Master Loot being purged?

[Malefic]

You won't need to trade it when it will be an upgrade. That's the entire point of balancing primary stats over secondary. The problem we run into now is the secondary stats are so powerful that combined they are better than the ilevel upgrade we get from primary stats. So we're left with items that are downgrades. Aside from funneling loot to others which Blizzard obviously dislikes why would you pass on upgrades you won?

Food for thought.

Hypothetically, primary stat is king, so much so that any item that is higher iLvl is better, regardless of whatever else is on the item.

Player STILL want optimal secondary stats. There is STILL going to be an item that is better than another of equal iLvl.

Let's say Guild A is raiding. They have a Shadow Priest and a Demonology Warlock. Let's say hypothetically the Shadow Priest wants Haste as their main secondary stat, the Demonology Warlock wants Mastery.

Both have iLvl 200 bracers. They approach the raid, bracers drop for the Shadow Priest, 205 iLvl, they're loaded with secondary stats like, 60% mastery, 40% crit. Next boss (because more than one of each armor/slot drops per raid), bracers drop for the Warlock, 205 iLvl, they're loaded with second stats like, 60% haste, 40% crit. Now what? They both have items that are upgrades, but more than likely feel bad about the quality of life of not getting the stats they want.

Also, why would you pass on an upgrade that you won? Because it's better for someone else, when you're in a guild and you're working on that next boss why would you not want to give another player an item if it's better for them than yourself. Why would you take bracers that are 500 DPS increase for you, but 800 DPS increase for the Shadow Priest?

A lot of people feel that split running is solved by having no tier and iLvl being king but it doesn't solve it.

What about trinkets? What about the Agility trinket that procs Nature damage? The one that scales ridiculously with Enhance mastery, the one that the Rogue for example couldn't care less about? What happens when the Rogue gets it and can't use it, vs the Shaman that can, and wants it, and massively gets improved because of it?

What about the caster trinket that procs Shadow damage and scales with Warlock/Shadow Priest modifiers, but actually ends up being looted by the Mages that don't want it?

In Nighthold Convergence of Fates had a different proc rate for each user, so you wanted it on those that took the biggest advantage of the hidden proc rate (For example Retribution Paladins in Nighthold), what about situations like this?

Guilds are borderline organizations, being part of a guild involves working as a team, making an individual sacrifice for another players benefit that improves the entire guild as a whole. Removing any influence on how gear is distributed just undermines what a guild is supposed to be.

[muto]

Why is someone who was present for the kill and helped get a boss down not any more worthy then the others who were there? That's asinine and elitist. If they came in after it was on farm for 4 weeks then maybe, maybe you might have a bit of credibility but regardless if they assisted in the kill they should 100% eligible.

If you're going to deny loot then don't bring the person with. Find someone else. Otherwise you obviously needed them.

Yeah don't worry we won't if this goes through. Rather wait for the main than see a max ilvl item go to a guy that dies a minute into the pull or doesn't know how to play his class.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

you're not helping your boy tharkkun here by defending him while being a gigantic troll

He is right. Doesn't need a hand.

[D3cadent]

I really doubt a potential removal of master loot/friend council is actually targeted towards the top 1% of mythic raiders; the nerf to split runs is just a collateral benefit. And I certainly don't think this is aimed at heroic raiders.

I think Blizzard has decided to correct a long-standing problem of the regular, shitty, world 5000 mythic raiding guilds abusing friend council. Master loot was the only option for a long time, but now Blizzard has a perfect system for "regular" mythic raiders, meaning 90+% of them, and they probably expected personal loot to overtake friend council for the vast majority of these players. But nearly every modern mythic guild, no matter how trash, feels the need to use friend council to distribute loot as if they are counting on the perfect distribution of items to progress.

Frankly, if concerns that someone will run off once they receive loot keeps your guild's friend council giving loot to friends, then your guild is EXACTLY the target audience of personal loot. Optimal gear distribution for killing bosses is not the goal for these kinds of guilds' loot councils. And this sort of loot drama hurts the whole mythic raiding scene if it results in players not finding homes in guilds over the issue of loot. Wondering how long you have to wait before you have an even chance of getting loot as the officer core and their bros (it's forever, by the way) is a fear that will definitely inhibit people from jumping into guilds and higher-end raiding.

The reality is that friend council is not a fair system, but putting players against each other or encouraging people to act in anti-social ways really make it stand out as a problem. Even when looking at groups that try to have "fair" friend councils (they won't be fair, but some do at least try), those players would be better served with personal loot which is actually fair. The problem then turns to the fact that personal loot isn't run by nearly anyone during progression even if it might be perfect for them. I think this is because there is a strong ubiquitous opinion in contemporary raiding that guilds need to run friend council to be optimal, and so they do indeed run it for the sake the of progression. Blizzard wasn't able to counter this by making personal loot more appealing by giving it more loot, so they are going to hard fix the problem by saving people from themselves and forcing personal loot.

Even though I do think players deciding among themselves how to distribute loot is part of the raiding experience, I think the 90% of players that would have stuck with reasonably fair systems like DKP in the past when they worked, today are stuck with friend councils because they think copying Method's loot system will bring them more success. So to save these clowns from their self-inflicted misery, I think master loot has become a necessary casualty.

RIP Friend Council, 2005-2018

Spoken like a truly clueless idiot.

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No, YOU'RE missing the point. Guilds that run splits will now have you run multiple runs with alts of the same class as your "main" and then whichever one of those characters gets the most geared will be your new main. Those guilds and many others are going to find ways to work around it like they always do. It's not going to slow down anything. All it's doing is making it a nightmare for a lot of progression raiding guilds.

I'm confused as to why people that like PL are arguing with people that want to keep ML as an OPTION, we aren't saying that we want ML as the only option for everyone, just let us keep the option to use it. Why can't you guys grasp this?

Because they're complete mouth breathing morons raging about some incident where they think they were 'scammed' out of loot in the past when in reality it was because they were a mouth breathing retard, failed their trial and that meant they didn't get loot they think they're entitled to despite it requiring a group effort to down a boss.

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Good, now I won't have some dweeb nerd guildie dictating what loot I'm 'allowed' to get.

Case in point.

Infracted

[Moozart]

Still wouldn't, doesn't feel like an mmo, and takes away from the raid experience. If I'm raiding, with my guild, I want to see all the loot on the corpse, roll for it, and have the ml give me what I win.

And I'm not going to huff and puff about it, I've posted my opinion to blizzard but if they choose to remove ml I guess I'll have 15 extra bucks a month, no big deal really

That would also not be a big deal to them. I think they are slowly getting to a point where they are making so much extra from wow tokens boosts, pets ect that its going to make up for folks like you that we most likely didn't need anyways.

[kamuimac]

Because they're complete mouth breathing morons raging about some incident where they think they were 'scammed' out of loot in the past when in reality it was because they were a mouth breathing retard, failed their trial and that meant they didn't get loot they think they're entitled to despite it requiring a group effort to down a boss.

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Case in point.

seems like game will be much better if all people prasing ML and bahaving like this will leave the game.

only ensuring devs they are 100% right

but keep abusing people verbally this will help your case for sure.

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That would also not be a big deal to them. I think they are slowly getting to a point where they are making so much extra from wow tokens boosts, pets ect that its going to make up for folks like you that we most likely didn't need anyways.

well wait till they release Vulpera and other racial shit to store for like 50 $ to unlock they could as well remove both mythic and heroic and would make profit from it :P

[Deleted]

Obviously you haven't watched the entire video which your topic was based off of and only the portion that was clipped out. The explanation goes on to talk about split raids and loot funneling direct from Ian's mouth. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/239064071?t=15m33s It starts at 55 mins, 12 seconds.

I never said Master Loot is the cause of split raids. I said split raids are abusing the master loot system for funneling gear to a handful of players. It never was a problem until the new raid lockout system was introduced in Warlords. (Technically end of MOP but the ilevel was for for Flex).

If you want to continue saying I don't understand the topic then be ignorant. I disagree with your opinion. You're welcome to stick to your guns but that doesn't make my opinion wrong.

But why is this bad if the 1-3% of players that are trying to take world first are tunneling gear to certain ppl. How are you affected by it?

[losmarios]

Our guild use ML and LootCouncil for our mythic and heroic raids. We tried one evening on heroic to use personal loot.
It did more harm than good:
* About 50% of loot could be traded, because it wasn't in need. It takes longer then distributing 100% via ML. i.e. ppl post items, players roll, you have to organize that, so that not three items will be post at once. Or another option, maybe you can trade it to the Raidlead and he could LootCouncil for the items
* Some ppl (could) just hand out items to their best frend, if they want, instead of giving it the raid or the player who need it most. Or players "forget" to loot and items will be sent using mail

Another thing will be mythic mounts of the end boss. It there is no more ML, I don't think we, or other mythic guilds will like that a trial or recently joined player will get the first mount from the last boss instead of core members.

[Bigbazz]

This is one of the many directions BFA is taking that is ensuring BFA will be the first WoW expansion I don't buy. I'm at the point where I'm apathetic towards WoW in general, BFA needed to take steps in the right direction to peak my interest but it has done the opposite, time to move on I think.

[burek]

But why is this bad if the 1-3% of players that are trying to take world first are tunneling gear to certain ppl. How are you affected by it?

because the content is tuned with that in mind and affects everyone. guilds that do split runs gear up and progress faster

[Seramore]

because the content is tuned with that in mind and affects everyone. guilds that do split runs gear up and progress faster

I mean you could say content has been tuned around split runs since the game came out with that thought process. Obviously raids have certain fights that are tuned around tight gear requirements, and new content is made easier with more gear; this isn't foreign to the game.

[Aggrophobic]

get blizzard to have every player in the raid to enable master loot before master loot is turned on if 1 player sets it to personal loot everyone will have personal loot

this is the only way they should keep it in the game

Why? That seems pointless. Just make your own raid or join one that uses the loot rules you prefer.

[Aggrophobic]

you are pressured into playing a certain way or master loot may be turned on half way though the raid

that happened to me last week so i had to ditch the group very annoying

Can you not read? Make your own group and the problem is gone or join a guild with set loot rules.
You're seeing problems where there aren't any.

[lummiuster]

I hope they do. Master loot is fuckin aid to the game.
Since everyone has different stat priority, everyone is getting their BIS so fast. It is ruining the game. Every new raid tier, there is only one boss you want to kill for a given piece rather than having the excitement with every boss you kill.

Yes on average guilds will be weaker but they also said it would allow them to make raids less hard. Which is also a huge plus for people who pug often.
It is non sense that in mythic guilds almost everyone has their best in slot on each piece. Achieving this should be muuuch harder or the game is broke.

[Deleted]

Excellent. Death to split raids. Get good and learn how to play. 99% of you clear shit with better gear then you need. This only effects world 10 guilds and welp sucks to be them. Maybe content will now last longer cause they can't gear the fuck out of it. Can't wait for the salt. mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

As long as gear remains tradeable it won't mean death to split raids.

[Aggrophobic]

can you not read? anyone who has their loot mode set to personal should not have master loot forced apon them

if a guild wants to use master loot every single one of the players in the run should have to set the raid to master loot so none is taking advantage of

No one is forcing you. You may leave at any time.

[Seramore]

can you not read? anyone who has their loot mode set to personal should not have master loot forced apon them

if a guild wants to use master loot every single one of the players in the run should have to set the raid to master loot so none is taking advantage of

Literally what? Guilds establish what kind of loot system they have in their application process and/or guild information pages. You're signing yourself up to being "taking advantage of" by applying to a guild that uses that said system if you don't enjoy it. Why the fuck would you allow yourself to be in an environment where you don't like the way loot is being handled?

[Deleted]

How about a pl/ml hybrid?

PL/ML hybrid will only be forced if 80%(?) of players inside the raid are from your guild (just as it is now with ML)

1. It's simply not fun to distribute loot since you either have to trade it to leader who then distributes it,
or you have to distribute it yourself once lead made the call -- just the entire process of distributing loot yourself is annoying.
e.g searching for the player, trading him, etc...

A slight improvement would be that only items that are an upgrade for your are added to your bag immediately -
all other items will be remain with the boss and can only be distributed by the leader.

This way a) you could keep any upgrades, which always feels good since you don't have to compete for loot.
b) loot you don't need is immediately sent to lead, who then distributes it c) splitraids remain nerfed
d) lead still distributes less loot

other issue I see with PL:

2. Imagine 960 hands drop on first boss and 965 (wf) on second boss.
This will cause some toxicity since you can't trade the 965 items even though it's just a slight upgrade and someone in your group would've gained 20-30 ilvl off it.

An easy fix would obviously be that you can trade any items that are just +5/10 ilvl better than yours.
Tbh it never felt bad to lose out on an item that's just a 5ilvl upgrade.

other than that-- I like PL

[vsb]

How about a pl/ml hybrid?

PL/ML hybrid will only be forced if 80%(?) of players inside the raid are from your guild (just as it is now with ML)

1. It's simply not fun to distribute loot since you either have to trade it to leader who then distributes it,
or you have to distribute it yourself once lead made the call -- just the entire process of distributing loot yourself is annoying.
e.g searching for the player, trading him, etc...

A slight improvement would be that only items that are an upgrade for your are added to your bag immediately -
all other items will be remain with the boss and can only be distributed by the leader.

This way a) you could keep any upgrades, which always feels good since you don't have to compete for loot.
b) loot you don't need is immediately sent to lead, who then distributes it c) splitraids remain nerfed
d) lead still distributes less loot

other issue I see with PL:

2. Imagine 960 hands drop on first boss and 965 (wf) on second boss.
This will cause some toxicity since you can't trade the 965 items even though it's just a slight upgrade and someone in your group would've gained 20-30 ilvl off it.

An easy fix would obviously be that you can trade any items that are just +5/10 ilvl better than yours.
Tbh it never felt bad to lose out on an item that's just a 5ilvl upgrade.

other than that-- I like PL

I think that your idea is awesome. The only questionable part is that my loot will be left in corpse unconditionally if it's not ilvl upgrade for me. It might have better stats or I may want to keep it for my alt spec. Seems to be against personal loot spirit.

But probably Blizzard won't implement anything like that and we will stuck with buggy addons next expansion.

[Seramore]

How about a pl/ml hybrid?

PL/ML hybrid will only be forced if 80%(?) of players inside the raid are from your guild (just as it is now with ML)

1. It's simply not fun to distribute loot since you either have to trade it to leader who then distributes it,
or you have to distribute it yourself once lead made the call -- just the entire process of distributing loot yourself is annoying.
e.g searching for the player, trading him, etc...

A slight improvement would be that only items that are an upgrade for your are added to your bag immediately -
all other items will be remain with the boss and can only be distributed by the leader.

This way a) you could keep any upgrades, which always feels good since you don't have to compete for loot.
b) loot you don't need is immediately sent to lead, who then distributes it c) splitraids remain nerfed
d) lead still distributes less loot

other issue I see with PL:

2. Imagine 960 hands drop on first boss and 965 (wf) on second boss.
This will cause some toxicity since you can't trade the 965 items even though it's just a slight upgrade and someone in your group would've gained 20-30 ilvl off it.

An easy fix would obviously be that you can trade any items that are just +5/10 ilvl better than yours.
Tbh it never felt bad to lose out on an item that's just a 5ilvl upgrade.

other than that-- I like PL

I don't get it, this is exactly the way it works ingame now with the exception of nobody being forced to use a loot type in a guild group.