Master Loot being purged?

[xpose]

This all comes down to not trusting people in a mythic setting so the obvious solution instead of keeping ML is to change mythic to flex raid so you don't have to take strangers.

[Onikaroshi]

Master loot in something like heroic only causes problems

Not really, unless you're in a shit guild.

Should still be guilds choice no matter the level.

[Onikaroshi]

not if it causes to many issues for other players its easy to be casual and do heroic raids

I mean, I don't know what trade chat guild y'all are getting into but in 13 years I have had ML issues with exactly ONE guild, and it wasn't even like they hid it so it was easy to ditch and it fell apart soon after.

[Racthoh]

can we have your gold ?

but more seriously - nobody besides 5 % will care. its a good change removing toxic elements from game

a lot of people will care, and they also happen to be the people that blizzard listens to the most when it comes to player feedback on raid content. plus ML is not toxic at all unless you're talking about pugs which don't count.

and i meant this mmo champ account but sure you can have my gold all 20k of it.

[Tech614]

It's also never going to happen. They said it every expansion.

Uh, it's been true in most expansions.

You will be hard pressed to find a 15 ilvl upgrade that is not actually an upgrade in WOTLK thru WoD. It was only with the ridiculous scaling of secondary stats and no primary stats on jewelry that this became an issue.

[Ipsissimus]

Real talk: can't you gloriously intelligent people who whine about these toxic guilds that run corrupt loot councils simply form your own guild full of unicorns and love?

Strange that I've raided for a decade in guilds of varying level, on different servers and factions, and can only remember very few cases where loot was blatantly mishandled in such a manner, and all of said cases are in the distant past.

You're like toddlers who have no interest in playing with a given toy yet still don't want the other sniveling bastards to play with it either so you just break it instead.

P.S.
I am one of said sniveling bastards in this case so no whining about offensive language, cheers.

[Tharkkun]

I don't think you understood what I was saying. I meant it's literally impossible to trade an item that's a higher item level than your highest piece for that slot.

I understand. The problem is the way stats are valued or primary stats specifically. They are sometimes equal or lower than the secondary stats. Fixing this would automatically make that item an upgrade so there wouldn't be a need to trade the higher ilevel one. But as of right now that's not the case for most classes.

In order for personal loot to work they need to fix primary stats which they pledged to do yet again in BFA. We'll see.

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Okay so I have a 950 Haste/Crit ring as a Shadow Priest. I get a 965 ring to drop that has Versatility/Mastery. In a world where that's an upgrade for me, the game is so shallow that I won't be playing it anymore. You would have to have the primary stat on that ring so massively overpowered in comparison to secondary stats that they become entirely worthless.

You can't have a world where secondary stats are interesting to character progression and setup but small ilvl increases are upgrades despite having the worst secondaries. It simply won't work.

It sure can. It's how it used to work many expansions ago. The ilevel of an item trumped everything. There's exceptions in some rare cases but everytime we'd move to the next Tier/Dungeon in both Vanilla and BC items would be an upgrade. Even LK and Cata was pretty clear cut but MOP/WOD/Legion they tried to give secondary stats far more value and they always go too far.

We're getting another stat squish as well so stats will be much smaller again making it easier to tune.

[Aggrophobic]

not if it causes to many issues for other players its easy to be casual and do heroic raids

It doesn't cause any issues though. If you don't like the system you can just use another one.
Removing choice in this way is never good.

[Tharkkun]

I suggest you watch Asmongold's video as to why it's bad. He brings up a lot of valid points. One being that let's say you wipe to a boss 300 times but when you do finally kill it you were forced to bring that one sketchy raider that never shows up or posts out, and was there for maybe 20 pulls, and gets a max ilvl bis item. You think that's fair? That person's reward should be being able to coin the boss, not take good loot from people that put in way more effort.

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Yep was a guy in my old guild that titanforged everything he got. He quit for 2 months, came back, and was still more geared than a lot of people.

Why is someone who was present for the kill and helped get a boss down not any more worthy then the others who were there? That's asinine and elitist. If they came in after it was on farm for 4 weeks then maybe, maybe you might have a bit of credibility but regardless if they assisted in the kill they should 100% eligible.

If you're going to deny loot then don't bring the person with. Find someone else. Otherwise you obviously needed them.

[Seramore]

I understand.

No, I don't think you do. The problem is that a lot of the gear won't even be tradeable for a while, not that primary stats are valued lower than secondary stats for most classes.

[Halobob87]

That's flat out retarded. If they are going to remove ML in BfA, i will just stop raiding.

[Gorsameth]

Yeah, I'm sure they'll find a way around it but it's just another factor that limits the number of guilds actually doing it. Typical split runs, like they exist now, are ran by a good portion of guilds in the top 100-150, actually requiring more than 2 characters of the same class to be leveled to do these types of runs will only be the top 20ish guilds at most I'm sure. Essentially, the guilds that already require you have like 5 alts.

Honestly, I think blizzard is really trying to force this game to become more and more casual rather than for the hardcore raider type. Especially since this essentially removes any incentive to stick with a guild to prove yourself and move up the totem pole to earn loot. You have zero repercussions in terms of loot potential by guild hopping every few months or even weeks with this change. You're always going to be eligible for loot. Loyalty won't be required anymore.

One could also argue that the top raiding seen has become so hardcore it is killing itself. Blizzard designs systems it thinks the majority of games will enjoy (AP as a constant progression goal for example) and the hardcore raiders abuse it to the max possible (Grind X every week or be benched ect).
This leads to massive burnout issues.
One could say Blizzard is trying to save hardcore raiders from themselves.

[Larynx]

Cool, now we're going to get one of two situations:

a) People get items that aren't able to be traded but are upgrades for other people, so everyone feels like shit, the item is wasted, and the guild gets a couple extra gold added to its bank.

b) People get items that are bigger upgrades for other people, so any half-decent guild is justifiably going to force everyone to trade away "their" items for the benefit of the guild. Same net effect as ML, but now with twice the drama.

Oh, and with personal loot, now there's even more RNG to the progression scene. If those BIS weapons and trinkets aren't able to be traded, you're either going to hope to god you get lucky, level up 5 of the same class for constant chances at the item, or just do shit damage and be benched.

Yet another amazing change by those geniuses. They somehow gave us an alternative to split running that is actually worse than it is now.

[Deleted]

Dont overlook the fact that the argument that "personal loot gives more loot overall" is moot, as it is constructed that way and it's really easy to just up the number of drops for master loot.

[Aggrophobic]

you dont get the choice as a normal player so 90% of the game gets no choice already its up to the guild leader / officers

why would you think 10% of the playerbase making choices for others is a good thing

Then make your own raid. The choice is yours.

[ramayana1423]

This is a shit reaction from Blizzard to try to kill split runs. Changing the overall loot structure to fix a problem that affects something likie 100 guilds is terrible game design. Removing options from players is bad game design. Adding more RNG into the game, is bad game design. Blizzard seems to really like bad game design lately though.

[IceMan1763]

This is an excellent idea but only if they go all the way with it and make the system right.

1) Remove master loot completely
2) Remove trading BOP items completely
3) Add back luck protection to all high end drops

Split raiding almost completely dies immediately with no trading. No "can I has dat?!?" LFR requests. Dedicated players will get the loot they want through bad luck protection.

If they do this right it will be one of the best design decisions they have made in the last few expansions.

[Sencha]

I welcome this change. No more drama about who should get the loot, no time lost assigning loot to people.

[potis]

95% of the whining posts:

"I am in a bad guild with greedy/bad people and i accept their shit, therefor Master Looter is at fault".

I am really amazed at the logic in mmo-champion once more

[Notdev]

We use EPGP currently. I'm not up in arms about this change, but I think this just makes things more annoying/harder for most semi-serious guilds. Every guild that actually cares about loot optimization is still going to run some sort of loot system for all trade-able loot. And we'll have to run an addon or something to baby the raid to make sure that people don't just trade loot to whoever they feel like.

Also this really reduces guilds' ability to reward people who do things like show up early, never miss raids, being long term raiders, etc. Also are mounts still going to be ML-able or will they be PL too? This just opens up a new can of worms... IMO its a solution to a problem that few had.

Also I don't think this stops split runs, just makes then less efficient. Ultra high end guilds are still going to do 5-6 runs and then just have people bring whatever got the luckiest with loot.

Again, I don't think its the worst thing in the world, I don't mind too much, but I think it brings up more problems than it solves.

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I welcome this change. No more drama about who should get the loot, no time lost assigning loot to people.

You're up for a rude awakening if you think people trading loot to their friends won't cause drama.