Chinese reaveals plans for lots of Subs & Aircraft Carriers

[Skroe]

You should probably read this.

President-for-Life Xi Jinping is going to bequeth his country the same thing every other President-for-life ever has.

An ossified political and economic system as a graying and fading elderly generation of leaders seeks to hold onto power and influence from the upstarts who would supplant them and modernize and reform.

In fact, this very problem is what lead to the 10 year period for Chinese leadership generations (two five year terms). The issue of succession is the most important, and most intractable problem among great powers historically. Every empire, every major country has had a reckoning with that at one point or another. The Western World has entirely figured that out. Russia and China struggle as if nothing has been learned about how bad ruling for life truly is for a country, despite thousands of years of trying

So no, China and its leader have nothing to offer the Western world.

[NED funded]

You should probably read this.

Do you want him to read blatant propaganda??? I have my doubts even party officials read these sort of shit.

[ItsRainingMetal]

I wonder why Uncle Sam has to come all the way there then?

Oh me too. Feel free to pack up and leave.

[Terracresta]

Well I do feel the USA Allies need to give payback to the US for protection

It must be costing US Taxpayers a lot ..

I believe, Australia & New Zealand taxpayers give some money to the Queen
Who will not protect us during times of conflict.
Maybe say some speach

But during WW2 , the USA sacraficed lives for Australia & NZ... will never forget that

Protection? Destablizing an entire region creating a power vacuum that led to the rise of IS and in return to a massive flood of refugees and then making others take them in is nothing I would call proctection. Also the "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, we are allowed to invade" is not far from what Hitler did by staging an attack from Poland. We all know that they didn't.
Get off this trip that the USA is the world police. Also they did enough shit themselves. The Banana Wars, Vietnam etc. Guantanamo still open? If another country, lets say the Iran would have such a camp (maybe even on another country's soil like Guantanamo is) the USA would be one of the loudest to cry out.

USA = triggerhappy

Another thing is that the USA mainly joined WWII because they feared Russia would take over Europe. They were quite happy with Hitler for a while. Also they cladly burn the lives of their own people in wars like Vietnam. Many US Americans are just to blind and happly join. Patriotism is Nationalism and we often see where this leads to.

[Sunseeker]

Long story short: subs and aircraft carriers are expensive and require the infrastructure and resources to develop and construct them. If China can do this well...okay I don't really have a problem with that. But it's a major impact on the economy to divert the sort of manpower and resources to this sort of thing, it will be interesting to see how the Chinese economy fares when it starts moving in this direction.

That is to say: China will now have to decide on if they want to construct ghost towns in africa of more aircraft carriers, even if manpower isn't a problem, it's a matter of allocation of resources.

Russia build a "great white navy" once...then it sat around and rotted away. Maybe the Chinese adventure in navy building will be the same, maybe it wont. It'll be interesting to see.

Meanwhile, the US still has eleven carrier groups. Eight of which are in operation at any given time. We've got some padding before China catches up.

[Azadina]

Protection? Destablizing an entire region creating a power vacuum that led to the rise of IS and in return to a massive flood of refugees and then making others take them in is nothing I would call proctection. Also the "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction, we are allowed to invade" is not far from what Hitler did by staging an attack from Poland. We all know that they didn't.
Get off this trip that the USA is the world police. Also they did enough shit themselves. The Banana Wars, Vietnam etc. Guantanamo still open? If another country, lets say the Iran would have such a camp (maybe even on another country's soil like Guantanamo is) the USA would be one of the loudest to cry out.

USA = triggerhappy

Another thing is that the USA mainly joined WWII because they feared Russia would take over Europe. They were quite happy with Hitler for a while. Also they cladly burn the lives of their own people in wars like Vietnam. Many US Americans are just to blind and happly join. Patriotism is Nationalism and we often see where this leads to.

Correction: They mainly joined because of Pearl Harbor. The public opinion of that time was very much against joining the war, until they were hit themselves. Then the opinion changed to opposite.

[I Push Buttons]

Russia: "Stealth fighters are a useless waste of money, we will easily shoot them down!"
*in the process of trying to make its own stealth fighter fleet*

China: "Aircraft carriers are a useless waste of money, we will easily sink them!"
*in the process of trying to make its own aircraft carrier fleet*

[breadisfunny]

USA should have crushed China in the Korean war after the ungreatful fool's attacked our forces in Korea right after we saved them from the Japanese. We have had multiple opportunities to pit them in their place and keep failing to do so. It should be done sooner rather than later.

oh yes nuke china and start world war three and end civilization because cruor doesn't like china.

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China should crush USA once and for all for its atrocities.

with over 6,000 nuclear warheads. more nuclear missle subs than the rest of the world combined more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined and one of the most technalogically advanced armies in the world. LOLOLOLOLOL. i have three words for you: BRING IT ON. china doesn't even have a single long range nuclear missle. the only thing it has on it's side is numbers.

[Deleted]

Uh, they have bought an ukranian one n a russian one, have built one of their own n in progress of building larger ones, that is old news..

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with over 6,000 nuclear warheads. more nuclear missle subs than the rest of the world combined more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined and one of the most technalogically advanced armies in the world. LOLOLOLOLOL. i have three words for you: BRING IT ON. china doesn't even have a single long range nuclear missle. the only thing it has on it's side is numbers.

Ur wrong.

Dongfeng-41


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USA should have crushed China in the Korean war after the ungreatful fool's attacked our forces in Korea right after we saved them from the Japanese. We have had multiple opportunities to pit them in their place and keep failing to do so. It should be done sooner rather than later.

You didn't do shit, it was the red army that killed millions of japanese troops on the mainland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...n_of_Manchuria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_War
Ur welcome

[Tierbook]

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You didn't do shit, it was the red army that killed millions of japanese troops.

I'm going to be doubtful on this since Japan only lost like 2.3mil troops, Japan cites the number of Dead in China at 1/4 to 1/3 of that total, though China Claims something like 80% of that total died in China.

[Firatha]

Uh, they have bought an ukranian one n a russian one, have built one of their own n in progress of building larger ones, that is old news..

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Ur wrong.

Dongfeng-41


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You didn't do shit, it was the red army that killed millions of japanese troops on the mainland.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet...n_of_Manchuria
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet–Japanese_War
Ur welcome

"Soviet claim:83,737 killed" That sure reads like millions right....right?

[Deleted]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/08...sed-bombs.html

Historians: Soviet offensive, key to Japan's WWII surrender, was eclipsed by A-bombs

Published August 14, 2010 Associated Press

As the United States dropped its atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945, 1.6 million Soviet troops launched a surprise attack on the Japanese army occupying eastern Asia. Within days, Emperor Hirohito's million-man army in the region had collapsed.

It was a momentous turn on the Pacific battleground of World War II, yet one that would be largely eclipsed in the history books by the atomic bombs dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in the same week 65 years ago. But in recent years some historians have argued that the Soviet action served as effectively as — or possibly more than — the A-bombs in ending the war.

Now a new history by a professor at University of California, Santa Barbara seeks to reinforce that view, arguing that fear of Soviet invasion persuaded the Japanese to opt for surrender to the Americans, who they believed would treat them more generously than the Soviets.

Japan's forces in northeast Asia first tangled with the Russians in 1939 when the Japanese army tried to invade Mongolia. Their crushing defeat at the battle of Khalkin Gol induced Tokyo to sign a neutrality pact that kept the USSR out of the Pacific war.

Tokyo turned its focus to confronting U.S., British and Dutch forces instead, which led to the Pearl Harbor attack on Dec. 7, 1941.

But following the German surrender on May 8, 1945, and having suffered a string of defeats in the Philippines, Okinawa and Iwo Jima, Japan turned to Moscow to mediate an end to the Pacific war.

However, Soviet leader Joseph Stalin had already secretly promised Washington and London that he would attack Japan within three months of Germany's defeat. He thus ignored Tokyo's plea, and mobilized more than a million troops along Manchuria's border.

Operation August Storm was launched Aug. 9, 1945, as the Nagasaki bomb was dropped, and would claim the lives of 84,000 Japanese and 12,000 Soviet soldiers in two weeks of fighting. The Soviets ended up just 50 kilometers (30 miles) from Japan's main northern island, Hokkaido.

"The Soviet entry into the war played a much greater role than the atomic bombs in inducing Japan to surrender because it dashed any hope that Japan could terminate the war through Moscow's mediation," said Tsuyoshi Hasegawa, whose recently published "Racing the Enemy" examines the conclusion of the Pacific war and is based on recently declassified Soviet archives as well as U.S. and Japanese documents..

"The emperor and the peace party (within the government) hastened to end the war expecting that the Americans would deal with Japan more generously than the Soviets," Hasegawa, a Russian-speaking American scholar, said in an interview.

Despite the death toll from the atomic bombings — 140,000 in Hiroshima, 80,000 in Nagasaki the Imperial Military Command believed it could hold out against an Allied invasion if it retained control of Manchuria and Korea, which provided Japan with the resources for war, according to Hasegawa and Terry Charman, a historian of World War II at London's Imperial War Museum.

"The Soviet attack changed all that," Charman said. "The leadership in Tokyo realized they had no hope now, and in that sense August Storm did have a greater effect on the Japanese decision to surrender than the dropping of the A-bombs."

In the U.S., the bombings are still widely seen as a decision of last resort against an enemy that appeared determined to fight to the death. President Harry S. Truman and U.S. military leaders believed an invasion of Japan would cost hundreds of thousands of American lives.

American historian Richard B. Frank has argued that as terrible as the atomic bombs were, they saved hundreds of thousands of American soldiers and millions of Japanese troops and civilians who would have perished if the conflict had gone on until 1946.

"In the famous words of Secretary of War Henry Stimson, (the bombs) were the 'least abhorrent choice' of a dreadful array of option facing American leaders," he said in an interview. "Alternatives to the atomic bombs carried no guarantee as to when they would end the war and carried a far higher price in human death and suffering."

Frank, who is writing a three-volume history of the Pacific war, said he continued to disagree with Hasegawa on the relative importance of the Soviet intervention and the A-bombs in forcing the surrender decision.

But he said they agreed that ultimate responsibility for what happened lay with Japan's government and Hirohito, who had decided in June to draft almost the entire population, men and most women, to fight to the death.

"Since no provision had been made to place these people in uniform, invading Allied troops would have not been able to distinguish combatants from non-combatants, effectively turning each village in Japan into a military target," Frank said.

The impact of the lightning Soviet advance comes through in the words of Japan's wartime prime minister, Kantaro Suzuki, urging his cabinet to surrender.

He is quoted in Hasegawa's book as saying, "If we miss (the chance) today, the Soviet Union will take not only Manchuria, Korea and Sakhalin, but also Hokkaido. We must end the war while we can deal with the United States."

V-J Day, the day Japan ceased fighting, came on Aug. 15 (Aug. 14 in the U.S.), and Japan's formal surrender followed on Sept. 2.

Dominic Lieven, a professor of Russian government at the London School of Economics, said anti-Soviet sentiment in the West tended to minimize Soviet military achievements.

Also, "very few Anglo-Americans saw the Soviet offensive in the Far East with their own eyes, and Soviet archives were not open to Western historians subsequently," he said.

More surprising, even in Russia the campaign was largely ignored. Although the scale of the Soviet victory was unprecedented, 12,000 dead against Japan hardly compared with the life-and-death struggle against Nazi Germany, in which 27 million Soviets died.

"The importance of the operation was huge," said retired Gen. Makhmut Gareyev, president of the Russian Academy of Military Sciences, who took part in the 1945 campaign. "By entering the war with militarist Japan ... the Soviet Union precipitated the end of World War II."

[Jonnusthegreat]

This is a good thing for the world. US and China are allies.

[Lemons]

China is going to implode in on itself before they are ever a threat to us. They kind of have a habit of creating retarded governments who kill millions of their own citizens and it looks like they're on track for another round.

[Christan]

New account, and using racist terms...not to mention anime is traditionally japanese, with the word having french roots not chinese...
Chins post is so full of wrong no matter how you look at it...
On topic, perhaps the Chinese government isnt bothering developing their own carriers as just doing troop training on different ones for the purposes of sinking them if needed, instead of just building a huge set to train troops they just got one or two used carriers at a discount?
A way to save money and give practical training, thumbs up.

Even though im from the US, any war scenarios that dont involve WMDs makes me feel better, as long as humanity survives the next war barely anything else matters.

Reminds me of a quote...forget who/what but it was “i dont know what wwiii will be fought with, but wwiv will be fought with sticks and stones”

[Tiwack]

South china sea isn't gonna protect itself... China could really use some reforms to allow for more parties in that sad joke of a parlament they have e.g. to oppose and prevent people from becoming president for life.

Russia: "Stealth fighters are a useless waste of money, we will easily shoot them down!"
*in the process of trying to make its own stealth fighter fleet*

China: "Aircraft carriers are a useless waste of money, we will easily sink them!"
*in the process of trying to make its own aircraft carrier fleet*

Wonder if that'll work too if you insert moon- or mars base instead
or fight global warming.

[Ghostpanther]

They would need lots, lots, lots, lots and lots of them. Even then, they would get their asses handed to them in a all out war with any major nation, because they would have to contend with the US. As Putin said, the only the true super power in the world is the US.

[Deleted]

As Putin said, the only the true super power in the world is the US.

Haha, you believe the things Putin says? LOL!

[Deleted]

I will greatly enjoy observing American and Chinese rivalry over decades to come.

Who will eat who?

[Deleted]

I will greatly enjoy observing American and Chinese rivalry over decades to come.

Who will eat who?

That dragon is gonna turn that eagle to a charred crisp.