that's it"
There you have it, Ion saying high elves have a different culture. Ion's entire comparison between blood elves and high elves is about appearance. "If you want to be fair skinned, tall, majestice elf". If that's the problem, transform them, damn it! But retain what makes them different, which is the backstory that he himself acknowledges.

Instead, Blizzard transformed blood elves into void elves. But we didn't ask for blood elves, we asked for high elves. And void elves fundamentaly contradict that very same "different backstory" and "relationship to magic" that makes high elves unique.

All the likes!!!

[Aldo Hawk]

omegasnip

Zero substance at all, strawmans here and there, a highly doubtful statement given the false information that has been given, a 'no, you' childish stance, lies, doubling down in demonstrated and pointed out fallacies, assumptions without any basis at all, lack of justification of accusations, etc...

What are you trying? this is a complete mess...

[Alixie]

not the kul'tirans, the ones that became playable, they are not the same race of human

Word of God is infallible right? Travis Day confirmed Kul Tirans are Humans.

"So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans.

Now we have established that Kul Tirans are not a separate race, they are Humans. Humans and Pandaren prove we can have multiple playable versions of the same race.

kul'tirans show to have drust ancestry or at least hundread years of isolation and different conditions the normal process of specialization, unlike elves who had less than a decade with the same conditions.

Drust are Vrykul. All Humans are the (Curse of the Flesh) descendants of Vrykul. The first Human population in Kul Tiras were Guilnean settlers.

Kul Tiras was never an isolated nation. They traded, traveled, and settled with the other Humans in the Eastern Kingdoms and vice versa.

no matter how how a stormwind human try he will never get a shape or the kul'tirans racials

Should High Elves be playable, they will never have access to Blood Elf racials. These are gameplay restrictions, otherwise there's no reason why my SW human cant get fat.
And fat, skinny, tall, old, and muscular humans exist in the Eastern Kingdoms.

because they are? say they are not is like saying a human in the old town and a human in the mage quarter are a different race of human becaused they are separated by district in a small spawn of time

What's stopping them from adding High Elves if we've proven that we can have multiple playable versions of the same race?

[Aldo Hawk]

Word of God is infallible right? Travis Day confirmed Kul Tirans are Humans.

"So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans.

Now we have established that Kul Tirans are not a separate race, they are Humans. Humans and Pandaren prove we can have multiple playable versions of the same race.



Drust are Vrykul. All Humans are the (Curse of the Flesh) descendants of Vrykul. The first Human population in Kul Tiras were Guilnean settlers.

Kul Tiras was never an isolated nation. They traded, traveled, and settled with the other Humans in the Eastern Kingdoms and vice versa.



Should High Elves be playable, they will never have access to Blood Elf racials. These are gameplay restrictions, otherwise there's no reason why my SW human cant get fat.
And fat, skinny, tall, old, and muscular humans exist in the Eastern Kingdoms.



What's stopping them from adding High Elves if we've proven that we can have multiple playable versions of the same race?

I hope he finally understands that Kul'tiran are not another race nor species of human, they are plainly and simply humans. The conspiracy theory of Drust ancestry had been already effectively debunked.

I'm gonna bet that the idea of HE having different racials when becoming playable surely seems like rocket science for him

What's stopping them from adding High Elves if we've proven that we can have multiple playable versions of the same race?

I'm gonna answer this one for him: Absolutely nothing.

[Strippling]

"in an expansion where the faction conflict is so prominent" there was a desire for them to make Allied Races that were more distinct. Don't put your fingers in your ear and forget the context in which he was speaking.

I can't think of an expansion where there hasn't been faction conflict. It's a key feature of the game. Ion even reiterated the importance of the faction divide in WoW (not just BfA) in a recent Forbes interview.

So don't put your fingers in your ears, shouting aloud the word "context" while simultaneously ignoring his comment [that high elfs would blur faction lines].

[Philosopino]

Havent read the entire thread, but wouldn't it be nice to just give Void elves an out of combat high elf form?

[Strippling]

Funny how the high elfers exclaim that they have been "abused" by antis, yet in the last few pages of this thread I've only seen high elfers throwing out insults or mocking players because they "can't see why high elfs work".

The anti's commenting on this thread over the last few pages have predominately just opposed ideas that they disagree with, where as the high elfers seem to go one step ahead and openly mock those who disagree with them. Alex's words ring true "but please be respectful", showing that Blizz openly see and acknowledge the toxicity of some of the high elfer community.

I know anti's can be rude too, but reading the last 10 pages or so I've seen a lot more insult and mocking from the pro crowd than the anti crowd. How about we all refrain from mocking?? It's okay to not agree, but that doesn't have to be followed with mocking. @Obelisk Kai has not insulted anyone, yet has received bullyish comments from several of the pro crowd in recent pages. He expresses his disagreements and views on the topic, but has not mocked anyone. I suggest those who cannot be respectful leave the thread. This is a thread for the discussion of "for" and "against" high elfs, so comments from both parties should be accepted without insult, regardless of whether you agree or not. If you don't agree, merely state the fact... don't add insults along with it, that is just childish.

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Havent read the entire thread, but wouldn't it be nice to just give Void elves an out of combat high elf form?

That'd kind of take away from what makes a void elf. They underwent a different transformation to Alleria, which resulted in them having a more permanent taint of void energy. Making them more like Alleria would detract from void elfs in several aspects, and no race or AR should be detracted from simply for "high elf" aesthetics, which already exist via Blood Elfs.

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I'm gonna answer this one for him: Absolutely nothing.

Yet, high elfs to this date have not been added. On top of this, void elfs were added in their place.

Explain to me why void elfs were added in place of high elfs (when if ever there was a time to add HE the introduction of the AR system would have been the time)? I'd really love to hear your explanation.

[Syegfryed]

Zero substance at all, strawmans here and there, a highly doubtful statement given the false information that has been given, a 'no, you' childish stance, lies, doubling down in demonstrated and pointed out fallacies, assumptions without any basis at all, lack of justification of accusations, etc...

What are you trying? this is a complete mess...

nice way to deflect, acuse others of what you do, very mature

Word of God is infallible right? Travis Day confirmed Kul Tirans are Humans.

yes i know that, they are humans in the same way of highmountain taurens are taurens, yet, not the regular taurens, is that rly, rly hard to grasp?

"So, Thin Man and Fat Man are what we call them internally. And no, they’re not intended to be a different race, [they’re] just variants on Kul Tirans.

note the variant, not the regular human part

just because they did not intend to be a different race of human don't mean they didn't become later on, lets wait until blizzard do confirm they are indeed the same exactly thing, like they did with elves shall we??

Drust are Vrykul. All Humans are the (Curse of the Flesh) descendants of Vrykul.

humans are degenerated vrykuls, not just descendants.

Kul Tiras was never an isolated nation. They traded, traveled, and settled with the other Humans in the Eastern Kingdoms and vice versa.

they are isolated in one island, many groups there never traveled to other places and never had sexual intercourse with other humans, and some fo then lived different, this enough to grant a variation withing the race

Should High Elves be playable, they will never have access to Blood Elf racials. These are gameplay restrictions, otherwise there's no reason why my SW human cant get fat.
And fat, skinny, tall, old, and muscular humans exist in the Eastern Kingdoms.

Kul'tirans humans are not just fat, they are taller, larger, physical different and with different racials, this is not just gameplay thing, and normal humans cannot become like that.

exactly like a regular tauren cannot grow moose horns, a troll cannot become a zandalari an green orc cannot become maghar, etc.

What's stopping them from adding High Elves if we've proven that we can have multiple playable versions of the same race?

because HE are not a multiple or a different version, they are the exactly same version.

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I hope he finally understands that Kul'tiran are not another race nor species of human, they are plainly and simply humans.

yeah sure, simply human, but just tow times their size and Weight, totally different features and different racials, but just simply and regular humans its the same thing

yet, the same exactly elves are somehow different, your mental gymnastic is rly on top

The conspiracy theory of Drust ancestry had been already effectively debunked.

you didn't debunked nothing rly, Ulfar said the drust joined kul'tirans society, and the kul'tirans that become playable are taller and larger, just like a vrykul, their face look like Vrykul and they resemble too much to gorak'tul

i know basic logic its not your fort, but its so much obvious that is painful.