"Trials deserve loot too"

[RobertoCarlos]

3 posts summarizing the only facts in this whole spin. Manipulated people don't see the manipulation though. They swallow the buzzwords whole - bait, hook, rod and even the angler.

Sad thing is they wont even pay attention to our posts, it will be like the hosts in westworld when they see the real world "Doesnt look like anything to me" in fact this whole post is probably just a blank white space for them so they can keep ranting about that time a guild leader stole loot with master loot

[nocturnus]

Ugh, just when the conversation seemed to change for the better, people feel compelled to share their half-assed, off-topic assumptions.

[OreoLover]

+RNG +Blizz$

About Master Loot Carries... Personal Loot significantly slows those down, yes? ...keeping subs/services/engagement ongoing? ...reducing $ made by top raiders?

[rda]

About Master Loot Carries... Personal Loot significantly slows those down, yes? ...keeping subs/services/engagement ongoing? ...reducing $ made by top raiders?

It only slows them down initially, after one-two months of farm, a raider who had the item drop in PL would likely have a better item already equipped and so the trade would be allowed. But yeah, it's a bit of a hit.

The problem with selling carries for Blizzard is that allowing carries keep a couple of sellers playing but makes a big number of buyers likely to quit sooner because they "achieved everything". Should they ever decide that the issue is big enough, they might take measures to try and stop that. And yes, the issue is getting bigger every year. Previously it was mostly restricted to PVP and to the very high top in PVE, but after the token it spread everywhere and covers like half of PVE now. And yeah, it's not just raiders either, it's people selling carries for mythic+ as well, for example. All these "top" idiots will wake up one day to see the rules changed because they overplayed their hand. Out of being myopic greedy idiots.

[justonetime]

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.

[nocturnus]

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.

What about people who make new accounts to pollute threads with unrelated, useless Benjamin Franklin quotes?

[Deleted]

Those who would trade in their freedom for their protection deserve neither.

...............and then you remember it's a fucking videogame and your kind of post sound ridicoulus.

[kamuimac]

Sad thing is they wont even pay attention to our posts, it will be like the hosts in westworld when they see the real world "Doesnt look like anything to me" in fact this whole post is probably just a blank white space for them so they can keep ranting about that time a guild leader stole loot with master loot

but they do pay attention to your posts - they simply disagree with them on most basic levels - just because you repeat the same arguments 100 times it wont change anyone mind

for years they were meeting only with abuse and exploitation in guilds and they made their own opinions on topic - now they are happy because neither you nor anyone can abuse them anymore.

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It only slows them down initially, after one-two months of farm, a raider who had the item drop in PL would likely have a better item already equipped and so the trade would be allowed. But yeah, it's a bit of a hit.

The problem with selling carries for Blizzard is that allowing carries keep a couple of sellers playing but makes a big number of buyers likely to quit sooner because they "achieved everything". Should they ever decide that the issue is big enough, they might take measures to try and stop that. And yes, the issue is getting bigger every year. Previously it was mostly restricted to PVP and to the very high top in PVE, but after the token it spread everywhere and covers like half of PVE now. And yeah, it's not just raiders either, it's people selling carries for mythic+ as well, for example. All these "top" idiots will wake up one day to see the rules changed because they overplayed their hand. Out of being myopic greedy idiots.

they wont because blizzard is happily making ton of profit from selling tokens to people who buy carries - why do you think they didnt nerf the fuck out of mythic + even though its compltion ratio are abyssmal low ? because they know for how many people buying boost is obvious and only solution

[Mardux]

1) I think most people here have agreed that PL-only is perfectly fine in heroic and below.
2) I've already conceded that ML is a flawed system that needs improvement. I just don't believe PL-only is a good solution.

It doesn't matter how many times you say this. They still won't be able to understand it because if you aren't pro PL-only, you're pro ML.

[Deleted]

Activision Blizzard made more money last year off services than selling games. If you've noticed, its why Blizzard is making all these monetization changes. Allied Races and increased leveling time are no accident. They're all about selling more character services.

Think about it. Half the price of an expansion for a race change. What better way to boost revenue than allied races? All the allied races we have on live are very low effort, mostly reskins with terrible racials. Yet how many people bought the preorder and paid for a race change?

Zandalari Trolls not being available on release is such a sneaky cashgrab move. Because they are not available on launch, there is no way to level one and be ready for when the first raid tier releases. If you are a raider and want to play Zandalari or Kul Tiran humans, you're going to have to pay. And 4 of the most popular races, Blood Elf, Human, Troll, and Orc are having their racials nerfed/GCD'd. New Mag'Har Orc racial isn't on GCD. Is it just a coincidence?

That's why I'm not surprised at the forced personal loot change. I don't think its for some community good. Blizzard has already lied to us about their reasoning behind GCD changes. They've been debunked by every major sector of community. Why should I trust their supposed reasoning on forced personal loot?

I think Blizzard is trying to shift the game away from its more hardcore raider/PvPer base and appeal to the larger casual audience. Most players in WoW are casual. They log in, maybe do LFR, do their mount runs, transmog runs, or work on achievements. That's the game for them. They have their small social guilds and just enjoy what they do. Only a minority of the player base even runs heroic raids, and mythic is even tinier.

What are the consequences of upsetting these mythic raiders by forcing personal loot? Sure they'll whine and complain, but they're not going to quit. They'll still give Blizzard their $15 a month cause they're hooked.

Spot on imo. Add on top that it's much easier to develop easy repeatable content for farmers who will still appreciate it or at least won't be vocal about it's quality. I only wonder if Blizz is actively shaping their desired playerbase portfolio already or just reacting and testing for now.

[SirCowdog]

^^ You guys above are overthinking it.

You claim we're overthinking it, but go on to explain in detail how it's all the big bad raiders fault because of selling carries?

wut?

Come on rda, you're better than this.

If Blizzard somehow disabled carries or made them very, very difficult to do, the current top would just quit the game

They would still sell carries for the achievement alone, since that's what many MANY guilds and PUG runs ask for along with iLVL when creating groups.

You're sitting here claiming that Mythic raiders are screwing up the game, while simultaneously pointing out that the source of the problem is just as much the Blizzard token. You claim that mythic raiders are here in this thread talking trash because they want to ruin the game, when all they're doing is trying to defend their right to play the game just as much as anyone else.

The ignorance and selfishness displayed in this thread is 100x worse by people who are unwilling to see other styles of play or reason than their own. It's not so much that people are defending Master Loot, but using it as a contrast to point out how flawed forcing PL on the entire game is. All you're doing is the same thing historical xenophobes and bigots have always done: Blaming the minority instead of actually addressing the problem.

You want this situation to get better? How about instead of creating new reasons to hate a group of players that plays differently than you, you start coming up with solutions or suggestions how to fix or improve the situation.

[Cyranis]

You claim that mythic raiders are here in this thread talking trash because they want to ruin the game, when all they're doing is trying to defend their right to play the game just as much as anyone else.

You pay your sub, you can play as much as anyone else. What you can't do is play how you want to .. if what you want to do, costs a far larger group of players something.

You want this situation to get better? How about instead of creating new reasons to hate a group of players that plays differently than you, you start coming up with solutions or suggestions how to fix or improve the situation.

They already did fix the situation for the majority of the playerbase with PL for everyone.

ML has benefits to you and yours and you don't care about anyone else that happens to play the same game. You are selfish.
You spent a bunch of words telling us all about how great you are, within your own social circle, and yet can't see how self centered your position is.

[kamuimac]

3 posts summarizing the only facts in this whole spin. Manipulated people don't see the manipulation though. They swallow the buzzwords whole - bait, hook, rod and even the angler.

why do you assume they mind long but easy grinds ?

most people play mmorpgs exackly for this - slowly grinding gear to eventually overpower everything.

for years people were more then ok with farming badges/jp/vp - PL is just another iteration of this.

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You want this situation to get better? How about instead of creating new reasons to hate a group of players that plays differently than you, you start coming up with solutions or suggestions how to fix or improve the situation.

but they are making the situation better

you are just angry because its not going in direction you think it will be better

this is pure karma kiting all of you back for abusing and making fun out of weak players for year - this is karma revenge for all stupid "lets remove lfr threads" , its biting back for all sort of "lets exclude part of payerbase from X content" threads.

it sucks being on this end of the stick for once eh ?

the more toxic people will quit over this change the better - same with changes to gcd and many others coming in incoming years

[SirCowdog]

You pay your sub, you can play as much as anyone else. What you can't do is play how you want to .. if what you want to do, costs a far larger group of players something.




They already did fix the situation for the majority of the playerbase with PL for everyone.

ML has benefits to you and yours and you don't care about anyone else that happens to play the same game. You are selfish.
You spent a bunch of words telling us all about how great you are, within your own social circle, and yet can't see how self centered your position is.

[rebecca191]

We won't be quitting, but we will be sitting trials on farm bosses in BFA. Right now, core members who don't need loot from a boss are encouraged to sit so trials can get experience, less in demand items, etc. In BFA, core raiders who already got what they wanted from a boss won't be sitting for a trial, they will be in for the farm kill so if they get the item again, it can be traded to a less lucky core raiders. Our trials will get much less loot with the PL change.

[rda]

You claim we're overthinking it, but go on to explain in detail how it's all the big bad raiders fault because of selling carries?

wut?

These are two different things.

People up the page have been overthinking why Blizzard remove ML. The reason they remove ML is simple: because ML is abusive almost everywhere except in a few places, and so removing it is a net gain, it makes things better for many at the cost of making them worse for few.

The remark regarding "top" raiders in threads on this subject and threads on other subjects continuously being idiotically myopic, stupid and whatnot, because they themselves create half of their problems was a separate thing. Paid carries are a perfect example of exactly the problem that the "top" (and even not so top) raiders themselves create every tier. When the problem gets big enough, Blizzard will solve it and then these idiots will cry how unfair that was. Even though everyone with half a brain can see that this is a problem and something that can stop basically tomorrow.

[SirCowdog]

this is pure karma kiting all of you back for abusing and making fun out of weak players for year - this is karma revenge for all stupid "lets remove lfr threads" , its biting back for all sort of "lets exclude part of payerbase from X content" threads.

it sucks being on this end of the stick for once eh ?

[rda]

You're sitting here claiming that Mythic raiders are screwing up the game, while simultaneously pointing out that the source of the problem is just as much the Blizzard token. You claim that mythic raiders are here in this thread talking trash because they want to ruin the game, when all they're doing is trying to defend their right to play the game just as much as anyone else.

Yeah, Blizzard are to blame because of the token, absolutely. But only an idiot would not see that going "woohoo! all my runs are now for gold! woohoo!" will have repercussions. Sure, Blizzard were stupid. But so are raiders, or at least the 99% of them for whom restrictions on carries will come as some big surprise - and yeah, that would be 99% of raiders. They will write stupid threads regarding Blizzard "wanting to kill raiders" and long posts of BS trying to say that them selling carries are doing everyone in this game a favor. While in reality they are just myopic dummies who are abusing the hole that is getting bigger and bigger and after it gets too big, it will just be closed.

- - - Updated - - -

You want this situation to get better? How about instead of creating new reasons to hate a group of players that plays differently than you, you start coming up with solutions or suggestions how to fix or improve the situation.

The solution for those who want ML: ask to reallow ML in mythic raids.

The solution for those who want to keep selling paid carries: reduce your business 10x instead of expanding it. You are already overdoing it. Yeah, that's unrealistic, I know. Then at least understand that your carries are a temporary thing.

[Divinar]

Our trials will get much less loot with the PL change.

You mean your trials will be getting less Artifact Power. They already wouldn't have gotten loot under the ML system because you'd give it to the core raiders. Now they won't get a spot at all, thus won't be able to use a bonus token and get some AP.

You'll change your tune when your guild has it's 400th wipe on BossX and too many grandmas have died that day so you can't field a full raid. Suddenly bringing trials to farm bosses won't seem so bad.

[SirCowdog]

Yeah, Blizzard are to blame because of the token, absolutely. But only an idiot would not see that going "woohoo! all my runs are now for gold! woohoo!" will have repercussions. Sure, Blizzard were stupid. But so are raiders, or at least the 99% of them for whom restrictions on carries will come as some big surprise - and yeah, that would be 99% of raiders. They will write stupid threads regarding Blizzard "wanting to kill raiders" and long posts of BS trying to say that them selling carries are doing everyone in this game a favor. While in reality they are just myopic dummies who are abusing the hole that is getting bigger and bigger and after it gets too big, it will just be closed.

Link me these posts.

Like I said, carries would still be sold even if all it was for is the achievement. Because then the person being carried could use that on their application for PUGs or guilds.

And do you know what else would be bad for the game? Droves of top-end guilds quitting after downing the content the first time.

The solution for those who want ML: ask to reallow ML in mythic raids.

The solution for those who want to keep selling paid carries: reduce your business 10x instead of expanding it. You are already overdoing it. Yeah, that's unrealistic, I know. Then at least understand that your carries are a temporary thing.

Your "solution" is to just continue allowing what's going on right now. MYTHIC raiders don't hang out in heroic for very long, not even to sell carries.

So letting them continue to run like normal in Mythic doesn't change anything.

How about this: PL is the baseline. But trading of gear can be done between guild members only. Trading can only be done after a person has been in the guild for 2 weeks minimum, or reached exalted rep with the guild.

"Trials" get to keep their drops because they haven't been in the guild long enough. Carries(paid or otherwise) get to keep whatever drops they get, but can't be traded anything else. Established guild groups made up of existing, trusted members can trade whatever the hell they want.