Official High Elf Discussion Megathread

[FlubberPuddy]

How can it be valid when they flunk the one explicit criteria Blizzard has set, the one criteria that common sense tell us exists.

A race that is already in the game will not be added to the game a second time.

I get that the entire playable High Elf movement relies upon denying the truth that as Blood Elves and High Elves are the same race because to accept they are the same race undermines the entire case, but you can't expect

It's valid that they exist on Alliance to today, not even including their long history on Alliance within WoW. That's the same argument people put forth for Horde humans, Alliance goblins, Horde Ogres, Forest Trolls, etc. These people see these examples as valid merely "because they exist".

No one denies that Blood Elves and High Elves are of the same race: high elf. But one should also note that Void Elves are also of the race: high elf. This doesn't matter. Do we only have 2 types of Humans in the game? Kul Tirans and Humans say hello, also Gilneans as well. All 3 are playable, are 3 are humans by Word of God [Developer] statements.

What you try to insinuate is that "Blood Elves are High Elves and thus High Elves are playable" completely disregarding that the High Elves people are requesting are not the Blood Elves.

Blood Elves may be of the race high elf, and former High Elves. But, now follow me closely here, not all High Elves are Blood Elves. Is Vereesa a Blood Elf? Is Alleria a Blood Elf? Is Auric Sunchaser a Blood Elf? Are the elves of the Silver Covenant, Highvale, Allerian Stronghold, and 7th Legion Blood Elves?

I'm curious how you answer.

And yet as the CM response revealed

While 'Every voice matters' is one of our Core values, and we value people voicing their opinions, that doesn't mean we have to agree with them. It is quite literally impossible to please everyone.

.

The size of the demand is irrelevant if it is something they don't want to do, if they truly believe it will harm the game. Undermining the boundary between the Alliance and the Horde falls into this category.

Don't be putting a Forum ticket answerer's opinion as a Community Manager response, that is super misleading. How many stories do we have of Blizzard's ticket answerers saying "Sorry we can't do anything about it" only to have someone escalate it higher to where an issue actually does get a proper solution?

What I'm basically saying is that isn't a Community Manager and thus it's false to use those quotes in a Blue Format since it's misleading. The same as you stated others to not use Ythisens comments post-CM within blue quotes.

Blue quotes are reserved only for CMs or Developer comments. Even when the moderators moderate a forum post, they simply edit it just like how the moderators on MMO-C do. There's no special lettering in a Forum moderator's comments.

And finally, that quote also has nothing to do with the statement that High Elves are the most popular support for an Alliance Allied Race request and no future AR will ever reach these levels of popularity. The size of the demand is all my comment focused on therefore it is very relevant. Your response is more of a strawman/red herring (at this point idc which) because you're going off on a tangent argument focused on something different than what I stated.

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Might be gone for a bit out of this discussion, it takes too much time to formulate responses and I have busy days ahead. Obelisk Kai stop being disingenuous, you've been doing that a lot lately. Other posters, make sure to point out the disingenuity in any posts.

[The Stormbringer]

That gave me a good chuckle. Where do High Elves fit in, though?

[FlubberPuddy]

That gave me a good chuckle.

Pretty good chuckle, some Hordie obviously got triggered enough to make it!

Where do High Elves fit in, though?

Expect to see one now that you've put the idea out there

[eScar95]

That gave me a good chuckle. Where do High Elves fit in, though?

They're not playable and I didn't make this. I'm just going to assume the OP didn't include them because they're not a playable race.

[Black Goat]

Player dissatisfaction is not that important, seriously.

Much of the other things you said were purely subjective, so I didn't bother including them.

But if player dissatisfaction is not that important to you, then I guess you believe they won't be that worried about including High Elves. By that logic, who cares if you guys are dissatisfied? Apparently Blizzard doesn't, and have never been for the last 13+ years.

I think you're right!

[Aldo Hawk]

Much of the other things you said were purely subjective, so I didn't bother including them.

But if player dissatisfaction is not that important to you, then I guess you believe they won't be that worried about including High Elves. By that logic, who cares if you guys are dissatisfied? Apparently Blizzard doesn't, and have never been for the last 13+ years.

I think you're right!

Yes, i'm right. Pity Blood elf player dissatisfaction over a lore friendly allied race is not that important.

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That gave me a good chuckle. Where do High Elves fit in, though?

High elves are obviously inferior to the Blood elf and Nightborne superior societies, so they gather with these soyboy Alliance cucks.

It's obvious :P

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So you're saying that if you walk into a filthy restaurant, but the owner tells you it's clean, plus it has a plaque on the wall saying the restaurant is clean, you'll accept his word that his restaurant is clean despite what your eyes tell you?

Or J.J.K Rowling saying that Hermione or any other character look different from already known physical characteristics when previously she herself wrote these characters looking different from what she lastly said.

[Black Goat]

Yes, i'm right. Pity Blood elf player dissatisfaction over a lore friendly allied race is not that important.

History says otherwise, considering High Elves aren't available to the Alliance.

So, unfortunately, you're wrong.

[Aldo Hawk]

History says otherwise, considering High Elves aren't available to the Alliance.

So, unfortunately, you're wrong.

History says that something not being now doesn't mean it will never be.

Think about it.

[Black Goat]

History says that something not being now doesn't mean it will never be.

Think about it.

There's... nothing to think about. The Alliance character creation screen doesn't offer High Elves. You said player dissatisfaction isn't important to Blizzard. And, well, this whole High Elf situation does make that clear. They don't care if you're not satisfied, or at least that's how it seems.

I'd go out on a limb and say the entire game reflects that they don't care about player satisfaction. It's barely playable for me without my friends being online. If they fire Ion, the next lead developer may see the benefit instead of the detriment that High Elves could bring.

But that's all I really have to say. Thanks.

[Alanar]

Extra customization for HE doesn't mean that BE can never have more in the future.

I would love to have Sin'dorei styled tatoos and proper beards. My friend, who is also a 'diehard' Blood elf player, got kinda dissapointed when Void elves got beards before us.

I think there has to be a limit in which player dissatisfaction has to be taken into the table. Since if they were doing changes and adding into the game through not upsetting players... They would have not added many things or changed many others.

Who likes LFR? No PvP vendors? Timegated flying?

Did everybody got sattisfied by the playable character revamp of WoD? Every AR and base race added into the game ever? Class changes?

Player dissatisfaction is not that important, seriously. Many things have been done despite the fact players could react bad to it.

We got golden eyes, beats the beard tho.
Trolls need beards tho.

[Hawkknight97]

I have Officially Dropped the Support for Playable High Elves now after being permanently banned off of the High Elf Discord/Community Itself. I can't believe after Two Long Years of this Campaign for High Elves and this is what I get? Its like as if you Pro High Elf Fans/Folks no longer care for people that actually has been at the start of the High Elf Discord to support for the Playable Allied/Playable High Elf Race.

So you know thanks for abandoning me on Twitter, Discord, MMO Champion and etc Folks. Thanks to --- snip --- who pretty much didn't give much of a reason behind my Permanent ban off of the Discord. I no longer care for the Playable High Elves now. Thanks for taking Two Years out of my Damn Life. Unreal.

I thought you Pro High Elf Fans were Good but your much as a Trolls and Censoring Jerkwads than the Antis themselves now in days.
--- snip ---

[ddi2]

I think the population statement was a cop-out. I think the real, logical reason is that they are, in fact, too similar to Blood Elves. Blizzard doesn't want identical races on each side, differed only by their eye color.

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the only reason why Blizzard doesn't want to do High Elves is only because they are too similar to Blood Elves. That's it. They don't care whatsoever about anything else. Anything else they tell is just a fluff and nothing more. And all the arguments that people post here regarding population, lore, some kind of rules of why High Elves cannot be playable is nothing more than a waste of time and are absolutely irrelevant because Blizzard couldn't care less about them. During WoD Ion told that he knows of the desire to play High Elves, but the last time he spoke bout the topic he told that people started to want High Elves when they saw Alleria. Why? Because he was forced to comment about the issue and he just spoke random stuff because he couldn't outright tell he just doesn't want to do it.

And not because Blizzard doesn't want identical races on each side, for Blizzard that's not a serious restriction at all. When they decided to add Kul'Tirans, them being just normal humans with no differences from the Stormwind ones didn't stop them. They just added multiple human body types into the game, and made one of them as a "playable Kul Tiran" and that's it - a new playable "race". When they gave Nightborne to the Horde, they didn't care that they are very similar to an Alliance race, that Alliance already had a fantasy of a purple race, and that Nightborne lore and identity was part of a larger Nigh Elf lore that Blizzard themselves focused back in Cataclysm (this is why we have Night Elf mages). All that fluff didn't matter to Blizzard at all. It's just that the lead devs simply don't want High Elves to be playable. And it's exactly the lead devs and not the whole Blizzard because we know that people inside are themselves split on the issue. But the lead devs fall to the anti side, simply because they are proud Horde players (didn't Ion pride himself of only playing Horde?) and hence its personal for them like it is for some Horde players we see here on the forums. That's it.

So I'll tell once again like I did from the very beginning: High Elves will become playable only when WoW will be on the verge of death or when the lead development team with Ion at the head changes.

[elbleuet]

I have Officially Dropped the Support for Playable High Elves now after being permanently banned off of the High Elf Discord/Community Itself. I can't believe after Two Long Years of this Campaign for High Elves and this is what I get? Its like as if you Pro High Elf Fans/Folks no longer care for people that actually has been at the start of the High Elf Discord to support for the Playable Allied/Playable High Elf Race.

So you know thanks for abandoning me on Twitter, Discord, MMO Champion and etc Folks. Thanks to --- snip --- who pretty much didn't give much of a reason behind my Permanent ban off of the Discord. I no longer care for the Playable High Elves now. Thanks for taking Two Years out of my Damn Life. Unreal.

I thought you Pro High Elf Fans were Good but your much as a Trolls and Censoring Jerkwads than the Antis themselves now in days.
--- snip ---

Theses folks don't represent all the players who want playable high elves since years. That tiny discord community really needs to be banned. They have been pretty intolerant to the people who don't share their opinions. I'm sorry for you ;(

[Hawkknight97]

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the only reason why Blizzard doesn't want to do High Elves is only because they are too similar to Blood Elves. That's it. They don't care whatsoever about anything else. Anything else they tell is just a fluff and nothing more. And all the arguments that people post here regarding population, lore, some kind of rules of why High Elves cannot be playable is nothing more than a waste of time and are absolutely irrelevant because Blizzard couldn't care less about them. During WoD Ion told that he knows of the desire to play High Elves, but the last time he spoke bout the topic he told that people started to want High Elves when they saw Alleria. Why? Because he was forced to comment about the issue and he just spoke random stuff because he couldn't outright tell he just doesn't want to do it.

And not because Blizzard doesn't want identical races on each side, for Blizzard that's not a serious restriction at all. When they decided to add Kul'Tirans, them being just normal humans with no differences from the Stormwind ones didn't stop them. They just added multiple human body types into the game, and made one of them as a "playable Kul Tiran" and that's it - a new playable "race". When they gave Nightborne to the Horde, they didn't care that they are very similar to an Alliance race, that Alliance already had a fantasy of a purple race, and that Nightborne lore and identity was part of a larger Nigh Elf lore that Blizzard themselves focused back in Cataclysm (this is why we have Night Elf mages). All that fluff didn't matter to Blizzard at all. It's just that the lead devs simply don't want High Elves to be playable. And it's exactly the lead devs and not the whole Blizzard because we know that people inside are themselves split on the issue. But the lead devs fall to the anti side, simply because they are proud Horde players (didn't Ion pride himself of only playing Horde?) and hence its personal for them like it is for some Horde players we see here on the forums. That's it.

So I'll tell once again like I did from the very beginning: High Elves will become playable only when WoW will be on the verge of death or when the lead development team with Ion at the head changes.

Or Blizzard could go on a different route and Actually give Void Elves Skin Tune Options with Tattoos. I mean I could see this going into the Future knowing the Fact that Allied Races were a failure in Blizzard's Eyes as of late.

[ddi2]

Or Blizzard could go on a different route and Actually give Void Elves Skin Tune Options with Tattoos. I mean I could see this going into the Future knowing the Fact that Allied Races were a failure in Blizzard's Eyes as of late.

They wouldn't. If they were fine with giving Void Elves the High Elf skin tones, they would have added High Elves in the first place.

Also, Blizzard employees were telling before that Allied Races was their most successful feature in BfA. Not sure why are you saying they believe it's a failure. Did something change recently?

[Black Goat]

Yes, you are absolutely correct that the only reason why Blizzard doesn't want to do High Elves is only because they are too similar to Blood Elves. That's it. They don't care whatsoever about anything else. Anything else they tell is just a fluff and nothing more. And all the arguments that people post here regarding population, lore, some kind of rules of why High Elves cannot be playable is nothing more than a waste of time and are absolutely irrelevant because Blizzard couldn't care less about them. During WoD Ion told that he knows of the desire to play High Elves, but the last time he spoke bout the topic he told that people started to want High Elves when they saw Alleria. Why? Because he was forced to comment about the issue and he just spoke random stuff because he couldn't outright tell he just doesn't want to do it.

And not because Blizzard doesn't want identical races on each side, for Blizzard that's not a serious restriction at all. When they decided to add Kul'Tirans, them being just normal humans with no differences from the Stormwind ones didn't stop them. They just added multiple human body types into the game, and made one of them as a "playable Kul Tiran" and that's it - a new playable "race". When they gave Nightborne to the Horde, they didn't care that they are very similar to an Alliance race, that Alliance already had a fantasy of a purple race, and that Nightborne lore and identity was part of a larger Nigh Elf lore that Blizzard themselves focused back in Cataclysm (this is why we have Night Elf mages). All that fluff didn't matter to Blizzard at all. It's just that the lead devs simply don't want High Elves to be playable. And it's exactly the lead devs and not the whole Blizzard because we know that people inside are themselves split on the issue. But the lead devs fall to the anti side, simply because they are proud Horde players (didn't Ion pride himself of only playing Horde?) and hence its personal for them like it is for some Horde players we see here on the forums. That's it.

So I'll tell once again like I did from the very beginning: High Elves will become playable only when WoW will be on the verge of death or when the lead development team with Ion at the head changes.

There's merit to what you're saying. Ion is human, too, and very capable of being biased. Not sure if you can be biased without a soul, though. That man is soulless. The Kul'tiran and Stormwind Human isn't a great point, considering they're both Alliance. The Night Elf vs. Nightborne issue holds a bit more water, but I think Blizzard did a good job of differentiating them and it makes even LESS sense to me if both Night Elves and Nightborne were on the same faction.

I think if nothing else, we can all agree on one thing. High Elves will most likely be playable in WoW's death-throes. I would be incredibly surprised if they didn't use them in such a sleezy, obvious cash grab. The game is undoubtedly in a bad place right now.

[Aucald]

External drama unrelated to this thread shouldn't be a part of this discussion - let's drop the irrelevant aside and return to the thread's actual topic.

[ddi2]

There's merit to what you're saying. Ion is human, too, and very capable of being biased. Not sure if you can be biased without a soul, though. That man is soulless. The Kul'tiran and Stormwind Human isn't a great point, considering they're both Alliance. The Night Elf vs. Nightborne issue holds a bit more water, but I think Blizzard did a good job of differentiating them and it makes even LESS sense to me if both Night Elves and Nightborne were on the same faction.

I think if nothing else, we can all agree on one thing. High Elves will most likely be playable in WoW's death-throes. I would be incredibly surprised if they didn't use them in such a sleezy, obvious cash grab. The game is undoubtedly in a bad place right now.

The Kul'Tiran example showcased that two identical races can suddenly become not identical in gameplay only and in nothing else if there is a will from Blizzard. That means that there is nothing in game or in lore that could have prevented Blizzard to differentiate two identical races that Blizzard would care about. It's just Blizzard doesn't want to add High Elves and it's not because they share the same model with the Blood Elves, but because Ion wants the archetype of "fair skinned elf" to stay pure Horde.

[FlubberPuddy]

The Night Elf vs. Nightborne issue holds a bit more water, but I think Blizzard did a good job of differentiating them and it makes even LESS sense to me if both Night Elves and Nightborne were on the same faction.

I think if nothing else, we can all agree on one thing. High Elves will most likely be playable in WoW's death-throes. I would be incredibly surprised if they didn't use them in such a sleezy, obvious cash grab. The game is undoubtedly in a bad place right now.

Blizzard didn't "differentiate" Nightborne from Night elves before deciding to add them on Horde. They've came out and said it was a tough decision which faction Nightborne should go to and they knew whoever didn't get Nightborne would be upset.

Nightborne as they are with their society/culture had nothing to do with it.

“We weren’t surprised that [Alliance players] felt betrayed,” Burke says. “We had the same reaction happen internally here. We had to make a choice, and both sides had very interesting arguments to make. We knew whoever didn’t get the Nightborne would feel a tinge of loss.” - Steve Burke

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

I agree though on your last bit, High Elves are probably going to be akin to a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. The nice thing is people don't have to stay subbed in hopes for it, it'll just happen when its needed.

[Black Goat]

Blizzard didn't "differentiate" Nightborne from Night elves before deciding to add them on Horde. They've came out and said it was a tough decision which faction Nightborne should go to and they knew whoever didn't get Nightborne would be upset.

Nightborne as they are with their society/culture had nothing to do with it.

“We weren’t surprised that [Alliance players] felt betrayed,” Burke says. “We had the same reaction happen internally here. We had to make a choice, and both sides had very interesting arguments to make. We knew whoever didn’t get the Nightborne would feel a tinge of loss.” - Steve Burke

https://www.polygon.com/2019/1/21/18...user-interview

I agree though on your last bit, High Elves are probably going to be akin to a "break glass in case of emergency" situation. The nice thing is people don't have to stay subbed in hopes for it, it'll just happen when its needed.

Well, the Nightborne are, in fact, differentiated from Night Elves. They have a different idle stance and appear to be quite emaciated and also have markings. I didn't say they were worlds apart, just differentiated. It just seems even stranger to me to have Night Elves and then skinnier Night Elves on the same faction, but then you have Kul'tirans so I don't freakin' know anymore...

I really won't pretend to know the exact reasoning why they don't implement them. I can only use the resources I have to determine a "most likely" reasoning and outcome. The few official statements they've made appear to be little more than PR jargon to "silence the masses". I don't agree with a population excuse in a video game... I mean... c'mon. Cat people exist, but we have to have a viable population to let people play a race? So the most likely reason to me is an inner-bias within Blizzard by someone who has sizeable authority. The likelihood of them not wanting to upset the Horde players even seems less likely to me the more I think about it.