Should teen girls be required to notify their parents if they get an abortion?

[Shadowferal]

I certainly would encourage masturbation as a better alternative.

[petej0]

That is not how it works.

If you give a good education to your daughter, there is no need for this at all. If there is, because accidents and hot heads can happen among properly educated teems as well... No, of course she should not have to do so.

I think by now it is out of the question that aborting is not killing, you can not kill what does not exist, leave your beliefs aside, this is a serious matter. A teen who is not willing to and ready to be a mother should not become so.

Are you ok with an abortion 1 day from expected due date?

[Elegiac]

Are you ok with an abortion 1 day from expected due date?

Yes, because what you're describing is called 'birth'.

[Shadowferal]

Absolutely not. Parent or not, you don't get to rob your pregnant child of their agency, of what is and is not allowed to be in their body. This is not a debate. Thinking you get a say over your pregnant child's abortion is child abuse.

Where the fuck do you live besides your imagination that this is releveant?

[Endus]

Except a Doctor wont remove an appendix without parental consent. Heck, I am not sure a 10 year old could get a tooth pulled without consent. I could be wrong.

That entirely depends on what, exactly, is going on.

If the girl's in distress and her parents aren't around, the doctor isn't going to just let her die as her appendix bursts, for instance.

If the girl is being abused by her family, that's grounds for taking steps. If not, notifying the family and bringing them into this would be the ethical thing to do. I was mostly skipping over this particular issue, because it's contextual and can be complicated, just to nail the grossly dishonest comparison that was being made earlier.

There'll be cases where a doctor may deem that she needs to have the abortion, and she wants it, and her parents refuse, and that's deemed child abuse and the doctor performs the procedure anyway, for instance.

[Tico]

I think, until the kid reaches the individual status (18 or 21 years, I don't know how is it there), the parents need to be informed.

[petej0]

Yes, because what you're describing is called 'birth'.

I dont give a damn what you want to call it. I jam just asking a question, so there is no line. Basically full term "baby" can be aborted last minute if the mother chooses not to want it?

[Endus]

Why would there need to be an attorney appointed on her behalf? She either has bodily autonomy or she doesnt? She either has consent or she doesnt. does it change if she was 11, 12, 13, 14? What age as a minor is it ok for her to give consent and what age is it too "young"? This is why I would argue for parental consent, however if you are going to make that case for bodily autonomy (which I agree with for the record) then we have to be prepared for the extreme cases.

These are willfully dumb questions. All you're doing here is calling into question the concept of minors not having capacity to consent. And that we already have mountains of law which covers these answers in pretty think levels of detail.

[Hilhen7]

I just thought of another issue. What if the parent is actually the father of the unborn child, but the teenager is not willing to disclose the information.

[durenas]

So, I voted yes, but upon further reflection, I have to change it to no, why? Because forcing the child to either inform their parents(which they may or may not want to do) or go to jail or be otherwise punished for not telling them, is the wrong way to go. If they don't want to tell their parents, presumably there's a reason for that. The law shouldn't force that, no matter what the parent might wish.

[Endus]

I dont give a damn what you want to call it. I jam just asking a question, so there is no line. Basically full term "baby" can be aborted last minute if the mother chooses not to want it?

At least in Canada, there are no regulations on abortion, other than the basic medical ethics and so forth that apply to all medical care. The decision as to whether to abort is entirely up to the woman and her doctor. The State doesn't get involved, at all.

If her doctor deemed a term-minus-a-day abortion was medically necessary, and the woman consented, there'd be nothing preventing that, here.

[Endus]

I just thought of another issue. What if the parent is actually the father of the unborn child, but the teenager is not willing to disclose the information.

This is the kind of stuff I was getting at in my post when I said that if there's abuse, it gets complicated.

[petej0]

I was mostly skipping over this particular issue, because it's contextual and can be complicated, just to nail the grossly dishonest comparison that was being made earlier.

Exactly, its contextual and can be complicated. Not every situation fits into a nice little box. Which is why I asked about the case of a 10 year old (if that is was the grossly dishonest comparison you are referring to). In most every non-emergency instance, a parent or guardian is required to give consent. If you are going to claim bodily autonomy overrides legal guardian consent for abortions, then a doctor shouldnt need to get consent from a legal guardian to perform an abortion on a 10 year old.

[Elegiac]

I dont give a damn what you want to call it. I jam just asking a question, so there is no line. Basically full term "baby" can be aborted last minute if the mother chooses not to want it?

And your question is flawed from its basic premise since no, abortion of a <insert whatever term you want to describe it> when it's viable outside the womb isn't actually a thing.

[Hilhen7]

I dont give a damn what you want to call it. I jam just asking a question, so there is no line. Basically full term "baby" can be aborted last minute if the mother chooses not to want it?

For medical reasons? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...walsh/1644839/

[Shadowferal]

Reality. A reality where a person's agency is sacred, and a pregnant person is the only person who gets a say on whether or not they will carry a child to term.

Oh...you mean where ten year olds get raped? And they drive themselves to the doctor?

[Antiganon]

So? There is nothing stopping them from passing a legalization bill TODAY making it legal Jan 1st of the new year. All current court cases get dropped, all current minor possession convictions get thrown out and released over the next few months.

I have so much to say about this being inconsistent but it goes into off topic issues. Way more than currently.

To be clear, I am talking about getting the baby boomers to buy in to the coming societal and legislative changes one step at a time, else they will vote out the liberals who legalized weed in the first place, vote in conservatives that want to repeal legalization, and a ton of time and money has now been wasted with no real change that benefits anyone. It would obviously be easier if you could just show people data and have them understand without FUD.

Why would there need to be an attorney appointed on her behalf? She either has bodily autonomy or she doesnt? She either has consent or she doesnt. does it change if she was 11, 12, 13, 14? What age as a minor is it ok for her to give consent and what age is it too "young"? This is why I would argue for parental consent, however if you are going to make that case for bodily autonomy (which I agree with for the record) then we have to be prepared for the extreme cases.

I'm going to make some assumptions here:

1) We allow abortions without parental consent or notification for girls that are above the age of consent in whatever jurisdiction.
2) For girls below the age of consent, we involve social services and the parents, at the same time, prior to any procedure being performed.
3) In cases with underage girls where the abortion question is contested, it goes to court, and an attorney is appointed to argue on behalf of the best interests of the child, similar to divorce cases.

The idea being that if a girl is old enough to consent to sex, she is old enough to consent to an abortion. If she is too young to consent to sex, she is too young to consent to an abortion, but because this is a serious life altering situation, the decision should not be solely in the hands of the parents, and an advocate for the child's best interests is needed.

[petej0]

These are willfully dumb questions. All you're doing here is calling into question the concept of minors not having capacity to consent. And that we already have mountains of law which covers these answers in pretty think levels of detail.

I am just pointing out the inconsistencies.

[Hilhen7]

Oh...you mean where ten year olds get raped? And they drive themselves to the doctor?

I'm sure there could be a case of a 10 year old being raped and impregnated by their parent. Perhaps a teacher or someone they trust would take them.

[petej0]

For medical reasons? https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...walsh/1644839/

ffs, Non-medical!

Basically full term "baby" can be aborted last minute if the mother chooses not to want it?