The Army of the Light and the lightforged Dranei (and by extension the Vindicaar)

[Darktbs]

I really don't understand this line of thinking.

We've just finished beating the ass of an intergalactic army with an entire fleet of spaceships at their disposal, several of which, we either destroyed or sent fleeing in the process. Yet somehow, the Alliance is pushed leagues ahead in terms of power by getting one?

The Vindicaar is a powerful addition to the Alliance yes, and it does have the crown of the triumvirate (or whatever it is called) boosting it, but draenei/naaru tech is not invincible. A good example of this would be the relative ease at which the Xenedar was shot down by the Legion.

People are making way too big of a deal out of this one.

1-Just because something can be destroyed/killed doesn't mean it is weak or its power doesn't matter.

2-The design of the Legion and Draenei ships are different, with the Draenei having no OPening for a sneak attack and having shields.Which the legion ones didn't.

3-The Ship can attack from a long range, a LF draenei can call a Light's judgment while the Vindicaar is on orbit.Said attack managed to break in the Legion base of command.

4-The weapon that took down the Xenedar was a strong one, Illidan even said that said weapon would kill them if not taken care, after said weapon is destoyed the Vindicaar is able to hold with ease countless Legion weapons hiting it at once.

5-You just ended a war where you had to deal with dozens of these ships with a partner, but now your partner is fighting you with a better version of the ship you two took down together.

[Captain Douchebag]

1-Just because something can be destroyed/killed doesn't mean it is weak or its power doesn't matter.

Not once did I claim this. I'm going to ignore point 2 and 3 since they're pretty much just follow-ups to this strawman.

4-The weapon that took down the Xenedar was a strong one, Illidan even said that said weapon would kill them if not taken care, after said weapon is destoyed the Vindicaar is able to hold with ease countless Legion weapons hiting it at once.

So we have confirmation that powerful artillery could possibly take it down. It is not entirely unthinkable that such weapons could be created on Azeroth, especially with azerite now being a thing.

5-You just ended a war where you had to deal with dozens of these ships with a partner, but now your partner is fighting you with a better version of the ship you two took down together.

While it is more powerful than the legion ships, it is still only a single ship, and we have proven we're able to handle an entire fleet of spaceships with the means available to us on Azeroth. You would have a better point if it took all of Azeroths forces to take down a single legion ship, but we handled those things all over the place with various different methods.


There's a big difference between saying: "The Vindicaar is a powerful addition to the Alliance" and : "The Vindicaar makes the Alliance auto-win the war". I take issue with the latter of those two, not the former.

[Darktbs]

Not once did I claim this. I'm going to ignore point 2 and 3 since they're pretty much just follow-ups to this strawman.

I never said that you did.

You said:

I really don't understand this line of thinking.

And used this

The Vindicaar is a powerful addition to the Alliance yes, and it does have the crown of the triumvirate (or whatever it is called) boosting it, but draenei/naaru tech is not invincible. A good example of this would be the relative ease at which the Xenedar was shot down by the Legion.

You used the fact that the Xenedar and the Legion ships could be taken care off as a means to make the Vindicaar as easy to take out and disregarded the huge benefits that the Vindicaar has and offer , thus leading to why people think its a huge advantage to the Alliance.

And ignored the reasons as to why he is better then the ships that were taken care off a as reasons to why he is a big game change.
You trying to acuse me of building a straman when im simply explaning why the vindicaar is a huge advantage and shouldn't be treated as the other ships.

While it is more powerful than the legion ships, it is still only a single ship, and we have proven we're able to handle an entire fleet of spaceships with the means available to us on Azeroth. You would have a better point if it took all of Azeroths forces to take down a single legion ship, but we handled those things all over the place with various different methods.

Because of the way the vindicaar was designed, i said that.

The legion ships have way to many openings for infiltrations with flying units and can be taken out by killing the commanders, plus they have no shields.The vindicaar have two opening max, one at the back which is thin and can be protected, and the portal that lead to them, which can be closed.
Only a really strong weapon ever posed a thread to the Normal vindicaar and not even constant bombardment of the Legion was able to take it. down.
You know, the Legion that has techonology on par with the Draenei and conquered worlds.

There's a big difference between saying: "The Vindicaar is a powerful addition to the Alliance" and : "The Vindicaar makes the Alliance auto-win the war". I take issue with the latter of those two, not the former.

No one is saying that the Vindicaar auto wins the war,at least im not, i told time and time again that it gives the a Alliance a "advantage" and its a"Huge game change" which it is.The ability to call a orbital strike is something that the Horde should be afraid.

[Minikin]

I really don't understand this line of thinking.

We've just finished beating the ass of an intergalactic army with an entire fleet of spaceships at their disposal, several of which, we either destroyed or sent fleeing in the process. Yet somehow, the Alliance is pushed leagues ahead in terms of power by getting one?

The Vindicaar is a powerful addition to the Alliance yes, and it does have the crown of the triumvirate (or whatever it is called) boosting it, but draenei/naaru tech is not invincible. A good example of this would be the relative ease at which the Xenedar was shot down by the Legion.

People are making way too big of a deal out of this one.

the point is that normally there is an arms race between opposing factions. for example, the alliance had the skyfire (the ship that took down deathwing, destroyed in stormhiem) while the horde had orgrims hammer (crashed in pandaria). They were basically air assualt ships literally aircraft carriers. equal pretty much. now all of a sudden one faction has a spaceship with a WMD attached to it. What this does is wreck it for the storyline, because it leaves two options exactly as the guy who i was responding to posted: 1. either the faction that has ownership of it gains a massive advantage, 2. for gameplay and storyline reasons it gets pushed to the sidelines. option 2 has a far higher chance of happening. option 2, also sucks. not because you cant pick option 1 for obvious reasons, but because its a cool thing that will just become obscure after a few shiny moments.

the problem in your statement is the "WE". We, horde and alliance pushed the legion back. putting the vindicaar with just one of the 2 factions gives that faction the tool "we" used to beat back said army.

[Captain Douchebag]

You used the fact that the Xenedar and the Legion ships could be taken care off as a means to make the Vindicaar as easy to take out and disregarded the huge benefits that the Vindicaar has and offer.

No, I did not. I used that example to illustrate that spaceships aren't unstoppable, despite some people seemingly thinking they are. That's my only point. No sneaky hidden agenda or anything.

You trying to acuse me of building a straman when im simply explaning why the vindicaar is a huge advantage and shouldn't be treated as the other ships.

Again, no. I'm accusing you of making a strawman because you seem to be attacking points I never made.

No one is saying that the Vindicaar auto wins the war.

Yes they are. I'll refer you to the previous page of this thread where @Darkeon wrote:

It'll either push one faction to supreme victory - or be abandoned completely for "balance" purposes.

To which @Minikin responded that he agreed, which prompted my response.

the point is that normally there is an arms race between opposing factions. for example, the alliance had the skyfire (the ship that took down deathwing, destroyed in stormhiem) while the horde had orgrims hammer (crashed in pandaria). They were basically air assualt ships literally aircraft carriers. equal pretty much. now all of a sudden one faction has a spaceship with a WMD attached to it. What this does is wreck it for the storyline, because it leaves two options exactly as the guy who i was responding to posted: 1. either the faction that has ownership of it gains a massive advantage, 2. for gameplay and storyline reasons it gets pushed to the sidelines. option 2 has a far higher chance of happening. option 2, also sucks. not because you cant pick option 1 for obvious reasons, but because its a cool thing that will just become obscure after a few shiny moments.

I agree that the power scale has until now, been roughly equal most of the way, and that the Vindicaar certainly helps push it in the Alliances favor. However, I don't agree with the "only two options" part. There still exists the possibility that the Horde finds a way to somehow combat the Vindicaar, which I don't find entirely too unthinkable when you consider that we've fought back spaceships before and that azerite is now a thing. This situation could still be handled in a somewhat decent manner by the writing team.

I do however agree that the most likely outcome in this situation, is Blizzard just forgetting about it, which would be kinda' shitty yes.

the problem in your statement is the "WE". We, horde and alliance pushed the legion back. putting the vindicaar with just one of the 2 factions gives that faction the tool "we" used to beat back said army.

We fought back spaceships before using the Vindicaar to assault Argus though.

[Minikin]

No, I did not. I used that example to illustrate that spaceships aren't unstoppable, despite some people seemingly thinking they are. That's my only point. No sneaky hidden agenda or anything.



Again, no. I'm accusing you of making a strawman because you seem to be attacking points I never made.



Yes they are. I'll refer you to the previous page of this thread where @Darkeon wrote:



To which @Minikin responded that he agreed, which prompted my response.



I agree that the power scale has until now, been roughly equal most of the way, and that the Vindicaar certainly helps push it in the Alliances favor. However, I don't agree with the "only two options" part. There still exists the possibility that the Horde finds a way to somehow combat the Vindicaar, which I don't find entirely too unthinkable when you consider that we've fought back spaceships before and that azerite is now a thing. This situation could still be handled in a somewhat decent manner by the writing team.

I do however agree that the most likely outcome in this situation, is Blizzard just forgetting about it, which would be kinda' shitty yes.



We fought back spaceships before using the Vindicaar to assault Argus though.

i know i hope it goes that way. we are just lamenting the fact that the way blizz has sometimes told story or run out of time telling one, the vindicars days of awesome might just be over.