"Trials deserve loot too"

[Polarthief]

When a formed raid group is 10/11M, and we bring in 2-5/10M players who we're giving a shot to join us and skip progression (that we've spent months on mind you), and a main raider, who we KNOW isn't going to bail, needs a huge upgrade, of course we're going to give it to him. We have no idea about this trial or if they'll even work out. The fact that at least one dev on the WoW team thinks that Trials deserve loot just as much as the people who helped a guild progress through the raid is laughable and shows that they really don't do organized raiding to any extent. They're promoting the ideal that guild community means fuckall and you can just piss off whoever you want since they can no longer affect your loot. If Personal is forced in Normal-Mythic, that would easily promote that toxic, LFR, mentality with actual raid difficulties.

Like I really can't fathom that they think Trials should be just as eligible as main raiders for loot. It's baffling that they're upset with "being at the mercy of others" over "being at the mercy of raw RNG fucking you for weeks on end". If we could at the very least have a blacklist for gear from bosses, this might be acceptable. If we could at least trade shit we don't give a fuck about, even if it's a slight upgrade in iLvl, this might be acceptable.

TL;DR: Personal Loot is so fucking restrictive and not organized that it simply has no place in guilds who really want to progress. All this change does is make guilds even more wary of giving new players a chance in their team, especially if they're much lower progressed, have taken breaks, or have changed guilds repeatedly, and this is already a huge concern on live. Making it even worse is just causing a much bigger problem, especially how small the playerbase is compared to expansions ago.

[EbaumsTipster]

If you can't deal with a trial getting loot while you don't, you don't deserve to run a guild.

Deal with it.

[Rendark]

Removing master loot would be so dumb. I hope they don't do it.

[Radaney]

Why would someone leave if you're successfully giving them loot through boss kills?

If the trial is consistently under performing, you remove them from the guild.

This isn't an issue.

Just narcissistic paranoia at this point. Really just displaying community toxicity.

The fact is Ninja looting isn't a thing anymore, someone can't take gear from the guild out of spite. Because it's not possible.

[Polarthief]

If you can't deal with a trial getting loot while you don't, you don't deserve to run a guild.

Deal with it.

Or it helps the guild significantly more when someone who has been with us for years, who does good DPS, gets loot over the guy who might quit tomorrow. Now if no one on the main core needs it, then yeah, we're perfectly fine giving it to them over disenchanting it.

Your mentality practically screams at me that you don't do organized raiding. Anyone who has wouldn't think such things.

[Ponji]

The game is already toxic. These forums serve as a nice vehicle to drive that toxicity when whiny apes like yourself make a thread complaining about another change the developers have already discussed at length. If you don't like the changes, stop throwing an internetantrum and move on. There's plenty of other games out there to play, why get grumpy about one that's been out for almost 15 years?

You guys amaze me with how petulant you can be sometimes. Cheers.

Infracted [MoanaLisa]

[Rendark]

It's already done.

And OT: Get better trials basically

If that is true then BfA really does look worse and worse every day.

[EbaumsTipster]

Or it helps the guild significantly more when someone who has been with us for years, who does good DPS, gets loot over the guy who might quit tomorrow. Now if no one on the main core needs it, then yeah, we're perfectly fine giving it to them over disenchanting it.

Your mentality practically screams at me that you don't do organized raiding. Anyone who has wouldn't think such things.

There's a reason that organized raiding is a minority and solo players are the majority. People aren't trustworthy.

[Athorha]

Don't bring in trials then if you're going to feel entitled to loot over them? If your guild isn't capable of maintaining a decently static roster during progression... that speaks on the quality of guild you're in, and quite frankly if you're still progressing months and months after a raid comes out I don't see why you're acting so triggered over the possibility of missing out on loot... The bosses aren't disappearing

[Polarthief]

Why would someone leave if you're successfully giving them loot through boss kills?

If the trial is consistently under performing, you remove them from the guild.

This isn't an issue.

No shit, but this is after they've been with us for a night or two and gotten all this loot that someone else would have instead. Someone else that we wouldn't be removing the next day.

Just narcissistic paranoia at this point.

Not even referring to my loot specifically, more loot that's being taken away from the guild and being given to someone who doesn't deserve it, someone who didn't put in their time and dies to fire and other dumb shit.

It's already done.

And OT: Get better trials basically

Oh yes, because it's so easy to pinpoint who is good. We've had many players with seemingly good logs and seemingly good mechanics (low deaths, damage taken, etc) and yet they end up some of the worst shitters ever.

There's a reason that organized raiding is a minority and solo players are the majority. People aren't trustworthy.

Even still, all this does is remove choices from organized raiding. It makes virtually no sense to remove it.

Don't bring in trials then if you're going to feel entitled to loot over them? If your guild isn't capable of maintaining a decently static roster during progression... that speaks on the quality of guild you're in, and quite frankly if you're still progressing months and months after a raid comes out I don't see why you're acting so triggered over the possibility of missing out on loot... The bosses aren't disappearing

Yet another individual who thinks I'm selfish and only talking about myself. Talking about the GUILD getting loot over someone who might bounce.

Also, people quit, the game is a lot different from what it used to be, and a lot of people are getting bored, so you constantly need to keep bringing in people.

[Leodric]

If you can't deal with a trial getting loot while you don't, you don't deserve to run a guild.

Deal with it.

What a well thought out post, could you eleborate why people wouldn't deservere to run a guild because of that?

[munkeyinorbit]

TL;DR: Personal Loot is so fucking restrictive and not organized that it simply has no place in guilds who really want to progress. All this change does is make guilds even more wary of giving new players a chance in their team, especially if they're much lower progressed, have taken breaks, or have changed guilds repeatedly, and this is already a huge concern on live. Making it even worse is just causing a much bigger problem, especially how small the playerbase is compared to expansions ago.

Hahaha. Yet another post where you get angry over nothing. Your "logic" doesn't make any sense. "If we have to give loot to random trials then we wont get trials anymore and it is Blizzards fault that I would rather throw my toys out of the cot than adapt". Die then. The worse players are the ones that do not adapt. Do you think you are going to change anything with another fat cry?

[Steampunkette]

The entitlement is strong with this one.

If that "Trial" joins the group and contributes, they deserve a shot at loot. Period. I don't give a damn how many of your "High Quality Always There" mains are in the guild-run. The idea that everyone else should give up the chance at improving their characters until 3-4 weeks or months or whatever point it is that you deign to say they're worthy of gaining some kind of loot is fucking ludicrous.

That kind of bullshit thinking is what destroys progression guilds because people cycle in and out of the game was they burn out and you -need- "Trials" to join in and complete content. But if those "Trials" know they're going to have any loot they could use be handed off to someone you like better (Who may even have better gear than they do) they're not going to join up and help you take down that next boss.

That kind of entitled thinking is what kills the raiding scene, making it less and less open and more and more elitist is not the way to get the raiding population (And thus the subscriber base) to grow.

[Leodric]

There's a reason that organized raiding is a minority and solo players are the majority. People aren't trustworthy.

People are actually trust worthy. If you have gotten a lot of bad experiences regarding that, maybe the problem lies on your part.

[Eothedk]

The more committed people should absolutely be rewarded with the loot.

[Radaney]

No shit, but this is after they've been with us for a night or two and gotten all this loot that someone else would have instead. Someone else that we wouldn't be removing the next day.

Yeh shit dude, that 1 drop they got in a run.

How dare they.

Who gives a shit.

Other than you narcissistic memememememememmemeem people apparently.

Trials getting loot isn't the problem with removing master loot in my eyes, it's just the lack of control. I don't intentionally spite trials.

[Zarrant]

There's a reason that organized raiding is a minority and solo players are the majority. People aren't trustworthy.

Theres a reason why personal loot is already forced for solo players, dont fuck over the mythic raiders. I don't want to bring a trial in for the last boss on farm, he dies in the first 10 seconds of the fight and ends up getting a 985 piece of gear and the mount. That is actually retarded.

[Ponji]

No shit, but this is after they've been with us for a night or two and gotten all this loot that someone else would have instead. Someone else that we wouldn't be removing the next day.

Maybe you should screen your trials better.

Not even referring to my loot specifically, more loot that's being taken away from the guild and being given to someone who doesn't deserve it, someone who didn't put in their time and dies to fire and other dumb shit.

Again, screen your trials better. If you're in a top 100 guild, why are you here crying about it?

Oh yes, because it's so easy to pinpoint who is good. We've had many players with seemingly good logs and seemingly good mechanics (low deaths, damage taken, etc) and yet they end up some of the worst shitters ever.

You're hilarious. Are you in charge of recruitment? Do you know what recruitment interviews are? Do you know what questions to ask to make sure you're not gonna get screwed by some pleb coming in for the night? Obviously not.

Even still, all this does is remove choices from organized raiding. It makes virtually no sense to remove it.

No, it removes class/gear stacking during the first two weeks and should make the progression race a little more interesting. How many people have time to gear 5 toons so that people can rotate in an out of mythic based on what's needed to clear content? You're not even at the upper echelon of raiding man, you need to calm down.

[Polarthief]

The entitlement is strong with this one.

If that "Trial" joins the group and contributes, they deserve a shot at loot. Period. I don't give a damn how many of your "High Quality Always There" mains are in the guild-run. The idea that everyone else should give up the chance at improving their characters until 3-4 weeks or months or whatever point it is that you deign to say they're worthy of gaining some kind of loot.

That kind of bullshit thinking is what destroys progression guilds because people cycle in and out of the game was they burn out and you -need- "Trials" to join in and complete content. But if those "Trials" know they're going to have any loot they could use be handed off to someone you like better (Who may even have better gear than they do) they're not going to join up and help you take down that next boss.

That kind of entitled thinking is what kills the raiding scene, making it less and less open and more and more elitist is not the way to get the raiding population (And thus the subscriber base) to grow.

Yet pulling in new people who get that piece of gear in one kill you've been trying to get for 2 months now simply doesn't drop because Personal loot sucks fat wangs WON'T burn out the dedicated players?

Good thought process. Try looking at the other side once in awhile.

Yeh shit dude, that 1 drop they got in a run.

How dare they.

Who gives a shit.

See post above.

- - - Updated - - -

No, it removes class/gear stacking during the first two weeks and should make the progression race a little more interesting.

Oh yes, because raw RNG on whether you get loot or not, let alone it being a piece that's actually fucking useful for you (PLUS Titanforging RNG) is a lot more interesting than "down boss, see what drops, give to people".

Seriously, you must be the luckiest fuck ever or just trolling at this point. I've maybe 5 times total throughout Legion gotten a piece that I've been eyeing forever via Personal Loot/Coins. 5 times in 5 raids total.

[Radaney]

Yet pulling in new people who get that piece of gear in one kill you've been trying to get for 2 months now simply doesn't drop because Personal loot sucks fat wangs WON'T burn out the dedicated players?

Good thought process. Try looking at the other side once in awhile.



See post above.

- - - Updated - - -



Oh yes, because raw RNG on whether you get loot or not, let alone it being a piece that's actually fucking useful for you (PLUS Titanforging RNG) is a lot more interesting than "down boss, see what drops, give to people".

Maybe people should care more about the boss kill than who is getting the loot then.

If someone is in your guild who you don't want getting loot, then they shouldn't be in your guild.

It really is that simple.

This entire loot change is honestly to combat community elitism and toxicity.