Uh...we already earned this stuff?

[schwarzkopf]

The difference is that we had classes built with artifacts and legendaries in mind in Legion, in BfA those are going away

All THREE are going away - classes built with artefacts and legendaries in mind AND the artefacts and legendaries too.

Every expansion I've played - is always a complete gear reset to nothing at the start, and a build up again.

Nothing new here ... just be thankful the new system is better than the legion artefact + legendaries system.

[ramayana1423]

All THREE are going away - classes built with artefacts and legendaries in mind AND the artefacts and legendaries too.

Every expansion I've played - is always a complete gear reset to nothing at the start, and a build up again.

Nothing new here ... just be thankful the new system is better than the legion artefact + legendaries system.

Another person who thinks this thread is about losing gear. This is getting comical.

[Veyne]

Gear was only a small part of progression in Vanilla to BC. I know, I've been playing for 11 years. Classes received lots of new toys in BC, Wrath, Cata and MoP. Now? We've regressed over the last 4 years. 3 expansions of Pruning. If I ran my table top D&D game like this, no one would show up. WoW used to be a RPG MMO. Now? It feels like a Mobile game.

If you've been playing for 11 years you were not playing in vanilla or half of TBC.

Gear has always been and always will be the end-all be all of this game.

If you think WoW plays like a mobile game, you don't play mobile games.

[schwarzkopf]

Another person who thinks this thread is about losing gear.

Well - I was just replying to that person @Tradu ... he was the one talking about losing gear.

[Ooid]

Someone doesn’t understand how MMOs work. More at 11.

[Unholyground]

Correct, Servers cost alot to keep up, data keeping up to 50 charecters with hundreds of inventory slots (bank, guild bank, inventory) stables, quest log, quests completed, currencies, gear, skills. it does not take up alot for one player, but when you get millions, even those offline, it becomes alot of data stored. even for those who havent paid you for years.
That and they do produce free content for us every few months, and our money helps pay for that, and to keep the servers up, keeping up servers for alot of people, and holding the data of millions of players. it all adds up, and they are a company, a buisness they need to make money so holy fuck they charge you money each month to play ooooh boi.

But yes just another purning thread in disguise.. can we just ask the mods to make a "Purning megathread"

I will say though for example Guild Wars 2 does one thing right by not raising the level cap each expansion so gear is still relevent going forward, they just make the amazing gear way harder to get.

[l33t]

Gear was only a small part of progression in Vanilla to BC. I know, I've been playing for 11 years. Classes received lots of new toys in BC, Wrath, Cata and MoP. Now? We've regressed over the last 4 years. 3 expansions of Pruning. If I ran my table top D&D game like this, no one would show up. WoW used to be a RPG MMO. Now? It feels like a Mobile game.

Exactly. They pruned the classes to the point they aren't classes we started playing in vanilla.

Be a man. Just admit Ion purposedly killed the game for people like us, cancel your sub and move on. Like I did in legion. No king stays forever, sadly.

[Alex1312]

Exactly. They pruned the classes to the point they aren't classes we started playing in vanilla.

Be a man. Just admit Ion purposedly killed the game for people like us, cancel your sub and move on. Like I did in legion. No king stays forever, sadly.

You are perfectly right! But, why does Ion do that? What's the point of destroing the fun for us? What's the point of killing the best mmo of all times? What does he win from this nonsense?? Oh and why everyone is letting him to do whatever he wants? He should be fired bcs it's an incompetant.

[SirBeef]

I'm going to be perfectly straight here...it is not at all ok to put stuff that we already ground out/earned on new stuff and act like I should be glad you're allowing me to regrind/work for it again and in many cases a nerfed version.

If you're not sure what I'm talking about; I'm talking about Azerite Armor. In some cases (I have a feeling this is just the tip of the Iceberg) you will need to grind out traits on your Armor that you already earned, in Legion. Those Legendary items that will become useless? Those Artifact traits that you spammed Maw for? Ya, we get the treat of having them all taken away, rewrapped and regifted in the form of another grind.

What we earned on our Artifacts should've all gone Baseline. Instead, in many cases they removed pretty much everything from us (everything we spent Legion earning) only to turn around and give to us AGAIN as a new carrot...like we are that retarded and can't see it's the same carrot?

$50 to relearn everything they just removed from our characters? Let me guess what will happen in the next expansion when they remove Azurite Armor and the Necklace? Ya, fool me once...At the end of the day our characters haven't progressed since the beginning of WoD. Now, we progress our characters through rental gear only to have all our progression stripped away in the end. This is an awful system.

You say you have played for 11 years yet you seem shocked by this. This is not new. Epic raid loot, tier set bonuses, and awesome trinkets being replaced by greens and blues in the next expansion has been happening since TBC. I also guess you forgot the part where we lose our artifact weapons. Which were the source for these abilities. We did not learn them. That would be like complaining about losing an "use" ability on a trinket when we replace it.

- - - Updated - - -

If you've been playing for 11 years you were not playing in vanilla or half of TBC.

Gear has always been and always will be the end-all be all of this game.

If you think WoW plays like a mobile game, you don't play mobile games.

Yeah he missed out on all the res gear farming, and all the PvPers bitching about being destroyed by PvErs in raid gear. But gear was only a small part of progression amirite?

- - - Updated - - -

The thing that most people seem to be missing is that in other expansions while there was a power reset to some extent, we also got new things while things from the previous expansion became baseline.
In BfA, they're taking things that have been effectively baseline for 2 years(artifact traits and legendaries) and doing one of 4 things: removing them entirely, making them talents(replacing old talents, because they're not adding a new talent row), reusing them as azerite traits(Prydaz and Executioner's Precision for Arms being examples of this) or making them baseline. And not enough of them are becoming baseline, while too many(read: more than 0) are being reused as talents or azerite traits.
Especially in the case of legendaries it's pretty ridiculous, because legendaries are effectively a pool of ~12 talents which you can pick any 2 of. In BfA they're pushing those choices into talent trees with the same number of options as in Legion, effectively making us lose 2 "talent points".

Yeah but like the OP you are forgetting they were all attached to the gear itself. They were not learned talents or abilities. This is not a prune like WoD. We are losing the progenitor of those abilities if you will.

[Phlegethon]

I'm going to be perfectly straight here...it is not at all ok to put stuff that we already ground out/earned on new stuff and act like I should be glad you're allowing me to regrind/work for it again and in many cases a nerfed version.

If you're not sure what I'm talking about; I'm talking about Azerite Armor. In some cases (I have a feeling this is just the tip of the Iceberg) you will need to grind out traits on your Armor that you already earned, in Legion. Those Legendary items that will become useless? Those Artifact traits that you spammed Maw for? Ya, we get the treat of having them all taken away, rewrapped and regifted in the form of another grind.

What we earned on our Artifacts should've all gone Baseline. Instead, in many cases they removed pretty much everything from us (everything we spent Legion earning) only to turn around and give to us AGAIN as a new carrot...like we are that retarded and can't see it's the same carrot?

$50 to relearn everything they just removed from our characters? Let me guess what will happen in the next expansion when they remove Azurite Armor and the Necklace? Ya, fool me once...At the end of the day our characters haven't progressed since the beginning of WoD. Now, we progress our characters through rental gear only to have all our progression stripped away in the end. This is an awful system.

So this is the first time you'll go from one expansion to another right? Never started lvling and grinding gear ever before?
Derp.

[Pickynerd]

My honest opinion right now about BfA, is that Blizzard is trying to remake a game for people who don't play anymore, or never have. I am not trying to speak for everyone but WoW is like 2 steps away from adding loot creates I swear "We removed tons of base-line skills you have used for a decade, but added ways for you to get them, or you can buy Battle-Chests™"

I think that AR's shouldn't just be a new character, it should be a prestige of your main character, as I see now, they add nothing but a few weeks of play. Have 2 warriors? Have a Void Elf? No? Well here's your chance to have a new race and a 3rd warrior!!

Lately I have been feeling that age creep, where I think I feel like my parents when Super Mario Bros came out, where they didn't get it, didn't like it, and died over and over because it was "stupid" that is how WoW is making me feel with BfA.

[Lei]

Just one question.
WHY do we need azerite armor and the traits. To me, the answer is clear. More playtime for no real content, because "WE LOVE CHEAP THRILLS!" . It's just a window that has traits and you play endlessly (hopefully there will be a cap) to unlock said traits. Paragon reps, paragon everything, world quests..................................

We didn't have them pre-wod, and the game was just fine, honestly even better.

[Baroclinic]

Ironically... if you've geared decently through the expansions, the gear can actually last you through quite a few levels. Hell, I remember final tier trinkets that freaking still rocked 10 levels later (Blizz has a tendency to nerf stuff like this nowadays and kill the old tier so you cant have fun with their bonuses anymore though).

LOL, they've recycled reputation content for ages. How many times have we dealt with the bronze flight? Or my favorite was Shadow-Pan part 2 reputation in the same expansion because the pandas moved through a portal. This is just the first time they've taken your hard earned skills away.

It was just shoddy work building characters around a silly weapon that is going to be wrecked, and only wonder how this affects going through Legion content at a later date with a broken weapon, and wondered ages how this would even be able to go forward without killing your silly weapon.

[Highwhale]

Ironically... if you've geared decently through the expansions, the gear can actually last you through quite a few levels. Hell, I remember final tier trinkets that freaking still rocked 10 levels later (Blizz has a tendency to nerf stuff like this nowadays and kill the old tier so you cant have fun with their bonuses anymore though).

LOL, they've recycled reputation content for ages. How many times have we dealt with the bronze flight? Or my favorite was Shadow-Pan part 2 reputation in the same expansion because the pandas moved through a portal. This is just the first time they've taken your hard earned skills away.

It was just shoddy work building characters around a silly weapon that is going to be wrecked, and only wonder how this affects going through Legion content at a later date with a broken weapon, and wondered ages how this would even be able to go forward without killing your silly weapon.

Yea. Good example Thunderfury - sword was so good it was still used by tanks in TBC raids until SSC.

[wholol]

I wrote a post about diminishing returns on products/services years ago, basically the short version is:

WoW is a service and much like any other service, repeated uses provide diminishing returns on service satisfaction, blizzard knows this.
The game is catered towards people who have not yet reached the DR threshold, it's been that way since the inception of the game, people were still too satisfied to notice.

The same reason why most vanilla players quit ages ago, these days cata players are quitting/quit due to the same effect, blizzard's model is a continuously evolving retention system, always trying to bring the players who quit back into the game as their DR threshold resets over time.

But I guess people would rather discuss transmogs, mounts and other silly things, carry on!

[shadycharacter1]

Don't forget which company it is, Activision does the same shit with CoD, like announcing leaning as a brand new feature.

[Deleted]

Can't you understand that endlessly adding skills and traits is not sustainable?

This, so much. I wish so much of the community didn't default to the victim and the negative and instead used a bit of critical thinking first.

[Highwhale]

This, so much. I wish so much of the community didn't default to the victim and the negative and instead used a bit of critical thinking first.

So lets remove some skills and abilities players already have and lock them behind talents/legendaries/gear traits? Flawless Logic.

[slime]

thanks to all the folks coming here and saying "Hey welcome to mmos... they all do that". I never realized this before.

Anyhow, mmos can do the grind right or they can do it like wow has been over the last few xpacs.

[huth]

Don't forget which company it is, Activision does the same shit with CoD, like announcing leaning as a brand new feature.

Activision is a different company, though.