Fact or Opinion: Sylvanas indirectly killed Varian

[MrHappy]

Actually Jaina is the reason he's dead because she refused to play ball and was not there when it mattered but hey let's blame the horde on the brink of death for alliance own incompetence

[Arrashi]

Actually Jaina is the reason he's dead because she refused to play ball and was not there when it mattered but hey let's blame the horde on the brink of death for alliance own incompetence

Obviously jaina set him up.

[MatadorMedia]

Sylvanas did cover his flank. Then she retreated and so did the Alliance. Varian did not die from a flank attack; he died because there was a giant fel monstrosity summoned below his ship and Varian attacked it to free his ship (and his people). There is no scenario where Sylvanas maintaining her position on top of the cliff would have saved Varian.

[Deleted]

No. she did not indirectly killed Varian, i hate her as a charcter more then problay anyone, but she did not Kill him. Horde was forced to do a retret.

[Krigaren]

Horrible communication killed Varian. Normally, retreats require a bit more coordination than "I blew my horn. Good luck." After spending so much of their life fighting in a war, you would think they would have some of these basics down already.

All the co-ordination that's required with a retreat is to yell, "Retreat!" If they could have spared forces to cover the retreat that would have been one thing, but it was clear they didn't.

Also, the horn was as immediate of a warning as Sylvannas could have given, and Varian and Genn knew exactly what it meant the moment they heard it since that's when they started their evacuation as well.

Varian was killed after he had already made it to the airship. There's no way Sylvannas nor the Horde could have forseen or saved Varian from the fel reaver, short of sacrificing Horde troops (who were in no position to help, physically or tactically) to try to distract it.

Not only that, but that fel reaver was probably dropping down one way or another, and if the retreat horn hadn't been blown, it would have appeared directly behind the Alliance host (given where it was summoned in the cinematic) which would have cut off the Alliance's escape route. They would have been surrounded with no where to run, and far more would have died.

Sylvannas had nothing to do with anything that happened to the Alliance forces, and actually likely saved them from annihilation.

[Deleted]

Tbh Blizzard killed him off. Noone needs to wait for the last moments of the Legion cinematic to understand that the character writing this kind of letter to his son is going to die.

Not to mention that the majority of the orc characters should be ashamed that the only one that chose not tto surrender and die by the sword was a human . Try and find some honor there Mr. Saurfang

[Ash123]

Also, the horn was as immediate of a warning as Sylvannas could have given, and Varian and Genn knew exactly what it meant the moment they heard it since that's when they started their evacuation as well.

Varian was killed after he had already made it to the airship. There's no way Sylvannas nor the Horde could have forseen or saved Varian from the fel reaver, short of sacrificing Horde troops (who were in no position to help, physically or tactically) to try to distract it.

Yes, essentially Alliance and Horde retreated at the same time (both react to Sylvanas's retreating horn), there was never a situation in which Alliance's flank is exposed.

I am always wondering how people could not grab such a simple fact for the cinematic, which did a reasonable good job to cover the situation.

[Deleted]

Felguard indirectly killed Varian when his polearm slipped into his chest.

[Verdugo]

Yes, essentially Alliance and Horde retreated at the same time (both react to Sylvanas's retreating horn), there was never a situation in which Alliance's flank is exposed.

I am always wondering how people could not grab such a simple fact for the cinematic, which did a reasonable good job to cover the situation.

Blizzard doesnt help with the matter, have you seen them trying to hype the alliance before the expansion reveal?

[Deleted]

Hmmm

Id say since Gul Dan was merely toying around without exposing his complete force, the attack on the broken shore would have been lost anyway.

Also as much as I despise Sylvanas, I highly doubt that it would have been her plan to get Varian killed, it wouldn't have served her by any means. Sylvanas is terryfied of dying. During Legion the Aliiance and Varian was the shield that protected her against the Legion aswell.

Everything changed once the Legion was defeated and Sylvanas found out about Azerite, which led her grew some balls. But before that it was in her interest to get the Legion defeated just for the sake of her own survival.

Of course she was totally fine with him dying as a consequence, but it was not her plan to begin with, also it wouldn't have changed the outcome if both were to stay to continue the assault. Gul'dan has set up a trap there, he knew that he had to fight the full power of the Alliance and Horde and was eager to win.

[Doffen]

What? You guys didn't see the cinematic? She directly killed him. Did you all miss the Shatter Arrow she pierced through him while Gul'dan tried to save his life?

Some people..

[Kraddark]

All the co-ordination that's required with a retreat is to yell, "Retreat!" If they could have spared forces to cover the retreat that would have been one thing, but it was clear they didn't.

Also, the horn was as immediate of a warning as Sylvannas could have given, and Varian and Genn knew exactly what it meant the moment they heard it since that's when they started their evacuation as well.

Varian was killed after he had already made it to the airship. There's no way Sylvannas nor the Horde could have forseen or saved Varian from the fel reaver, short of sacrificing Horde troops (who were in no position to help, physically or tactically) to try to distract it.

Not only that, but that fel reaver was probably dropping down one way or another, and if the retreat horn hadn't been blown, it would have appeared directly behind the Alliance host (given where it was summoned in the cinematic) which would have cut off the Alliance's escape route. They would have been surrounded with no where to run, and far more would have died.

Sylvannas had nothing to do with anything that happened to the Alliance forces, and actually likely saved them from annihilation.

The only reason the Fel Reaver was able to grab the airship was because of the shoddy retreat strategy. You normally hold the line as vital aspects of your army retreat. If you're retreat is simply "every man for himself" you've failed. If the two armies communicated properly, they would've recognized the need for a retreat sooner and agreed to move back together. Maybe more Horde would've died but it would've saved some Alliance lives which is sometimes necessary in a joint-operation.

The logical thing to do in this kind of battle is to have a commander who is in charge of coordinating BOTH Alliance and Horde forces. It doesn't make sense to put two commanders on the front-lines and give them each half the army. They WILL see different things and they WILL make decisions that confuse the other. That is why the Alliance was so confused by the Horde's retreat. They had no one there to explain the situation.

I'm not saying its Sylvanas' fault Varian died. She wasn't even Warchief of the Horde when this horrible plan was made.

[Martymark]

-Stormwind Intelligence, run by Dreadlords, set up the Broken Shore plan.
-3 Legion spaceships destroyed the Horde army, and took out Thrall and Baine.
-The exact instant the Horde heard the retreat signal, the Alliance did as well, and they knew what it was.
-Felbats had no effect on the Alliance or Varian's death, which is what the Horde were supposed to stop.

So yes, Sylvanas betrayed and murdered Varian.

[Eon Drache]

The only reason the Fel Reaver was able to grab the airship was because of the shoddy retreat strategy. You normally hold the line as vital aspects of your army retreat. If you're retreat is simply "every man for himself" you've failed. If the two armies communicated properly, they would've recognized the need for a retreat sooner and agreed to move back together. Maybe more Horde would've died but it would've saved some Alliance lives which is sometimes necessary in a joint-operation.

The logical thing to do in this kind of battle is to have a commander who is in charge of coordinating BOTH Alliance and Horde forces. It doesn't make sense to put two commanders on the front-lines and give them each half the army. They WILL see different things and they WILL make decisions that confuse the other. That is why the Alliance was so confused by the Horde's retreat. They had no one there to explain the situation.

I'm not saying its Sylvanas' fault Varian died. She wasn't even Warchief of the Horde when this horrible plan was made.

firmly disagree. I don't like Sylvanas or Varian, but both armies had reached their airships. The Reaver would have grabbed the airship regardless. Or are you telling me some armies on the ground where the reaver landed would have been able to withstand what was basically a meteor crashing down. The Horde and Alliance didnt move back together. The entire thing was a trap. Confirmed in game. If anything the broken shore is the alliance's fault for the faulty information they allowed to reach through a spy of the Legion.

[Jonwho]

Where is the "WTF" option?

[Deleted]

I think Varian's mother indirectly killed his son by giving him birth. Or probably it was Varian grandmother fault, or probably the grandmother of Varian grandmother.......

[Krigaren]

The only reason the Fel Reaver was able to grab the airship was because of the shoddy retreat strategy.

Given that the entire Alliance force was on the airships and they were pushing off when the fel reaver grabbed it, I'm not sure what strategy you think would have worked better.

Like, seriously, they were loaded up on the bus and they were starting to drive off, what more could they have done when a 10 story tall mechanical demon literally drops from the sky and grabbed them?

The whole "every man for themselves" retreat was kind of the point. That's what Blizz was trying to convey. Both armies were shattered and they were just trying to get tf off the island. It was survival mode.

[Swalload]

Actually varian indirectly killed himself !

Very directly killed himself. He could have hopped on the airship, he decided to let go and get smashed by a demon without really achieving anything in the process.

[Maljinwo]

Very directly killed himself. He could have hopped on the airship, he decided to let go and get smashed by a demon without really achieving anything in the process.

Or... you know. He could've allowed Thrall to smash Garrosh's skull back in Orgrimmar.

[Minikin]

Or, you know.. We could blame Jaina for playing stupid politics and not being around to help when major shit went down. She could have easily saved almost everyone.

i know this is not on topic but i found something pretty interesting about that recently. got the dreadlord skin for jaina in heroes of the storm, and when a match started had a varian on my team. normally there is dialogue and since she was now a dreadlord her voice overs had changed (e.g: normal jaina says "i have a bad feeling about this", dreadlord jaina says "oh i have a good feeling about this"). so when varian greets her, she says "you chose to side with the horde, the horde chose to watch you die"

i cant totally remember what varian says initially to her, quote has only happened once so far.