"Trials deserve loot too"

[Deleted]

Finally....

I absolutely agree that guilds should have a tool to reward lets say "loyalty". Or any extra efforts guild leaders think is valuable. Or (since I like freedom of choice) just let GM be greedy asshole and take everything for himself.

It can be "prestige"-like system. Or something like "guilds accumulate guild accomplishment points and then turn them into...some sort of cosmetic rewards". Or whatever else. (we kind of have that "mount from last boss", but that clearly not enough and overall terrible system.)

But - that reward shouldn't be loot. And shouldn't come in expense of trials.

And that is exactly what you should do - instead of "now I can't take loot away from trials" make a point "Blizzard we don't have a tool to reward extra guild activities". Separate those issues - and you will have big support from the community.



Well...noone is posting in their advertisements "we reward based on longevity over performance". Look at the advertisement of that "Mr 3/11M officer" - he didn't mention "your experience with us is your reward".

And again - taking loot away from "new hires" to reward "good old boyz" is first of all bad game design. Bliz created this problem. With ML->PL change Bliz is fixing one part of this problem. Now they should fix another part - luck of rewards to incentivize guild related social/managing activities is bad for a game.

Like talking to a tree.
If you apply to a guild you should know before what you get into - finding out how they handle loot takes you 10minutes max.
If you still join eventho you dont like it - dont blame their system,blame yourself.
Theres nothing wrong with ml guilds rewarding people for time in the guild and other things if everyone is fine with that - if you dont like that (like me for example then dont join.) theres enough guilds handling loot in good fashions like rewarding performance regardless of rank in the guild.

Getting rid of ml is not gonna be a solution for people like this and other people dont have a problem or are already happily using pl.
So all this is doing is removing a fun game within a game like lappe called it - its fun to min max your loot in the guild to progress fast.

Its nice to pass up loot for someone else getting a bigger upgrade - its also nice getting loot handed over for performing good or getting a bigger upgrade.

Ml is a very nice interaction between people if you do it nicely.

[Banard]

TL;DR: Personal Loot is so fucking restrictive and not organized that it simply has no place in guilds who really want to progress. All this change does is make guilds even more wary of giving new players a chance in their team, especially if they're much lower progressed, have taken breaks, or have changed guilds repeatedly, and this is already a huge concern on live. Making it even worse is just causing a much bigger problem, especially how small the playerbase is compared to expansions ago.

178 pages discussing this.....

14 years of loot drama.

This needs to be in place ASAP. Get over it.


Secretly every GM, raid leader and officer is joyfully screaming like a 5 year old on xmas morning about this change. The ones "voicing" their concerns are the one putting on the "brave face" for their guild.

NO more loot add ons!
No more loot system you need a PHD to understand!
NO more DKP!
No more LOOT DRAMA!

bring it on!

The only people really upset about this, is the ones in place that got a system (guild) in place so they get what they want when they want.

PL 4 Life. Remove all other options.


Then let us all QQ to the RNG gods.

[sorakibr]

178 pages discussing this.....

14 years of loot drama.

This needs to be in place ASAP. Get over it.


Secretly every GM, raid leader and officer is joyfully screaming like a 5 year old on xmas morning about this change. The ones "voicing" their concerns are the one putting on the "brave face" for their guild.

NO more loot add ons!
No more loot system you need a PHD to understand!
NO more DKP!
No more LOOT DRAMA!

bring it on!

The only people really upset about this, is the ones in place that got a system (guild) in place so they get what they want when they want.

PL 4 Life. Remove all other options.


Then let us all QQ to the RNG gods.

You know nothing.

Also this has more posts than anything I've seen recently...and a silly post about 50% completion gets posted to the front page. Just cause it's in the main wow forums doesn't mean its worth it.

[Locked down]

People who live in different areas of the game are clashing. I went lone wolf for a bit even killing mythic bosses in pugs and a group with master looter has full control. The same goes for weird heroic guilds that use master looter.

Yes,people can leave and go someplace without it but I've noticed a lot of wow players are... I hate to use cowardly but they dispise direct confrontation. When spoken to they tend to bend the knee even if it is something they don't agree with themselves.

[nocturnus]

Wonder how much shorter this would be if not for all the "Straw Man"/"fallacy"/personal attacks/"go read the previous 170 pages or stfu" filled posts that don't bring anything new to the discussion.

Well, if participants would cease using common fallacies like Straw Man, Red Herring, Circular Arguments, Non Sequitur or even Reductio ad Hitlerum (who was the dunce using this fallacy again? ) I wouldn't have to correct them repeatedly.

Really, it's not that hard.

[Vanos27]

You know those "trials" that you speak of could have been doing these raids every week just like your guildies but could have a hard time getting into guilds. So they're putting in even more effort that your guildies by having to look for groups every week and dealing with pugs and what not. So they definitely, 100% deserve loot just as much as your anyone else in that raid. If they're constantly dying in the beginning of every fight then obviously kick them and then them getting look won't be an issue.

[Locked down]

Which is strange, considering we have total anonymity. I've never understood the behavior in an environment where there almost 0% accountability to your actual person.

I can't say I understand it any better. I remember once offering a free 15 carry for the skin to a player struggling with no strings attached nor demand of payment and they turned it down over worry of being indebted to me somehow.

I just don't get it... I almost feel like it's a generational thing. I can't recall the mindset of caging yourself being a popular one in early wow.

Still the players rejoicing the removal of ml are seeing some great evil destroyed even if I'm left shrugging myself. Without tier the only issue I can see with personal loot is classes that have weapons where they need two of the same for bis. It's going to be annoying but without the massive boost of tier sets it shouldn't be a big issue.

[Deleted]

You know those "trials" that you speak of could have been doing these raids every week just like your guildies but could have a hard time getting into guilds. So they're putting in even more effort that your guildies by having to look for groups every week and dealing with pugs and what not. So they definitely, 100% deserve loot just as much as your anyone else in that raid. If they're constantly dying in the beginning of every fight then obviously kick them and then them getting look won't be an issue.

being a trial in a guild != pugging every week.

company offering you a job IF you do fine for a period of time = job"slot" is your reward after being tested.
company asking you for help as they are missing people for the job and you are qualified to help them out = you get treated like anyone else (better said should.)

[nocturnus]

company offering you a job IF you do fine for a period of time = job"slot" is your reward after being tested

So wait, let me get this straight; you actually think that getting a job is the reward? So what's your salary, a bonus? Charity?

Let me know where you're from, so I can avoid that place like the plague.

[Deleted]

So wait, let me get this straight; you actually think that getting a job is the reward? So what's your salary, a bonus? Charity?

Let me know where you're from, so I can avoid that place like the plague.

Getting a job after an internship/getting tested is a reward yes - that the wage coming along with said job is a reward too is rather easy to understand.

Theres many companys testing you before giving you the actual job - some of them without payment too.
Getting it means getting a stable income (your reward,remember?) so it shouldnt be too hard for you to understand the concept of "making it" being a reward in itself already.

[Deleted]

The next time I am invited to some 2-3days assessment center or asked to develop and propose a dedicated strategy/product/solution as part of my hiring process I will ask to be paid for the time spent on these. MMOC experts said I should, must be legit.

[BlueRemedy]

Boohoo, awkward game systems for a 14 year old nearly dead venue are changing.

As for people whining that you don't get paid for a job application; this isn't a job and you are dumb as fuck. Enjoy the change.

[Deleted]

My 2 cents: Our guild operates on a loot council, we provide loot to whoever it will benefit the raid team the most. So for example, right now (or before, since this expansion is kind of done now) we'd give 4 set to one DPS over 3 set to another DPS of the same class/tier token, assuming they perform equally) as this would hopefully result in stronger raid DPS. DPS geared first, then tanks, then healers (unless tank/healer specific items drop). Is usually how it goes, towards progression. We progress Mythic, we gear the raid team in a way that helps the progression.

It obviously depends on what stage we're at, what item drops and who needs it more, but trials can and do get gear in our raids if there isn't a raider that needs it more. Better it goes to a trial than gets wasted - a trial is still a member of our team, who may become permanent. A trial is an investment and obviously we wouldn't neglect them needlessly, as long as they understand that raiders will take priority over them while they remain at trial status.

Without master loot it's gonna be a bit chaotic, we can no longer decide who gets what item based on need or performance, or how it benefits progress. I can only assume Mythic content will be at a difficulty level to accommodate this change instead of leaving us to the mercy of RNG. As in, we fight bosses through skill and handling of mechanics, rather than numbers given from items. If this is the case, I'll be fine with the change but if not, it's going to be frustrating and downright demoralising for Mythic and Heroic guilds too.

[Divinexve]

how the fuck is this thread still real

[Cyranis]

Method Jdotb Q&A #12 - Master Loot, Push Weeks, Necrotic Affix

http://www.wowhead.com/news=284573/m...necrotic-affix

How do you feel about Master Loot being gone in BFA?
Words can hardly express how excited I was when I read that master loot would be disappearing in BFA. It has long been tradition in progression raiding guilds for gear to be given first to DPS, then to tanks, and finally to healers. The logic being that DPS checks are common while healing checks are rare, and if you really need more healing you can just bring an extra healer. Whether this line of thinking is correct or not, most guilds that are clearing content at a reasonable speed defer to this loot system in varying degrees.

Because of the ubiquity of this approach to loot distribution, raiding as a healer usually meant being last in line for anything cool that dropped that wasn’t healer-exclusive (i.e., trinkets). You could probably expect to be one of the last people in your raid to get new tier or weapons. And because most top guilds shared this mentality, there wasn’t really an alternative. If you wanted to raid at a high level, you just accepted this fate.

Being a longtime healer, this status quo has chafed me over the years, and anyone that’s raided with me knows how I feel about being treated like a second class citizen when loot is concerned. But especially in Legion, where M+ has become my primary goal, gear is more important now than ever because it’s effectively the bottleneck on pushing higher and higher keys. Raid content is static, but M+ scales infinitely, so the need for gear in M+ is much more pronounced. If you’re wearing 940 ilvl, you will never compete with the groups rocking 970.

One of my favorite aspects of M+ has been that it’s permanently set to personal loot, and I can’t wait for BFA to take this approach with all content.

This was posted today, i'm sure you'll find it interesting.

[Deleted]

If Method guy doesn't shut up the 678th US Rank "But what with myah progression?" tryhards in this thread, nothing will.

[zaino]

If Method guy doesn't shut up the 678th US Rank "But what with myah progression?" tryhards in this thread, nothing will.

One mopey zoo lion doesn’t reflect the pride

[Deleted]

If Method guy doesn't shut up the 678th US Rank "But what with myah progression?" tryhards in this thread, nothing will.

you get that method as a raidteam and jb have 0 to do with each other yes?

if method likes the change its for the reason of reducing preparations/splits just like exorsus and that is very understandable but does not mean they dislike ml as a system itself.

but posting jb as a healer favouring pl over ml for the reason of only really wanting to push m+ and wanting more gear for it is not really a good argument against ml.

im actually a pretty good example as i prefer pl over ml for the average use BUT i absolutly love progressing and doing whatever is best for it and for this ml is just the better choice as it enables you with having certain classes geared or even reroll if needed. - sadly not possible in early progression with pl so i dislike the removal of ml and not pl itself

- - - Updated - - -

This was posted today, i'm sure you'll find it interesting.

would be a lot more interesting to see the opinion of someone who kinda wants to keep ml for progress reasons but at the same time likes the change as it likely will reduce splitraids instead of having someone being only pro pl for rather egoistic reasons

[Darleth]

None of that is longevity. It's preparation. You're using the wrong word - it's not possible to show longevity for someone who's new to the raid. By definition, longevity implies a duration across (long) stretches of time.

By all means, a trial should do everything you said... it's just that none of that speaks to whether someone has stuck around for a long time.

I still count that as "longevity" though, since you want to stay there and get to your raider rank. I agree though that "longevity" probably is the wrong word for that.

Trials aren't interns. You're not running a charity by recruiting ill prepared, inexperienced individuals to "teach them how to play". Mythic guilds, especially bleeding-edge ones, have very high standards and mostly recruit players with similar progress and excelling logs.

Of course, if we talk about bleeding-edge guilds they dont really recruit players that aren't near their current progress. Taking "worse guilds" into consideration, that maybe just started mythic and trying to get some new, fresh blood into their guild, that is a different thing imo, as they might take people with 0 Mythic experience, in that case the whole "intern" stuff is somewhat valid imo, but lets move on from this whole nonsense discussion.

Ontopic: ML should just stay because of the CHOICE to use it. Taking it away reduces choices. Also Personal Loot is too much luck based, which makes it just as bad as getting no loot via Master Loot rules.

[Deleted]

If Method guy doesn't shut up the 678th US Rank "But what with myah progression?" tryhards in this thread, nothing will.

1 player who isn't even the raid leader/guild master speaks for the entire guild? Or even better the entirety of high end mythic guilds?