Why are people bad at wow/raiding.

[Mirishka]

I'd say Vanilla to early Wrath, people were still helping players that were struggling to perform and they would listen. Late Wrath into Cata changed everything, everyone had an elitist attitude, no one wanted to help, even if you did try and help, people didn't want to listen.

No idea what happened.

I still help players with class stuff to this day, as do many of my guildies. But I only help when its asked of me.

One of the best friends I made in WoD was a hunter I met in LFR, her dps as BM spec was much lower than mine despite being pretty close in gear. So after the wing was finished... out of the blue she whispers 'can u help me i don't know why my dps is so low don't know what I'm doing wrong'. So I invited her to group, looked through the logs for a couple bosses and quickly established some stuff: things like, she wasn't KCing on cooldown (less than a 3rd of my total KC casts) and also that she didn't always use Bestial Wrath.

So I helped her set up a couple of useful macros, stressed that KC was her nuke to always be pressed, and just gave her a general sense of the spec's priorities. Once she got used to doing the stuff we discussed and got some better-itermized gear (hers was lacking in Mastery), her dps shot up considerably.

The 'help' that people reject are the "excuse me i noticed that ur dps is really bad" tells out of nowhere. Give advice when you're asked for advice.

[Garkanh]

Okay, this is just my two cents as a casual player that haven't raided serious since early MoP, and used to be a raid leader/main tank in a guild that only cared about normal (when heroic was thw highest tier)

A lot of casual players don't visit websites such as mmo-champion and icy veins. I'd wager it's a vast minority to be honest. And even if you tell them about those sites, most of those people doesn't want to visit those sites. It can be for a lot of deffirent reasons. Some feel like it's too much of a hassle, some don't like to be told how to play their spec, be it for being to stubborn, or because it removed the fun of finding your own playstyle. Some aren't very good at english, and don't want to spend hours trying to figure out what is written.

By now, only a few of my real life friends still play. One of them is a hard core raider, the two others are as casual as they come. Only got a single or two max level characters, and believe they are good raiders and have completed the content because they are done with raidfinder. They still don't have flying either.
One of them plays a prot paladin, and the only reason he clears heroic dungeons i'm certain is because everyone overgears the content. Because once when i played with him, i noticed how squishy he was. He spammed his shield of the righteous as if it was dps cooldown, and never used any other defensives. When i tried to teach him about how to play the spec, he didn't even know what shield of the righteous was, or what it did.

Anyways, these two examples are ofcourse not pugging hc raids, but i'm certain there is a lot of people, simmilar to them, who does. Hell, most doesn't even gem or enchant their gear.

[Ponky]

I mean you have world ranks, warcraftlogs rankings (for DDs at least) and if we're talking about guild raids you can also compare the number of deaths. So even in wow there are plenty of metrics, even if some of them take a bit of interpretation.

Correct but many regular heroic raiders don't log themselves and the logs you find of them are usually because someone else in their raid logged. And I've seen many people actually advocating against wcl because "it's 3rd party sites which shouldn't be required to play a game" or "omg dude i was not even trying to be good that run, don't judge me on some run where I was watching netflix"...........If you investigate their logs, wowprogress page, whatever else, you are an elitist prick who sorts people out because some random website told you they are bad.....it's kinda hard to reason with people nowadays and if you try to help them improve by pointing out their under performance, they just get butthurt and call you an elitist toxic tryhard.

[schwarzkopf]

I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

Very few people are bad at the game - matter of fact, most people in a co-ordinated team will do just fine.

What you are referring to is being bad at raiding, but bad at taking orders and coordination - in a random group of people.

If you are getting into a pug group - then you are already a high end player (I'm 964 iLvl dps and don't get in), so all that is left is just communications.

[Millyraynge]

First of all it's a question about how much the people care about the game. Secondly for what they care about the game. Thirdly did they have enough time to care to become good enough for the time they spent. Fourthly what ingame-IQ did they have.

A lot of people playing games to relax. To relax is just an another term to discribe to disable the brain.

[Sanguinerd]

At this point who really cares anymore? Raiding means nothing so why be "good" when you could have fun instead and not worry about x% bullcrap.

[JackWest]

My gf doesn't want to read up on things because she doesn't want other people telling her how to play, instead she plays the way she wants even if it's not optimal but she's also having more fun that way.

That way is fine as long as you are on your own. When you join a group, you should be at least carrying your own weight. Last person i met who wanted to play the game in his own way, was a mage doing like 10% of what his gear allowed him to do. I dont call that ‘carrying your own weight’ and people like that are only ‘obstacle’ for their group, and i’ve seen this behaviour in way above lfr, which is the highest place where it belongs

[Pickynerd]

I still help players with class stuff to this day, as do many of my guildies. But I only help when its asked of me.

One of the best friends I made in WoD was a hunter I met in LFR, her dps as BM spec was much lower than mine despite being pretty close in gear. So after the wing was finished... out of the blue she whispers 'can u help me i don't know why my dps is so low don't know what I'm doing wrong'. So I invited her to group, looked through the logs for a couple bosses and quickly established some stuff: things like, she wasn't KCing on cooldown (less than a 3rd of my total KC casts) and also that she didn't always use Bestial Wrath.

So I helped her set up a couple of useful macros, stressed that KC was her nuke to always be pressed, and just gave her a general sense of the spec's priorities. Once she got used to doing the stuff we discussed and got some better-itermized gear (hers was lacking in Mastery), her dps shot up considerably.

The 'help' that people reject are the "excuse me i noticed that ur dps is really bad" tells out of nowhere. Give advice when you're asked for advice.

If people are unaware that they are performing badly, they will learn to hate the game, they will be made fun off and be removed from groups constantly not knowing why.

Help is rare these days, I've helped people, and I've had people tell me to fuck off, but back in the day you could sit down with a random stranger and help them for an hour during a raid and everyone would wait, and that person would improve. GoGo's have killed all of that, I understand time is precious, but holy shit.

[Bathory]

well it not really hard to understand - gold has atm very real value of possiblitiy to spend it on game time - so ofc people rather save it then spend on flasks/pots etc.

so ofc they woudl rather spend couple of dozens of thousands of gold on gametime then on flasks

if blizzard didnt tie gold to $$$ people would be much more willing to spend it because then it wouldnt have real value only virtual one.

This issue has been happening way before the token was introduce and it will most likely continue to persist for the entirety of WoW's life...and it's still not a legitimate excuse. Gold is as easy to get as ever, but again, people don't want to put forth the effort. People want the rewards but none of the steps that's needed to achieve it.

Keep in mind I'm not referring to the entire player base, just those the OP highlighted in their post.

[Hottage]

Boiled down to one word:

Entitlement.

[Alphatorg]

If people are unaware that they are performing badly, they will learn to hate the game, they will be made fun off and be removed from groups constantly not knowing why.

Help is rare these days, I've helped people, and I've had people tell me to fuck off, but back in the day you could sit down with a random stranger and help them for an hour during a raid and everyone would wait, and that person would improve. GoGo's have killed all of that, I understand time is precious, but holy shit.

Why would I sit down and wait for an hour to help someone who is too stupid/delusional to google "wow guide".

[Pickynerd]

Ha. Mate don't pretend like you played vanilla. That or nostalgia goggles are blinding you. Because that is externally clear if you comment like that. There were elitist twats all the way from the first beta.

On my server the only elitist twats were on alliance <Overdose>, on the horde it was <Ascent> but they were very humble, all the other guilds were decent people with a random knobs here and there.

- - - Updated - - -

Why would I sit down and wait for an hour to help someone who is too stupid/delusional to google "wow guide".

Exactly.

/tenthings

[Jellybear14]

I haven't raided since Cataclysm, due to real life being more important. I'm quite happy doing world quests, the odd heroic dungeon and levelling other characters. People who choose to play this way do so because like me, time restrictions on when you can play stop you raiding and because you still enjoy what your doing (World Quests, Levelling and Dungeon running (Heroics only for me). If I get bored, I take a break from the game... The minute you wish to raid, you should be ensuring that your prepared for the raids. Flasks, Potions, Buff Food, Boss Tactics, Add-on's up to date and the ability to play your class (knowing your rotations, when to pop cd's and the ability to move out of crap on the floor).

To many lazy players think its ok to be carried through raids then get it into there head they are good players. Back in Cataclysm the Guild I was in was 2nd on server for progression and in the top 500 guilds in the world. We only acheived this because we worked together as a guild, everybody made sure they were prepared for each Boss. On alts we occasionally started our own raid and invited PUGs to which at least half the raid was made up of pugs. Pugs that didn't know the tactics well enough but came prepared with everything else we would help them to understand the fight and generally managed Normal clears and upto Firelord Ragnaros on heroic without to many issues when Firelands was still the highest tier. i've been in bad pug groups in cata myself and it gets annoying when the majority of the pugs that moan, get nasty are the ones that are never prepared for the fights and don't fully understand there class.

[Raelbo]

I know this has a high chance of degenerating into a troll thread, but it's a question I genuinely ask myself while pugging.

It's not that other people are objectively bad, you simply don't understand your own cognitive bias (the converse of the Dunning-Kruger effect)

"highly competent individuals may erroneously assume that tasks easy for them to perform are also easy for other people to perform"

[Deleted]

If you're to MAKE people play the game YOU want them to play... you could also pay their subs.

If you don't PAY their subs, then stfu.

Oh, it's a online game and people MUST know how to play with others? Tough shit, don't like it, don't play it.

Uhm, if people join a HC pug they want to do it themselves.
They choose wow to be their hobby, they choose to enter a heroic raid, they choose to play with other people, some complain about not getting curve, not killing stuff and even get angry about better players. I just started playing again with my shadow (942eq.) and I am beating people with 955/960 ilvl, these people dont ask for help, they insult me and the game and their bad luck.
This is the sad reality, so many players think they deserve stuff due to /played or ilvl but infact they cant even pull the dps to kill normal bosses.

[Deleted]

3 go to wago and DL the highest rated WA package for your class, maybe a raid WA package like those from Reloe (both optional)

This is complete gibberish to me. What are wago, DL, WA package and Reloe?

I suck at raiding because:

• I have memory problems (so I don't remember all the shit a boss does until I've done them many times).
• I don't use keybindings (because I can't remember them).
• My reaction speed is too slow to get out of stuff fast enough.
• I get overwhelmed by all the different things happening and can't focus on a rotation ánd move.
• I get incredibly bored of doing the same fight more then a few times and lose focus.

Mind you, I can still raid normal, but I just don't like it. I've never tried heroic, but I would probably manage, if the group is nice (as in, not yelling at me for making a mistake).

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

People don't do their own research, nor do they want to put in any extra effort. The amount of times I hear "I'm too lazy" in WoW is absurd. I understand that some people just want to come in and punch things, that's what LFR is about, but I'm still amazed how many people resist coming into a raid with mods/food/flasks etc prepared.

"It's just a game" isn't an excuse while also expecting first pull kills. Couple this with the people who refuse to change their play style and there ya go.

If I out geared the content or am the top before and shit dying, I don't flask.

[Deleted]

You think you need addons to not be bad at the game?

[Donald Hellscream]

Because they don't care to be better.

[Mintra]

When I see a really bad player, I'm no longer mad or want to mock him, because every time I think that it might be a kid. I see how my 12 year old son is playing video games (Diablo, Starcraft, some WoW on small levels), I saw my nephew play WoW - god, they are clueless, slow, have no idea of add-ons. They just don't know what it means to "play well", I remember the times 10 years ago, when I was as much clueless - those were the best times )))