[PvP talents]Driven to Madness + Void Origins

[Nuba]

Alright so in Beta we can take both talents on war mode.
not only we become a void eruption machine gun, its basically as if we never ever leave void form while we have melee on us, or am I missing something?
I mean sure driven to madness doesn't proc while void form is active, but as soon as we leave void form we'll immediatly have 100 insanity to bring it back up, given we're being trained by melee.

it will be fun to go from a "class that always gets 100% trained by melee" to a "class that will do tons of damage if get trained"

But seriously, I believe that has the potential to be overkill, and I don't know if it'll go live like this

Also, that will likely be veeeeeery powerful while leveling

[Venara]

but as soon as we leave void form we'll immediatly have 100 insanity to bring it back up, given we're being trained by melee.

I think you're getting a bit too excited here tbh. Just for anyone who hasn't read the new talent:

While Voidform is not active, being attacked will grant you 9 Insanity over 3 sec.

It's more likely the buff will be refreshed with every melee hit rather than stack up and fill your insanity bar lightning fast.

At 9 insanity every 3 seconds you, assuming a vacuum where you're not casting other spells, that means it takes you at least 36 seconds to get to 100 insanity (or 21 seconds to get to 60+ if you specced LotV). I wouldn't really call that "immediately" It's certainly going to make fighting against melee more fair and less frustrating though. Great tool to have!

[Theed]

I think we need better defensive tools to be viable.

Also keep in mind that all other classes also have these shenanigans. These talents were in a single tier for a reason. Blizzard will have to make them tier based/exclusive again or nerf them.

[Deleted]

It should be noted that it doesn't care how many targets are attacking you, it is always 3 insanity every 1 second, the buff doesn't have stacks or anything it just refreshes every time you are attacked, it is honestly barely noticable imo.

[Cerbz]

Driven to Madness isn't very good on live and it's even worse in beta due to shorter Voidforms. Right now on beta, you're better off not even going into Voidform and using Edge of Insanity instead, which grants you 20% damage at 65+ insanity (10% more than Voidform; I assume they'll fix this). This will also make you more tanky because you're staying in Shadowform and keeping the 10% physical damage reduction you get from it, which you'd otherwise lose going into Voidform. San'layn and Fleeting Embrace brings Vamp Embrace's CD to only 37.5 seconds and you can use your last PvP slot for either Void Shift or Pure Shadow and you should be much more tanky than before, though I can't say I've tested the healing of Vamp Embrace to know if San'layn/Fleeting Embrace are really worth it.

I doubt those will be the optimal talents for 3's (right now it seems like Edge of Insanity/Psychic Link/Life Swap), but its similar to what a lot of Spriests did before Edge of Insanity got nerfed in Legion.

[Deleted]

I think you're getting a bit too excited here tbh. Just for anyone who hasn't read the new talent:

It's more likely the buff will be refreshed with every melee hit rather than stack up and fill your insanity bar lightning fast.

At 9 insanity every 3 seconds you, assuming a vacuum where you're not casting other spells, that means it takes you at least 36 seconds to get to 100 insanity (or 21 seconds to get to 60+ if you specced LotV). I wouldn't really call that "immediately" It's certainly going to make fighting against melee more fair and less frustrating though. Great tool to have!

Pretty much this^ but to add to it, the talent will never be taken over Pure Shadow or Void Shift in competitive pvp as currently on live you must have those talents if you want to hope to survive against melee, which is only going to get worse in Bfa with the loss of healing from dispersion, that and the instant cast VF provided by VO is also mandatory because of interupts.

The irony of the talent is that its good against other caster comps, especially comps with dots as it provides a decent consistent source of insanity and VF having a cast time is not as much of an issue due to being able to utilise LOS to negate ranged interrupts.

The pvp class system is a joke right now, old talents that have been balanced around an artifact are still there and actually less choice than before, regardless of being able to pick anything since as i said above some talents you cannot play without and should be baseline basically.

I mean just look at Edge of Insanity, it buffs your damage by 20% TWICE that of voidform but negates half of the pve tree since so many talents revolve around VF and insanity generation. It worked in Legion due to synergising with talents like San'layn, Reaper and Misery so you had a viable non voidform based dot spread spec, that was eventually nerfed because they didn't like people playing without void form.

So why is this talent even still in existence?

Makes you wonder when they release statements saying dont expect many sweeping changes to pvp talents, whether the devs that work on them have actually seen the Bfa PvE tree?

But ofc they have which makes it even worse imo....