What is the worst "war crime" that was committed by either faction?

[FelPlague]

The Forsaken are undead abominations. They must be eradicated on sight.



Even if we did indeed mass slaughter every man, woman or child, every civilian, tortured or experimented on them, it still would not be a war crime.

The Horde races aren't people and do not have a right to exist on Azeroth. It would be pest control.

i mean... i sorta agree? but not to that extent, the horde has alot of races that do have the right... The orcs do not, they came to the world to destroy it, but i still think they deserve a chance as they can be good people like thrall... But they are a very risky race that can easily turn feral.

The undead are really the only race i can say should be entirely wiped out.

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They also pretty much forced Pandaren to work for the Alliance to build that Airstrip in the Jade Forest. The Pandaren thought they were building homes or something for them. Can't quite remember. Horde has one of the first quests to rescue them for what is pretty much slavery.

and the alliance saves the pandaren from horde slavery in the south... so...

[Selastan]

Jaina only killed those who tried to attack her, she doesent kill civilians, but the rest was a fucked up civil war, people are going to die.
also where did she learn it was a "false flag attack" able to show me?

It was Garrosh loyalists wearing Sunreaver colors that stole the Bell, not actual Sunreavers. Still, even after all this is settled, she still completely abandons Dalaran when fighting the GODDAMNED LEGION just because she doesn't want the Sunreavers, WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, are allowed back in Dalaran.

[FelPlague]

Can't wait for that moment when Alliance players see just what their "good guy faction" is capable of in BfA.

do you have examples?
cause ive been on the beta and so far ive seen alliance do abit of shady stuff but horde even far worse for example the lumber camp.

[Selastan]

Jaina only killed those who tried to attack her, she doesent kill civilians, but the rest was a fucked up civil war, people are going to die.
also where did she learn it was a "false flag attack" able to show me?

And no, it isn't just those who attack her. She nails fleeing civilians in the back.

[FelPlague]

It was Garrosh loyalists wearing Sunreaver colors that stole the Bell, not actual Sunreavers. Still, even after all this is settled, she still completely abandons Dalaran when fighting the GODDAMNED LEGION just because she doesn't want the Sunreavers, WHO DIDN'T DO ANYTHING, are allowed back in Dalaran.

yes... WE KNOW THAT but you said JAINA knows that... We are all seeing gods who know even more then the titans themselves... jaina does not know that it was garroshs doing entirely. because really it wasent, lothremar allowed it and even knew it happened after without telling jaina.

again she knows nothing that the sunreavers didnt do anything and its not just the sunreavers IT IS THE WHOLE HORDE have you even been to dalaran? go into the horde side and notice the vats of plague blight all about... That is what she wanted TO NOT BE THERE.

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And no, it isn't just those who attack her. She nails fleeing civilians in the back.

no... i dont think you did the scenario.
her AI is as this.

Path circle around dalaran
upon coming into aggro range teleport civilian away.
cooldown on teleport, so once one civilian is teleported, she will need time to teleport another.
so the rest of the civilians aggro and run to her starting to punch her.
she fights back, but will over time teleport them all without killing any of them.
https://youtu.be/70AIowEbp_g?t=2m11s
you can see the player here killing the npcs (not inteded) but jaina teleporting them, hell at one point he starts killing one and she teleports the civilian away before the player can finish them, then quickly teleporting another way.

If you just leave jaina to do her own thing she will never kill a civilian.

[Shedim]

Not making Basic Campfire Warchief.

[Queen of Hamsters]

do you have examples?
cause ive been on the beta and so far ive seen alliance do abit of shady stuff but horde even far worse for example the lumber camp.

No?

I said I "can't wait", meaning I 100% believe Ion when he says that neither faction is more or less evil than the other. If we go an entire expansion about faction war without 1 faction actually making an impression, I'd be sorely disappointed.

[omeomorfismo]

stormwindians basically send alliance adventures to genocide murlocs to use as food.
even forsaken with their human flesh addiction or troll for their ritual didnt something like this.

[Elba]

Most Horde races are native to Azeroth, save the Orcs. Alliance are mostly descendent from the foreign Titan creations. We have more of a claim to the planet than you guys do.

Cockroaches are native as well. Doesn't mean they shouldn't be squashed.

As I said, the Horde races ain't people. They got no rights.

The Alliance will cleanse the stain that is the Horde. In the name of the Light.

i mean... i sorta agree? but not to that extent, the horde has alot of races that do have the right... The orcs do not, they came to the world to destroy it, but i still think they deserve a chance as they can be good people like thrall... But they are a very risky race that can easily turn feral.

The undead are really the only race i can say should be entirely wiped out.

Disagree. They deserve nothing. Actually, Thrall does deserve something... his head split open by Shalamayne.

[Zephre]

Horde: Theramore.

Alliance: Nothing. The Alliance has never done anything in war that was morally wrong.

If we go by modern standards on what's considered warcrimes, I'm pretty sure Admiral Rodgers actions in the Jade Forest is considered one, murdering unarmed soldiers swimming in the water, have you forgotten that? Rell Nightwind didn't approve of that.

[Ielenia]

Hello everyone. With BFA and more faction conflict coming, I've been thinking about what we've already done in the past. A few of them come to mind - bombing of Southshore, gunning down the unarmed Horde soldiers in the ocean and so on. Say, what do you think was the worst crime in WoW's history by the Alliance and/or Horde? Thanks in advance.

I'm going by real life standards here, I imagine the Horde vastly outnumber the Alliance in the "war crimes" department, mostly because of the Forsaken using their Blight as part of their arsenal, as it'd fall within the "chemical warfare" ban, here. Off the top of my head, though, the only "war crime" committed by the Alliance that I can recall were the orc internment camps from the first war, though.

As for what other people are mentioned, Theramore, well, despite having civilians living there, the place still was a military target, unfortunately. Sure, the way Garrosh went through with it was abhorrent, but yeah, the place was a valid military target.

As for Camp Taraujo, well, again, another military target. And the Alliance allowed the non-combatants to flee in safety. A courtesy that Garrosh conveniently forgot to extend, mind you.

[FelPlague]

stormwindians basically send alliance adventures to genocide murlocs to use as food.
even forsaken with their human flesh addiction or troll for their ritual didnt something like this.

w...what? yes... The undead do just that... are you serious murdering murlocs? the horde murder LOTS of murlocs...

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If we go by modern standards on what's considered warcrimes, I'm pretty sure Admiral Rodgers actions in the Jade Forest is considered one, murdering unarmed soldiers swimming in the water, have you forgotten that? Rell Nightwind didn't approve of that.

they could have been armed, and they refused to surrender as they swam towards the alliance.
also these are orcs... They dont need weapons to break peoples limbs
You dont say "The grizzly bear was unarmed so why did you shoot it as it charged you!?"

[therealbowser]

Didn't the Alliance shoot a TON of drowning Horde sailors in the Pandaren intro because they didn't want prisoners? That was kinda fucked up

No, they shot them because Admiral Rogers told them to. Her reasoning was not "I don't want prisoners", her reasoning was "They won't hesitate you strangle you with their bare hands". Take that as you will, but I thought I'd correct this with context.

[FelPlague]

No?

I said I "can't wait", meaning I 100% believe Ion when he says that neither faction is more or less evil than the other. If we go an entire expansion about faction war without 1 faction actually making an impression, I'd be sorely disappointed.

i see, i do hope we get to see some of the dark side of alliance, and i do hope to bring justice to sky captain rogers for stormheim...

[Whitedragon]

Man this Is a funny subject on the one hand picking just one thing for the Horde is hard, on the other finding one for the Alliance may be harder.....

If I did I would pick attacking the Newly founded Orc nation by Daelin during the last part of War 3 at a time of peace, or the gunning down of defenseless horde forces during the opening of MoP for the Alliance.

For the Horde I would say ether the treatment of captured Theramore citizens or the use of peaceful alliance citizens for the development of the blight.

Never forget Camp Taurajo!

If camp Taurajo is the worst thing the Alliance ever did then I feel pretty good considering they let the civilians flee by leaving an opening for them lol.

[FelPlague]

No, they shot them because Admiral Rogers told them to. Her reasoning was not "I don't want prisoners", her reasoning was "They won't hesitate you strangle you with their bare hands". Take that as you will, but I thought I'd correct this with context.

I dont think it was a good situation, i say both sides are at fault, the horde could have tread water and spoke to the alliance instead of rushing them, and the alliance could have gave more warning.

But she does make sense, we are not talking human to human with gun here, we are talking ORC to human with gun. As i say above, its like yelling at someone for shooting a grizzly bear charging them because "it was unarmed"

[Santti]

and the alliance saves the pandaren from horde slavery in the south... so...

I've not played Alliance in ages, but I felt that was the case (it was a PvP oriented expansion, at least initially, so it makes sense to implement quests to paint the other faction as monsters to fuel the war between each other).

Anyway, both factions have done bad things, but I think Horde has done more and worse things. Most notably by the Forsaken with their many plagues and experiments on humans, and the bombings of Stonetalon and Theramore.

[FelPlague]

Man this Is a funny subject on the one hand picking just one thing for the Horde is hard, on the other finding one for the Alliance may be harder.....

If I did I would pick attacking the Newly founded Orc nation by Daelin during the last part of War 3 at a time of peace, or the gunning down of defenseless horde forces during the opening of MoP for the Alliance.

For the Horde I would say ether the treatment of captured Theramore citizens or the use of peaceful alliance citizens for the development of the blight.



If camp Taurajo is the worst thing the Alliance ever did then I feel pretty good considering they let the civilians flee by leaving an opening for them lol.

The daelin thing was not known of, and once it was he was taken care of. The gunning thing i speak about above, real fucked up situation with both sides at fault.

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I've not played Alliance in ages, but I felt that was the case (it was a PvP oriented expansion, at least initially, so it makes sense to implement quests to paint the other faction as monsters to fuel the war between each other).

Anyway, both factions have done bad things, but I think Horde has done more and worse things. Most notably by the Forsaken with their many plagues and experiments on humans, and the bombings of Stonetalon and Theramore.

The horde uses mass amounts of demons to capture and torture pandaren children to force their parents to work or risk the childrens lives, also using mass demons to threaten them.

[therealbowser]

They also pretty much forced Pandaren to work for the Alliance to build that Airstrip in the Jade Forest. The Pandaren thought they were building homes or something for them. Can't quite remember. Horde has one of the first quests to rescue them for what is pretty much slavery.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Unreliable_Allies

Eh, remembered it a slightly wrong.

While I'm correcting context, the pandaren were never held against their will by the Alliance. Whether or not they would have is unknown; the Alliance tricked the pandaren into helping them build a 'settlement', which turned out to be a base. And the pandaren were just starting to put that together; they were not bound by chains and being whipped to work harder, or whatever it is Horde does with their slaves (they love working people to death, just ask the Forsaken, lol).

On the other hand, the orc warlocks and forsaken literally held children hostage to force the coercion of a pandaren village down south, and if that wasn't bad enough, were chopping down their apple orchid -- which is their livelihood built up out of generations of care -- for lumber when there was an entire forest of common wood nearby.

As one more additional comparison, the Alliance leader that is corrupted by sha is done so unintentionally, while the orc warlock in question is literally manipulating with those forces with some knowledge of what it can do. What the Horde were doing there, whatever it may have been, was far more sinister than the Alliance, which was merely building a foothold on the continent (and likely searching for Anduin).

I'm not saying Alliance are innocent, noble heroes, or anything... but in this specific case, they were absolutely the lesser evil.

[sam86]

both sides crossed line, i consider attacking and killing children the worst, and both sides did that