Mag'har Orc Class Lineup?

[Kieldon]

They aren't holy. It should be pretty obvious they get priests from the Shadowmoon and they are all shadow. Just like within the lore, Forsaken are 99.9999% shadow.

Of course the lore says otherwise. Holy Undead and void elves don't make sense just like shadow lightforged. But Holy Orcs just seem like the most hilarious combination yet.

[Bigby]

...... What? There are specific light Loa (Rezan) and shadow and the void doesn't fit? Wuuuuuuuuut? Bwomsamdi, G'huun, Ueetay no Mueh'zala, they are all Loa of shadow, death, insanity etc.

That's very new lore. Troll Priests spent years without any explanation for their powers beyond vague, undefined 'Loa or something' and that was it.

[Venziir]

That's very new lore. Troll Priests spent years without any explanation for their powers beyond vague, undefined 'Loa or something' and that was it.

.... Erm... Hakkar? The evil blood god, who corrupted everything and had his priests turn trolls into zombies using mind-magic etc? Besides, since vanilla, the voodoo of the trolls have been shown as shadow magic.

[Maljinwo]

But Holy Orcs just seem like the most hilarious combination yet.

At least until Void Elves who go Holy start imploding in raids as soon as they try to cast anything

[Venziir]

Of course the lore says otherwise. Holy Undead and void elves don't make sense just like shadow lightforged. But Holy Orcs just seem like the most hilarious combination yet.

To be, nothing is as silly as a LIGHTforged SHADOW priest. Though yes, HOLY priest VOID elf is a tough one too.

Oh and speaking of orc priests; it's quite relevant, to point out that the entire shadow school, created by Natalie Seline was based upon the orc necrolytes and their magic. And Xal'atath was even used by orcs at one point.

[madokbro]

Priesthood works as long as you have powerful faith in the might of the Light or Void. It is a form of spellcasting, you don't need to subscribe to the religion of light in order have faith in its power and necessity in a given situation. Nowhere does it suggest that having Void, Loa or Celestial affinity forces you out of the usage of Light magic, as far as I'm aware.

It will hurt, but a Void Elf can still use the Light, and a Lightforged can use the Void. In the case of Lightforged it is a great offense.

[Villager720]

Its been suggested for a long time, but with the addition of new druid forms that imply the Zandalari/Kul'tirans aren't really using traditional druidism - the other "iffy" class/race combos need some visual differentiation with their spells.

Dark Iron paladins can be "fiery". Mag'har priests can be more spiritual/ancestor based and less light focused. Tauren priests/paladins can get in on that fire/sun goodness with the Dark Irons. Give trolls some loa stuff for their priests. Night Elves/Nightborne can get some Elune stuffs.
It would add "flavor" and a lot of this could be handled with some minor pigmentation shifts. It would be certainly less work than the new druid models.

[Bigby]

.... Erm... Hakkar? The evil blood god, who corrupted everything and had his priests turn trolls into zombies using mind-magic etc? Besides, since vanilla, the voodoo of the trolls have been shown as shadow magic.

Right, shadow magic. Not Holy (or Disc). That's the point I'm making. Priest as a class have usually had one or two specs that their home culture has absolutely no connection to. The Mag'har are just a continuation of what has been an issue for their class/race combinations since Vanilla.

[Venziir]

Right, shadow magic. Not Holy (or Disc). That's the point I'm making. Priest as a class have usually had one or two specs that their home culture has absolutely no connection to. The Mag'har are just a continuation of what has been an issue for their class/race combinations since Vanilla.

Hm, must've misunderstood you then, since you wrote "neither Light nor Shadow really fit Loa worship", I thought you meant that Shadow didn't fit troll priests, my bad if that's the case.

[RedNein]

It probably wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't given Discipline the fire & brimstone theme in addition to Holy's angelic touches. If the former were a bit more flexible I think most of these class/race dissonance issues would be easier to swallow.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh right! Yeah sure, with the stones and everything. Besides, orcs are remnants of a titanforged race, like humans and ogres, which means they are actually quite adept at using the arcane.

The Arcane doesn't seem to be an intuitive subject. You either need someone to teach it to you or you need some big source of arcane stuff to study and kick the whole thing off even if you are a titanforged. Whether it's just Apexis/Titan Stones or just straight ogre magic, Mag'har orcs actually have better lore reasons for Mages than regular orcs do (ie: going to live in Undercity for a few years and going mildly crazy in the process).

[AbalDarkwind]

Eh, Orc Holy/Discipline Priests can make sense. With Draenor at peace, we have to assume the Mag'har and Draenei of Draenor made peace at the end of WoD. It's not out of the question for the Draenei to have taken on some Orc disciples, especially some Shadowmoon Orcs looking to make amends.

I'm also for adding some flavor spells/cultural explanations for weird race/class combos, but frankly, we aren't likely to see such a thing until 9.0 at the earliest.

[Venziir]

It probably wouldn't be so bad if they hadn't given Discipline the fire & brimstone theme in addition to Holy's angelic touches. If the former were a bit more flexible I think most of these class/race dissonance issues would be easier to swallow.

- - - Updated - - -



The Arcane doesn't seem to be an intuitive subject. You either need someone to teach it to you or you need some big source of arcane stuff to study and kick the whole thing off even if you are a titanforged. Whether it's just Apexis/Titan Stones or just straight ogre magic, Mag'har orcs actually have better lore reasons for Mages than regular orcs do (ie: going to live in Undercity for a few years and going mildly crazy in the process).

99.9% sure that Chronicle Vol 2, states that all the titanforged races and their "lesser" versions have an affinity for the arcane because of their titanic origins.

[AwkwardSquirtle]

I'm not like zealously against the idea, it just seems a little odd to me. Orcs to me just aren't creatures of faith, they put value in deeds and the actions of their ancestors, not some faceless entity that could be anything. They seem a much more "I believe what I see" kind of race.

Did you play Shadowmoon Valley? They saw themselves being pretty conclusively beaten by a massive glowing chandelier, and they're apparently friends with the Draenei now (DRAENOR IS FREE!111!!!1) who I'm sure would be only too happy to teach these heathens the path of the light.

[RedNein]

99.9% sure that Chronicle Vol 2, states that all the titanforged races and their "lesser" versions have an affinity for the arcane because of their titanic origins.

You're absolutely right, it also mentions that the Arakkoa were astonished when Ogres took to it so readily. Similarly humans had zero knowledge, but once the High Elves taught them they took off like a rocket. I imagine orcs are similar.

[Venziir]

You're absolutely right, it also mentions that the Arakkoa were astonished when Ogres took to it so readily. Similarly humans had zero knowledge, but once the High Elves taught them they took off like a rocket. I imagine orcs are similar.

Exactly yes. Now to decide if my orc mage should remain an orc, become a mag'har or a zandalari hmmm...

[RedNein]

I know my little lore theory will never see the light of day given Blizzard's track record, but I really dig that there's a new strain of arcane tradition that basically goes:
Arakkoa > Ogre > Orc

Rather than the traditional:
Ancient Nightelf > Highborne > High Elf > Dalaran > Everyone Else

I wonder if there's a loa of the arcane or if the Zandalari just picked it up / developed it somewhere.

[Venziir]

I know my little lore theory will never see the light of day given Blizzard's track record, but I really dig that there's a new strain of arcane tradition that basically goes:
Arakkoa > Ogre > Orc

Rather than the traditional:
Ancient Nightelf > Highborne > High Elf > Dalaran > Everyone Else

I wonder if there's a loa of the arcane or if the Zandalari just picked it up / developed it somewhere.

Hm, well might be some ancient Titan artifacts that the Zandalari looted from Uldir that started the whole "troll mage"-thing

[derpkitteh]

like, i'm all for orc priests. it's long overdo i think.

but shadowmoon being the justification for it seems weird to me. it was completely forbidden for centuries, and many were against ner'zhul breaking that taboo. his mate still lives, and is likely the default leader of what remains of the clan. knowing what it did to the whole clan, and ner'zhul specifically, why would she allow its use to continue?

[In Ogres We Trust]

like, i'm all for orc priests. it's long overdo i think.

but shadowmoon being the justification for it seems weird to me. it was completely forbidden for centuries, and many were against ner'zhul breaking that taboo. his mate still lives, and is likely the default leader of what remains of the clan. knowing what it did to the whole clan, and ner'zhul specifically, why would she allow its use to continue?

She wouldn't, but Blizzard doesn't give a f*** about the lore. To them, it's the "Rule of Cool," and since they need to maintain and enhance their subscription base, the "Rule of Cool" wins out over coherent stories and lore (which, of course, is another reason why I've come to hate the game and lore in its present state, i.e. there's no mystery, characters are kept past their prime, story arcs are inconsistent, raiding and the "Rule of Cool" take priority over everything else, faction identities have been weakened, etc.). Everything about the game has been watered down to accommodate the MAU model over the MMO-RPG model and its traditional elements.

P.S. And High Elves and Ogres AREN'T playable!

[Maljinwo]

knowing what it did to the whole clan, and ner'zhul specifically, why would she allow its use to continue?

The mag'har are going to war in an alternate universe in another planet.
I believe everything they do after that is justified for the sake of conquering stuff.

Besides, the void is the only thing they could use to separate both orcs