Don't think I can do another expansion long grind

[Thoughtsinchaos]

I felt the need to grind AP at the beginning of the expansion, but it didn’t take me long to realize that you didn’t need to focus on it. Basically everything you do in the game rewards you with AP, and you can use the mobile app for AP missions when at work or school. You can focus grind AP, but I think I read somewhere each level past concordance only gave you a performance increase percentage in the decimals.

[Deleted]

Thanks! I imagine it working like a check out system where guild officers could allow any member to use it for a certain number of hours (like maybe a 12 or 24 hour period). Once that time period expires, the weapon goes back in the "vault" or whatever mechanism is used to store it.

The only hurdle is the mega guilds who genuinely have several independent raid teams that all could have "earned" a legendary. In that case, I think the "one per instance" rule comes into play well and would allow you to have multiple legendaries checked out in a single guild. Maybe each time a group fully completes the quest you get another "altar" which holds the legendary (when not in use) inside the guild hall (which I know don't exist... but they should!!!).

There is so many flaws to it though with stuff like appearances, swapping weapons, enchants, active effects like the mount and such, who actually unlocks it then?

How you actually approach all that throws in other spanners like if everyone unlocks it at the same time how does it work with new recruits or people who had to sit out for a bit etc. Who got to use it outside of raids, what happens if 2 people unlock it all that kind of stuff. It would be a bit messy but none the less it would have been a nice way for them to work.

- - - Updated - - -

So don't. Why post about it?

Maybe because his feedback and experience is just as valid as someone who praises the expansion to high heavens. Pretty sure you will have posted about how much you hated x feature in a game before because that is what forums are for, people posting their opinions.

[Ornerybear]

i was able to catch up an alt from 100 to the same ilvl and AP as my normal pug main in a matter of a couple weeks in 7.3+ the catch up mechanics at the end of an expansion are ridiculously good. you only need to grind an entire expansion (like always) to keep relevant to the current content. if all you care about is being awesome at the end of the expansion, then just do what you want until the final tier, then use catch-up mechanics.

[Shelly]

I just read your post where you said you didn't even really raid outside of LFR, so how exactly would you know if you were only doing LFR in group finder and not progressing in a competitive raid environment?

Except that I already said I didn't have this problem last xpac even when I was at a disadvantage due to tier or crappy rng raid drops. And seriously why do you keep saying they are better players when we were finally on a level playing field I was able to more than match them? In your world does gear = better player? because in my world skill makes people a better player if you have better gear you are just better geared.

Edit: Ok I get what you are saying with the weapon/ trinket drops but never had the gap seemed to me in my experience and history of raiding so substantial thanks to leggos/ artifact power and probably titanforging now that I think about it, but don't get me started on the titanforging bandwagon of hate. When I finally got those 54 traits I could feel the difference. In the past if gear had bad RNG then that was just life and because nothing could titanforge everyone remained relatively competitive. This time round it was because partly I didn't partake in some sort of boring grind fervently enough that involved religiously doing the same wq's over and over like everyone else in my guild for ap tokens or farming old raids for bis leggos. And that is why I'm not looking forward to azurite because unlike unlucky rng gear drops that aren't my fault it involves me no doubt doing that boring old harpy quest another 30 times.

I swear when I got to 24 traits, I said to myself, that wasn't so bad I wonder what the fuss was about but then I read some guild chat and I realised with horror there were another 30 traits all with slower powering up times, I nearly cried.

Regarding how I'd know, well I've been the guy to cut folks like you. I've also been cut in PuGs before too. One of the reasons I stepped back from it all was because I didn't like dealing with the hurt feelings and the drama. Also Blizz straight up said for everything below mythic you were expected to have a maxed out artifact weapon but didn't require any of the paragon traits.

In the other expansions you were able to bridge that gap where skill outclasses gear.

I'm legit not trying to insult you or anyone else, but the simple fact of the matter is if you have two characters and one of them is slightly more progressed on the gear curve and DOESN'T DIE TO EVERYTHING and you've got another character who also doesn't die and does very competitive DPS but still lower than the threshold needed for a boss you cut the guy that's not as progressed and bring him back in when you restart the next week so they can get more gear.

This expansion the gear difference was huge and it wasn't just due to titanforging. Nighthold had end-of-expansion level trinkets that are still best in slot for many classes. It also had absurdly good set bonuses that for many classes (hi there ret paladin!) should be baked in. Without them the level of play required to be progressive just wasn't there.

I'm sure you're a great player, probably far better than me, but that doesn't matter.

You were lacking the gear to cross the DPS threshold required to down a boss. Whether this could have been fixed with a trinket, set bonus or AP grind doesn't much matter.

I also think you have a completely valid fear regarding the grind for BfA. From the sound of it much will be returning, but they are deeply banking on warfronts and the Azerite islands to take up the grinding slack. Blizz wants us to almost never feel the grind when we play, for me doing WQs and just keeping order missions going on my smartphone was more than enough to stay competitive within my sphere and doing a lot of the things I enjoy in the game since I don't have a strong guild to be raiding with.

From the sound of things stuff should be slightly easier or less bothersome with the Azerite neck and armor, but until the system gets implemented and most importantly we find out what the higher tier bonuses are we'll be at a bit of a loss.

Just remember though that it's going to be like our artifact weapons enough that they'll be tweaking/empowering the item through each patch cycle. So expect to see a grind pop up once 8.1 hits, then 8.2 and so on.

Thankfully though it looks like the Azerite is supposed to be funneled directly into the neck and we don't need to spend 5 minutes hunting through our bags clicking on tokens every time we log in.

Have a good one. :-)

[Deleted]

You are not alone. Despite these forums i am pretty sure the vast majority of players hate the grind aswell. I saw many people leave the game because of it this xpac. More than i did in WoD.
Infinite grinds are the worst. It's basically the carrot on a stick. It makes you feel like a donkey. You are never able to eat the carrot.

[reauxmont]

I know what people are going to say, I don't have to grind. But of course there is Keen Kevin or Dedicated Dan that is grinding out all evening and if you want to roll with them and don't want to be left behind when it comes to choosing partners in M+ or raid teams then you sort of have to grind to compete and not get shelved.

So, what should be the reward of the time that Keen Kevin and Dedicated Dan invest in this game while you're doing other things?

[xcitng]

I used to like just being able to log on and do some dailies, a daily heroic dungeon with friends for valour points and the odd night raiding with my guild.

You don't need AP past 1 point in concordance to do any of those things you listed, what you listed is extremely casual...

In all other expansions you were no where near "Keen Kevin or Dedicated Dan" doing what you said above, why is it any different to not being close to current raiders? main mistake for AP not being class wide is being changed in BfA but if you continue to do the bare minimum like you've always done then we will see you at the end of BfA with the same complaint.

Wow is extremely casual friendly with the amount of gear thrown at you from everywhere & out side of organised raiding, there is plenty to do for casuals and it's only been getting more casual since Wrath....

[Wildpantz]

Legion is the best exspansion by far when it comes to grind/stuff to do. Every exspansion there was alot off "these things you must do every reset" so you dont fall behind. In legion you do 1 +15 and 1 heroic clear of current raid VERY easy to get done in 1 evening. I love that fact so you can do what you want rest of the week.

[Roxxy]

So, what should be the reward of the time that Keen Kevin and Dedicated Dan invest in this game while you're doing other things?

Well Keen Kevin and Dedicated Dan didn't invest that much time previously to grinding that's for sure, just did dailies and daily heroic, a bit of crafting maybe a bit of pvp for fun or transmog hunting, some socialising and logged off. So I guess in that respect Blizzard really succeeded in their time played metric.

So maybe cosmetic items and fun should be the reward?

I always thought of this game as skill trumps time invested for gear progression. I can down a couple of mythic bosses but I'm not a whole out mythic raider and in the past if I saw someone with all mythic gear I know they really earnt it. This xpac heroic raiders are running around with titanforged gear the same ilvl as mythic gear.

The whole titanforged thing makes it so that time can equal gear progression and really I think it's not a good path to be going down. Firstly it cheapens things for true mythic raiders, why would they bother if by grinding out heroic they can get the same gear level? And secondly if I do get a crazy titanforge from a wq or lesser content it actually cheapens the gear for me so much so that I feel ashamed. I don't look at the shiny titanforge and go 'wow I did something really skilful and deserve this' I just look at it and think wow that's stupid.

[reauxmont]

Well Keen Kevin and Dedicated Dan didn't invest that much time previously to grinding that's for sure, just did dailies and daily heroic, a bit of crafting maybe a bit of pvp for fun or transmog hunting, some socialising and logged off. So I guess in that respect Blizzard really succeeded in their time played metric.

So maybe cosmetic items and fun should be the reward?

The only difference between Legion and other expansions is that Legion removed the limit of time you could spent to increase your characters power. Before that, you'd have a list of things to tick off, and if you were done, you'd have done everything you could in terms of gear progression. But that's not a flawless system, imagine Super-unkeen-kevin and Super-undedicated-dan, who don't want to invest the time it takes to tick off every item on the list per week - they'd go through the same struggle that you are going through now.

Personally, I just hate dailies. So much. Which is why I never did them. Just like farming reputation. It took me ages to unlock CoS and Arcway, and I don't even get me started on that stupid cape in MoP. If you consider Artifact Power a grind, I'm pretty happy that I can acquire it via multiple sources and am not forced to do WQs. I don't want to be rewarded for stupid, repeatable mundane content - I want to be rewarded for a challenge.

I always thought of this game as skill trumps time invested for gear progression. I can down a couple of mythic bosses but I'm not a whole out mythic raider and in the past if I saw someone with all mythic gear I know they really earnt it. This xpac heroic raiders are running around with titanforged gear the same ilvl as mythic gear.

Really? I feel like, on average, time invested trumps pretty much anything in WoW, and it did from the start. Sure, my average guild won't beat Method to world first by just investing more time (if that's even possible), but the chance that we will beat the other slightly better than average guilds if we add 10 hours of raiding per week is pretty high. If you're paying attention to what you're doing and reflect on it, time invested should also result in skill gained.

I could also invest time in making gold. With that gold, I could buy BoEs off the AH, or pay another guild for to join their sellrun, resulting in better gear progression.

[irdsyd]

Initially when artifact power was needed to unlock fairly essential skills / talents then I found that annoying and encouraging too much play time. However, once the model was changed, then I just let it happen and basically ignored the bar. I have an allied race character I levelled to 110 and is now sitting at 71 AP without a lot of effort - which is not far behind my main toon. I hope that fairly core skills likely to be on the 3rd tier of azerite armor do not take a lot of grinding to unlock - especially as these skills are set to change over the course of the expansion.

[dcc626]

You are not alone. Despite these forums i am pretty sure the vast majority of players hate the grind aswell. I saw many people leave the game because of it this xpac. More than i did in WoD.
Infinite grinds are the worst. It's basically the carrot on a stick. It makes you feel like a donkey. You are never able to eat the carrot.

yes. im sure that your feelycraft reasoning is highly scientific. ive had more friends and guildies stay with the game longer in legion than in other xpacs. imagine that, different people feel differently about things.

[kamuimac]

So, what should be the reward of the time that Keen Kevin and Dedicated Dan invest in this game while you're doing other things?

them completing game much sooner and taking a break

honestly no game should be tailored towards hardcore crowd as its desitned to fail - just like legion failed just like wod because there is no content for casual crowd.

[Tradu]

I think a lot of what the op is expressing is regret that he can't find the will power to play "Fill the Bar" the MMO for another expansion, but also regret that it's what the game has become.

I mean, other than Suramar, Legion had almost zero innovation. There was no mystery or sense of wonder. It was just grinding that bar til it's full, then doing it again. And if BfA is more of the same(which it appears to be) then I really can't say I disagree with the OP.

My problem with Legion is that the bar was never really able to be filled for most of it. Now you can fill the (realistic) part of the bar reasonably quickly, which is nice, and once I get the last 43 legendaries I'm missing, I'll cut down the time I spend on WoW by a lot and spend some time on other games I've been neglecting(like D3, which should have a new season starting around the time I finish with legendaries)

[Deleted]

yes. im sure that your feelycraft reasoning is highly scientific. ive had more friends and guildies stay with the game longer in legion than in other xpacs. imagine that, different people feel differently about things.

I did say despite these forums. You're in these forums. Touché.

Honestly... i can't imagine what sort of people you and your friends are to enjoy the endless carrot on a stick. Probably young... Otherwise, i doubt i ever will.

[reauxmont]

them completing game much sooner and taking a break

honestly no game should be tailored towards hardcore crowd as its desitned to fail - just like legion failed just like wod because there is no content for casual crowd.

There... there's no content for the casual crowd? Why? What casual content did other expansions have that Legion doesn't?

Also, if it's really destined to fall, it's the fault of the players - you could always just find yourself a guild or group of players who are in your 'bracket', meaning having the same interest and roughly the same amount of time available.

[Barnabas]

It's just burnout and happens to everyone. Take a break and you'll be ready for BFA. I myself have become bored with Legion.

[Deleted]

I’m not sure why people see it as a grind. When it comes to AP you get it from every activity in the game. That doesn’t mean you need to grind out the activities you hate. Just do what you enjoy. You mention staying competitive. There are so many catch up mechanics that you dont need to grind anything unless you are in the top 1%. Personally I raid 3 times a week and we have decent progress in mythic ( aggra going down soon) and I never felt the need to go out of my way to grind anything. The only thing I do feel is a long grind is the prestige system but I guess its keeping me doing random bgs with friends so thats ok.

The only time o would argue AP was a necessary grind was EN and maybe start of NH but that lasted what? 9 months?

[Stormbornsham]

I loved World of Warcraft all through WOTLK, Cata, Pandaria and WOD and I never thought I would find it annoying or frustrating. Sadly, this happened with Legion. I used to like just being able to log on and do some dailies, a daily heroic dungeon with friends for valour points and the odd night raiding with my guild.

Now the game doesn't feel as free and easy as it used to with the introduction of expansion long grinds. Nowadays you grind and grind and then in the next patch Blizzard resets the grind and you grind some more. I sure did a lot of that in Legion watching that silly little bar move or not move when I clicked on a artefact power token. In it end I felt so stupid and depressed clicking on the token with a 2 second cast and then bar didn't even visibly move. Sure there are ways that allow you to catch up nearly each patch but they still involve grinding and then if you want to keep on being competitive you have to keep on grinding.

I know what people are going to say, I don't have to grind. But of course there is Keen Kevin or Dedicated Dan that is grinding out all evening and if you want to roll with them and don't want to be left behind when it comes to choosing partners in M+ or raid teams then you sort of have to grind to compete and not get shelved.

The whole thing was I enjoyed the casualness of the game, not having to do much to be viable in raids or whatever. I think that Blizzard underestimates the importance of that because people who have grown with the game are now much older and have more responsibilities and can't dedicate time to grinding so much. Plus grinding is not innovative game play, just repeating the same thing over and over and it breeds frustration and burn out. Oh look the harpies need killing the woods again! Some little narrative from someone about it, Same mobs needing to be killed, just did it yesterday and while I was levelling but oh lets do it again for 30th time!

I'm so depressed. I bought BFA with in game gold but I really don't know if I'm going to bother to sub again and play it with this new azurite grind. Sure it's only three circles at the moment but don't you worry Blizzard will be adding more circles to grind as the expansion moves along I'm 100% sure of that. I've been unsubbed for a few weeks now and I feel so free not thinking about all the stuff I have to do in game with the grind.

RNG was another big headache and I'm sure that's not going away next expansion either. Oh look RNGesus gave me another pair of pants this week from the M+ chest with slightly better stats but 10 ilvls lower! Yay not!

I really really want to love WOW again but it's just slipping away from me with all the meta changes, does anyone else feel like that? Anyone else actually quit because of the changes?

Havent seen a crying this big since that “Best Cry Ever” video edit, in which bambi dies and the guy starts crying MMMMMAAAAAAAA

[Mlz]

once I get the last 43 legendaries I'm missing

what? Or you have like 20 alts and just get one legendary a day on average because of the essences?