Are you actually happy with the way class design is heading?

[Donald Hellscream]

The specs I am interested in playing seems alright to me thus far.

[Deleted]

Except you can test at 110 with Nighthold/ToS gear levels instead of levelling past 110, and you can pretty easily compare NH/ToS gear to Antorus. Also there was a raid test the other week, with gear scaled up to presumably normal raid levels(the test was for heroic)

But the 110 experience is designed with artifacts in mind. If those tests were done with Artifacts equipped, then they are not representative of how it will be at 120. If those tests were done without Artifacts equipped, then it should be obvious why it is sluggish. In either case, the Azerite armor from BfA dungeons and raids are left out and invalidates the comparison.

Furthermore, the clearly stated purpose of the raid test was stability testing: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Monks-DLC-627

[Tradu]

But the 110 experience is designed with artifacts in mind. If those tests were done with Artifacts equipped, then they are not representative of how it will be at 120. If those tests were done without Artifacts equipped, then it should be obvious why it is sluggish. In either case, the Azerite armor from BfA dungeons and raids are left out and invalidates the comparison.

Furthermore, the clearly stated purpose of the raid test was stability testing: https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...-Monks-DLC-627

Just because they used it for stability testing doesn't mean that's the only thing you're allowed to test during it. And the 110 experience on alpha is not built around artifacts(you don't have artifacts at all), and based on the azerite we've seen so far, it has basically no impact on gameplay. Sure, it might be different at max level, but based on what we've seen so far, I don't expect it will be much different(this goes for both azerite and class/spec design)

[Deleted]

Just because they used it for stability testing doesn't mean that's the only thing you're allowed to test during it. And the 110 experience on alpha is not built around artifacts(you don't have artifacts at all), and based on the azerite we've seen so far, it has basically no impact on gameplay. Sure, it might be different at max level, but based on what we've seen so far, I don't expect it will be much different(this goes for both azerite and class/spec design)

The intended purpose of the raid test was stability, and therefore you can easily conjecture that they did not put in the necessary effort yet to make classes and/or specs relevant and playable at a raid setting.

Exactly, therefore the 110 comparison are completely irrelevant. Blizzard have already claimed that the yet to be seen dungeon and raid Azerite armors will be more substantial. If the dungeon or raid armors are raid tier sets, then the Azerite armor we have seen so far is the armor set we could acquire through the Order Halls if Blizzard are true to their claim. So expecting them to not be much different from the very first piece of Azerite armor you get during questing does not seem logically sound to me.

[Tradu]

The intended purpose of the raid test was stability, and therefore you can easily conjecture that they did not put in the necessary effort yet to make classes and/or specs relevant and playable at a raid setting.

Exactly, therefore the 110 comparison are completely irrelevant. Blizzard have already claimed that the yet to be seen dungeon and raid Azerite armors will be more substantial. If the dungeon or raid armors are raid tier sets, then the Azerite armor we have seen so far is the armor set we could acquire through the Order Halls if Blizzard are true to their claim. So expecting them to not be much different from the very first piece of Azerite armor you get during questing does not seem logically sound to me.

Blizzard can claim whatever they want, all we know for sure is what's available in the alpha currently, which is disappointing. They claim so many things that turn out not to be true or end up changing massively before we get to see them, so there's no reason to believe it until it's available for testing.
And if they've not put the necessary effort into making classes/specs relevant and playable in a raid setting 4 months before the expansion, we should be extremely worried.

[Deleted]

Class design and class balance... unplayable support classes like mages.. etc... totally useless... Boring Massive PvP battles aren't funny rly... where is WotLK or TBC class balance? 2v2 was fun, duels and 1v1 was fun... Battlegrounds... But now..? PvP is dead since WoD, Blizzard kill them all. And people applaud them... Its rly SAD.

[Deleted]

In the shithole where wizard cleave and SL&SL Warlock is.

Everything was better, more funny, or balanced than casual garbage named WoD or Legion. BfA will not be better seems.

[Ghazan Julio]

It's going to be very boring and repetitive, more-so than ever now. They removed too many things.

[Sencha]

They removed so many things that the game will soon be playable with a controller. They want those juicy console players subs even if it means dumbing down class gameplay more and more.

[Nadiru]

I'm in the alpha and I've tested about half the specs. Game's fine.

[alt-ithist]

Not really...Conceptionally since Vanilla our character have slowly gotten stronger and unlocked new class abilities that parallels our character's growth, from simple adventurers to full blown heroes. It's a story in the making...In BfA for the first time, you're getting weaker...Warlocks are losing the ability to have advanced demons, Hunters are losing Hati, etc.

It just feels wrong.

Hati can go die in a slow roasting fire. The concept was cool, implementation however was just a bugged mess.

[thatmikeguy]

Arms and Fury are broken around the GCD, on top of rage and melee. They can't be serious about what is on alpha atm...
> How can one spec have 2 GCD's before they start doing good dps and another 6+ GCD's ? How is that going to work when balancing PVP/PVE/M+ ?

Simple, you pre cast Avatar, hit charge, hit bloodbath as your opening attack then spam recklessness till it triggers Thus far you've burned 5seconds of Avatar (25%) 3.0 seconds of Bloodbath (35%) and 1.5seconds of Recklessness, leaving you with 6.5seconds of Recklessness, 7 seconds of blood bath (this is intentional) and 15seconds of Avatar (which no longer buffs anything but direct warrior damage)

During combat, you'll trigger avatar on a rampage that falls within a window about 5 - 10 seconds prior to Recklessness coming off of Cooldown, Blood Bath must land in the 2 GCDs prior to Recklessness, and you can't clip Rampage anymore with Recklessness so you'll basically have to hope you can dump all of your rage prior to hitting Recklessness so you don't waste a huge chunk of built up rage so basically, Fury is now the most complex DPS class in the game to play optimally.

[hulkgor]

This only shows thay you havent played beta.

So? Hence me being curious about upcoming changes, since you know, i haven't experienced them yet.

You make it seem like playing beta or having access is something super relevant or noteworthy.

[Oneirophobia]

Yeah. Who wants to watch people fighting for 20 minutes until dampening sets in or the healer runs out of mana?

Who wants to watch PvP that basically boils down to doing your PvE rotation on a human controlled avatar? Utility has been gutted.

"Who wants to watch [World of Warcraft] PvP" is the real question. League of Legends, Fortnight, PUBG and Overwatch are soaking up views like crazy, I find it difficult to believe any amount of changes short of a WoW 2 would draw enough hype to get people to tune in.

They really, really should stick to designing classes based on feeling good/fun to play, and not feeling good/fun to watch. It's an enormous risk.

[Mafic]

There is a huge outcry because classes currently feel sluggish on alpha, usually blaming the loss of artifacts and/or legendaries.

However, going from end-of-tier haste levels (30% for many classes right now) to almost nothing in BfA leveling and early raiding is obviously going to feel sluggish and bad, but this has been the case for every expansion cycle. Furthermore, we have not seen any of the Azerite armors from the dungeons and raids, which Blizzard claims to be a lot more substantial than the early leveling Azerite armors we have seen so far.

Their focus seems to make the alpha feature complete and them push out the beta and begin tuning. I'm holding my breathe until then.

The GCD change along with you gain nothing going to 120 is obviously making it sluggish. Classes are reverting to a Legion prepatch state for BFA prepatch. Frankly, I think that is highly unprofessional if it reaches that point.

[Master Guns]

I’m disappointed, albeit not surprised, that Blizzard doesn’t realize we don’t like to power down and lose things as a new expansion comes out - one would think that’s an elementary concept, but here we are.

Losing artifact perks, abilities, and spells while also gaining no new talents lines AND getting further pruned? It literally makes no sense.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I'm cautiously optimistic in terms of my own class and 2 specs.

I honestly never enjoyed this game through class gameplay alone, so can't put myself in the same group as the people that will quit if just 1 thing feels off about their spec of choice. I also don't ride the meme-train where everyone just screams "PRUNING" and thinks it gives weight to their argument.

[Master Guns]

I'm cautiously optimistic in terms of my own class and 2 specs.

I honestly never enjoyed this game through class gameplay alone, so can't put myself in the same group as the people that will quit if just 1 thing feels off about their spec of choice. I also don't ride the meme-train where everyone just screams "PRUNING" and thinks it gives weight to their argument.

No one is saying that, though. We’re not saying we will quit if just one thing is off. We are saying the classes WE enjoy are completely gutted and feel inferior in almost every regard compared to live. If that doesn’t resonate with you, well, dunno.

[Thenatural]

Every thread has one dude that just will not let anyone type anything positive.

Go through pages 1-5 of this one and ctrl+f "scare"

[Thenatural]

When you can't refute my argument

What are you trying to accomplish? If you aren't looking forward to the expansion, just don't play the game. Why you feel the need to project your displeasure, I will never know.