Possible Antorus nerfs?

[Deleted]

What are people's thoughts/predictions on Mythic Antorus nerfs?

I feel like the first nine bosses are in a decent position but I could see the last two being potentially nerfed since most guilds currently progressing them are having many hundreds of wipes and I know multiple guilds are disbanding due to burnout etc. Then again since it's the last tier a good amount of guilds will still get cutting edge because of how long it will be available.

Interested to hear if people think the raid will be nerfed, and how/when.

[Tolian]

Argus devs can DIAF. Close to 600 wipes now.

[Reloe]

what I'd like to see:
increase cast time of echoes of doom on varimathras just so you can more easily recover from an extra add.
have aggramar only spawn 3 high energy adds instead of 4, which will make it much easier for strats that involve always gripping the same positions instead of having to hunt for high energy ones during transition which is not a very consistent thing to do for most guilds. Maybe even nerf amount of total adds to 9 or 8 but don't think thats needed. Wake of flame damage could be reduced by a little bit to be less punishing.

Argus really only needs a small hp nerf, no changes to mechanics at all. 5% hp nerf would already mean you don't have to lust in p1 on progression. Giving you a better lust timing in p3 and allowing more deaths while still getting a kill.

Other than that I don't see anything else needing a nerf. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if they just up the itemlvl or give the raid a zone-wide buff that decreases hp/dmg dealt.

[KaPe]

They're certainly taking their sweet time with nerfs. I don't know if it's because they expected the trinket upgrade to trivialize the place, consider ATV to be the great equalizer despite its' abyssmal drop rate or maybe they believe that people still bother grinding Concordance ranks and they somehow matter.

Aggramar could use "simple" tweaks like fixed positions of 50 energy adds - this would make it much easier to control them, without directly nerfing the fight. Or, if they wanted to make the thing killable without multiple Blood DK, they'd outright remove several adds and nerf his hitpoints, so you can kill him before P3 overwhelms you. It's pretty poorly designed and unlike Mannoroth, pretty much impossible to do without mass grip and many knockbacks. It's closer to Lei Shen, except more obnoxious.

Argus... at very least they could fix Death Fog instantly killing you after combat res. Then nerf his hitpoints and make his ability timers more consistent, so no more "oh hey, I randomly decided to cast Gaze instead of Cone because you didn't make my arbitrary dps check, have a nice wipe". At very least this would make getting to P3 easier and make earlier phases less draining.

Or they could do things indirectly, like unlocking additional legendary slot. It's really weird that they didn't touch the place at all for several months. Sure, 9 bosses are fairly easy, but I don't think this ever happened before.

[Tech614]

There will have to be nerfs if they want Argus kill totals to approach Archimonde ones. Trinkets are no where near the self nerf that rings where. 5% hp nerf would make a world of difference for guilds progressing on him like the above said, no need to go overboard or anything it's just a crazy check for the non bleeding edge crowd at current.

[shaunika123]

There will have to be nerfs if they want Argus kill totals to approach Archimonde ones. Trinkets are no where near the self nerf that rings where.

dont forget +10 ilvl from valor points.

[tkioz]

Aggramar Mythic... I haven't got up to it myself, but I'm really not looking forward to it, assuming we get there at all with attendance issues we're having I'm likely to be the grip bitch since I'm the only 'non-vital' (not a tank, not a healer) team member with a DK alt geared enough to do it. I don't know what general opinion on it is, but it seems like a shitty designed fight to me.

[TOM_RUS]

Would love to see huge nerfs to mythic soon.

[Varolyn]

There will have to be nerfs if they want Argus kill totals to approach Archimonde ones. Trinkets are no where near the self nerf that rings where. 5% hp nerf would make a world of difference for guilds progressing on him like the above said, no need to go overboard or anything it's just a crazy check for the non bleeding edge crowd at current.

While I do think Argus will get nerfed, more guilds have killed Argus compared to Archimonde over the same time span. Same goes for Argus kills vs KJ kills in the same timespan.

[Ophenia]

Anything to reduce the heavy amount of "do like this or gtfo" would do the trick.

I really dislike the extremely tight numbers on Argus' fight requiring you to mass suicide before the mandatory kill on P3 then mass suicide on whatever Chains, plus mandatory BL + double pot to get rid of phase 1 nonsense, plus mandatory third tank just to soak orbs, plus healers suicide on bombs, all of these are due to the stupid numbers on this fight.

I have the feeling everything was like that in Antorus and that's depressing. I think a flat %HP nerf should do the trick (at least for Argus), but a few mechanics nerf could help reducing the "bring [insert any mandatory class/setup here] to simplify the fight by 400%" bullshit.

Overall, it seems that people who raided from Day 1 in Legion are mostly fed up right now, that may be the first time in my life my guild is no longer saying "let's kill it pre-nerf" but they'd prefer Argus to be nerfed by 80% so that they can finally get rid of Legion's raiding and take a break.

[Marrilaife]

dont forget +10 ilvl from valor points.

Yep, there was a "valor minipatch" both in MOP and in WOD, I'd really hope by April latest we get one too. Few months ago I was thinking March-April would be a good moment for it, back then I didn't have the bosses killed, now I do but boy every week's rekill is a pita, including rng screwing you over. I'd hope for lowering argus hp and either some valor ilvl bump on players to up their hp, or lower some damage from things like being chained. It's not fun when a dps can get bursted in 1-2 seconds from full to dead without their own mistakes (I'm not counting avoidable damage like getting fear / rage stacks or being hit by the scythe, I mean just the unavoidable damage). Even KJ as unforgiving as it was did not require us to use 0 cr, and if we used shaman totem back then we'd have another spare (since we were using cr on p2 suicide). Argus nope, tree is used for suicide strat, all crs are for tanks. You are allowed 0 cr for random deaths. And they happen. And then you wipe on 1% because some dps died too early. Not even mentioning that p1 + p2 + mandatory rp lasts combined so long and it's mostly "did anyone fell asleep" check at the moment. All action is in p3.

- - - Updated - - -

Overall, it seems that people who raided from Day 1 in Legion are mostly fed up right now, that may be the first time in my life my guild is no longer saying "let's kill it pre-nerf" but they'd prefer Argus to be nerfed by 80% so that they can finally get rid of Legion's raiding and take a break.

Yep, agreed, Legion decimated the mythic raiding scene on my server that used to be one of the biggest. Now it's less than mediocre. So many guilds called it quits. Now I've seen no new Argus or Aggramar kills for few weeks, guilds seem to be stuck, and I've already heard rumours about at least 2 guilds that are about to disband either soon, or just after they get the kill they will call it quits.

Aggramar is just repeat from Mannoroth all over again - get the mandatory dks or gtfo. There are few other mandatory things on this boss, like at least 10 ranged, specific amount of cc / knockbacks and so on. How many guilds can actually solve this puzzle with their limited roster? Argus, after immunity nerf, has less restrictions to your preferred setup, but still you want not too many melee, specific amount of execute classes, a monk tank (can be done without but is better with) etc. etc.

[Deleted]

Argus devs can DIAF. Close to 600 wipes now.

Lol that's not a dev problem anymore.

[Aggrophobic]

They are easy enough as it is.

[kamuimac]

Would love to see huge nerfs to mythic soon.

they could always choose easy way to nerf stuff by allowing like +2 extra legendaries on toons.

or they could go crazy way to just unlock and let you wear all legendaries at once for like 2 months before prepatch .

[Deleted]

First 9 bosses are basicly heroic bosses with some %hp added to them.
Would not cry if they "fixxed" (not necessarily Nerfed) Aggramar since you almost can't comeback from a misstake.
Argus on the other hand would make me really sad to see get nerfed, he is actually quite easy, p1 and p2 are free so all you have to practice is a good p3 and he dies. Having to get somewhat good at 1/3 of the phases seems like a low enough bar if you want to be a mythic raider. As already stated the kill % on him is already higher then Archimonde / KJ for example.

[Tradu]

Would be nice to see some nerfs just to make farm faster. Nerfing the amount of HP Argus heals up to in P3 and doing something about Aggramar adds would probably be the nicest ways of handling it.

[Siglius]

First 9 bosses are basicly heroic bosses with some %hp added to them.
Would not cry if they "fixxed" (not necessarily Nerfed) Aggramar since you almost can't comeback from a misstake.
Argus on the other hand would make me really sad to see get nerfed, he is actually quite easy, p1 and p2 are free so all you have to practice is a good p3 and he dies. Having to get somewhat good at 1/3 of the phases seems like a low enough bar if you want to be a mythic raider. As already stated the kill % on him is already higher then Archimonde / KJ for example.

Archimonde and KJ are both the hardest endbosses we've had in the last 3+ expansions, so that doesn't really say much.

OT: I doubt that they are gonna nerf Antorus before 8.0 at all.

[Waltzinblack]

Argus devs can DIAF. Close to 600 wipes now.

Maybe it's time to give up. The fight is hard but not that hard.

[Tradu]

Argus devs can DIAF. Close to 600 wipes now.

At 600 wipes at this point in the tier, that's a player problem, not a problem with the fight. Sure, the fight is awful, but it's not a 600+ wipe fight by any means(unless you decide to do stupid strats like Crisp did).

- - - Updated - - -

Overall, it seems that people who raided from Day 1 in Legion are mostly fed up right now, that may be the first time in my life my guild is no longer saying "let's kill it pre-nerf" but they'd prefer Argus to be nerfed by 80% so that they can finally get rid of Legion's raiding and take a break.

That's how I felt on Avatar, KJ and Argus. They weren't fun fights to do and I just wanted it over with.

[Deleted]

Pantheon trinkets were a gradual nerf, and a hp nerf wouldn't really help many guilds either, if you wipe on either Aggramar and Argus it's most likely because you aren't executing the fight properly. Taking off 5% hp isn't going to magically fix that problem (unless you've been wiping on low percentages and even that can be traced back to non optimal play of some of your raiders).