Inconsistent Buffs in BfA

[Kralljin]

With the new build last week, Blizzard snuck in some new Raidbuffs, for Monk and Demonhunters to be precise.

Monks now apply a 5% physical damage debuff on the target, Demon hunters apply a 5% magical damage debuff on the target.

Monk: http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=8647/mystic-touch (In case you're wondering, Blizzard re used the Spell ID of Expose Armor here)
DH: http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=1490/chaos-brand (Re used Spell ID of Curse of Elements here)

Nothing big right? They wanted to re introduce these buffs, or not?

To make it quick, this news article is no longer accurate : http://www.wowhead.com/news=275398/c...le-for-azeroth

The only buffs currently present on Alpha are:

-Warrior's Battle shout (But 10% AP instead of 5%)
-Mage's Arcane Intellect (Also 10% instead of 5%)
-Priest's Fortitude (Again, 10%)

Any secondary stat buff has been removed.

Along with the two debuffs mentioned above, these represent the only new "unique buffs", anything else remains pretty much untouched to live.
(Ignoring some situational effects like Tremor but those aren't exactly common)
Now, as before, Blizzard also introduced scrolls as substitute for these buffs:

http://bfa.wowhead.com/search?q=war-scroll

Bit weaker than the class effect but still do the job.

Now my question is: Why do certain buffs receive a substitute and others don't?

Obviously a question that is not very impactful for raiding, as bringing at least one of these 5 classes is most certainly possible, but for the remaining content, especially M+, those scrolls kinda undermine the value that a class represents.

Take Mage for example, Mages bring Arcane Intellect and a Bloodlust effect, however, you could also just take a class like Warlock, that has a Combat Ressurection and an AoE Stun, you then simply use Bloodlust Drums, the Intellect Scroll and the Mage's value has pretty much been replaced.

Not saying Mages are too weak, (Seriously, i believe they're Blizzard favorite child next to Rogue) but you get the idea.

We have substitutes for these three Buffs, have a substitute for Bloodlust but none for the debuffs mentioned above or Combat Ressurection, despite the fact that those buffs are all rather powerful.

To be honest, i find it rather weird that these scrolls are a thing in an expansion where they want to move away from "Bring the player, not the class".

It's also very strange to me that these debuffs added to Demon Hunters & Monk are currently unique, whereas Bloodlust & Combat ressurection are being shared across 3 respective classes.

In my opinion, Blizzard must decide whether they want to go back to the Wotlk / Cata / MoP system (with scrolls / drums for every "support tool" (including Combat Ressurection)) and share support tools across multiple classes or go back to Vanilla / BC system, if you want Bloodlust / Combat Rez, get a Shaman / Druid.

Right now, Blizzard kinda rides between these two systems with no clear line, some class buffs are unique, some classes have substitute scrolls, others share spells with other classes.


Edit: Battle Rez now also has a (engineering only) craftable substitute:

http://bfa.wowhead.com/item=158379/u...l-time-shifter

[Deleted]

It is strange that they are adding these scrolls but no equivalent for combat resurrection, almost like they want resto druids and blood death knights to be the top choices for m+. Especially since BM hunters are losing out on theirs. Healthstone is another utility that Warlocks dominate, since it is percentage based (and even buffed to 40 % in BfA) health potions don't even come near it in terms of power.

If they are going this route with the scrolls, then they really should add percentage health potions that are slightly weaker than health stones, and combat resurrection scrolls with a slightly longer cooldown than the class ability. Limiting CR to three classes is really just too restrictive given how immensely powerful it is.

[Irefusetodie]

Their whole design philosophy for BFA is very strange. Between bringing back raid utility that they swore up and down made you bring X class/spec over Y class/spec to further homogenizing tanks.

[Vpuh]

bring X class/spec/

Its bring X class/spec/race now

[Gaidax]

Bit weaker than the class effect but still do the job.

So going by that, not having a class that gives debuff is like having a bit weaker scroll too... With scroll you miss 3% stats and with no debuff 5% damage debuff - it's virtually same loss.

Another important thing is that 5% debuff is provided by at least 2 classes, while the full power buff only by one.

Finally - stat buffs benefit group/raid much more than than damage debuffs, so not only it's 10% vs 5%, but also clear benefit to healers vs no benefit at all, for example.

Bottom line:

1. Buff is considerably more powerful, both by value and benefit.
2. Has no alternative class that provides it.
3. Scrolls compensate portion of buff, so you lose 3% on stats still, which is pretty much all around equal to 5% debuff loss.

As for Brez - you have engineering item that does it - does not always work? Whelp, it's worse option just like scrolls is.

[Kralljin]

So going by that, not having a class that gives debuff is like having a bit weaker scroll too... With scroll you miss 3% and with no debuff 5%, big whoop.

5% is kinda a big deal.

Imagine having a full caster line up in a M+ with DH tank vs. any other tank, you pretty much deals 5% more damage than with any other tank.

Another important is that 5% debuff is provided by at least 2 classes, while the full power buff only by one.

Physical debuff is brought by monks, magical by demon hunters.

Two buffs, one on each class, so for full 5% extra damage regardless of damage type, you need one dh and one Monk.

As for Brez - you have engineering item that does it - does not always work?

Jumper cables aren't useable during combat as far as i know.

[Gaidax]

Physical debuff is brought by monks, magical by demon hunters.

Two buffs, one on each class, so for full 5% extra damage regardless of damage type, you need one dh and one Monk.

Rogues provide physical debuff and Warlocks magic one, so it's not only DH/Monk.

And again - the buff is considerably more powerful and scroll just brings the loss to 3% where it is pretty much equal to not having a debuff for reasons I explained.

- - - Updated - - -

As for jumper cables, honestly don't know, I do not use these as I am OP warlock with combat rez.

But really combat rez is a commodity that is available to wide amount of classes and specs and it is also something that gives those classes utility bump they otherwise lack. In any case there is no shortage of options for brez and you may as well bring one.

[Zelk]

oh look another old lock spell going to demon hunters

[Khain]

Rogues provide physical debuff and Warlocks magic one, so it's not only DH/Monk.

Rogues and Warlocks do not provide these buffs anymore.

[Jaigar]

I like this change to class buffs much better than the secondary stat ones they had before. Its far more friendly to 5-man content. Also can you run more than 1 scroll type?

[Tabrotar]

Rogues and Warlocks do not provide these buffs anymore.

Wait what?

But that was one of the big things they advertised for BfA for Locks.

[Mafic]

Wait what?

But that was one of the big things they advertised for BfA for Locks.

It has been pruned.

Blizz doesn't know what they are doing with class design anymore for BFA.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Why would they prune CoE, that is one of the few things that you could actually call iconicalong with priests and mages.. but then warlocks already have a shit ton of uility with portals, health stones,soul stones, CC, interrupt, etc.

[Akka]

It has been pruned.

Blizz doesn't know what they are doing with class design anymore for BFA.

That's not really new, it started in WoD.

[Deleted]

Dont worry, Warlocks will probably bring Blood pact, 10% hp

[Kralljin]

I like this change to class buffs much better than the secondary stat ones they had before. Its far more friendly to 5-man content. Also can you run more than 1 scroll type?

That depends on your point of view.

Within a 5man Setting, Monk and DH Tanks have a massive advantage over other tanks, within a full caster line up a DH Tank represents flat 5% more damage, same goes for Monk tanks in a Melee / Hunter line up (unless a MW / WW Monk is present).

Ignoring the fact that a Monk healer now also provides some Dps gain if s/he decides to melee a few mobs.

So yeah, Healer / Tank Balance really depends on whether a DH / Monk is present.

Why would they prune CoE, that is one of the few things that you could actually call iconicalong with priests and mages.. but then warlocks already have a shit ton of uility with portals, health stones,soul stones, CC, interrupt, etc.

Quite honestly, i have no idea.

The recent build even added a Dispel to DK's called Reap Magic http://bfa.wowhead.com/spell=264349/reap-magic , has a 10 second CD but also gives you Runic Power, so unless you need to spam dispel magic / purge, DK's have the most efficient dispel in the game.

Why DK's receive a Dispel is beyond me, the previous version of said spell was a copycat of Spellsteal.

Rogues provide physical debuff and Warlocks magic one, so it's not only DH/Monk.

As other people have already said, that is wrong.

And again - the buff is considerably more powerful and scroll just brings the loss to 3% where it is pretty much equal to not having a debuff for reasons I explained.

That's not how it works, 3% AP isn't neccessarily 3% Damage, 5% damage is 5% damage unless your damage is split between magic and physical.

But really combat rez is a commodity that is available to wide amount of classes and specs and it is also something that gives those classes utility bump they otherwise lack. In any case there is no shortage of options for brez and you may as well bring one.

That literally misses the point of the topic.

[Cosmic Janitor]

The DK dispell is only offensively, which taking a look at legion has maybe 1 or 2 applications in raiding so far..
DKs got that, because they were one ment as anti-magic knights and the spellsteal/copy-cat shit didn't work even back in cata when they tried it for the first time.

[Kralljin]

The DK dispell is only offensively, which taking a look at legion has maybe 1 or 2 applications in raiding so far..

So like Shaman's Purge? But still, DK purge is best because it generates resources whereas Purge / Dispel Magic is a dead GCD.

DKs got that, because they were one ment as anti-magic knights and the spellsteal/copy-cat shit didn't work even back in cata when they tried it for the first time.

Yeah, but offensive dispel were never part of their toolkit, death knights are / were good at negating incoming magic damage, but not strictly good at countering magic itself.

Aside from that, between Rogues (who are still the greatest Pain for any caster) & Demon Hunters, does this game really need -yet- another "anti caster" Melee?

[WrongCracker]

oh look another old lock spell going to demon hunters

Demo hunters!! +100

[bloodstripes]

Are these buffs castable, or do they just automatically extend to group/raid members? I ask selfishly because I used to love to spam Arcane Intellect in LFR groups....I'm a simple man.