Was Raising The Dead Really That Evil In BfL?

[TheEaterofSouls]

I have an interesting question. Are the Horde soldiers Sylvanas is raising in the battle for lorderon sentient and/or causing souls to suffer? Or is she just controlling dead bodies like puppets, using useless flesh and bone as a tool? Cuz i think this is what separates this action from being ok, to being amoral. If she is torturing the souls or bodies of sentient beings, that's bad. But i didnt see her raise them with val'kir if i remember. So i don't know if she's just puppeting inert bodies or torturing the people she's supposed to be protecting. Does anyone have clarification on this.

I'm NOT talking about using blight and sacrificing soldiers. I'm talking about whether or not the corpses she raised, follow the same rules as her forsaken, or are just flesh Puppets. If they are just flesh puppets, that move wasnt evil imo.

[Selastan]

I have an interesting question. Are the Horde soldiers Sylvanas is raising in the battle for lorderon sentient and/or causing souls to suffer? Or is she just controlling dead bodies like puppets, using useless flesh and bone as a tool? Cuz i think this is what separates this action from being ok, to being amoral. If she is torturing the souls or bodies of sentient beings, that's bad. But i didnt see her raise them with val'kir if i remember. So i don't know if she's just puppeting inert bodies or torturing the people she's supposed to be protecting. Does anyone have clarification on this

Most likely just puppet bodies, no different than your standard mindless ghoul or skeleton. The spirit remains where it was before and isn't forced back into the body.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

she kills her own troops then raises them so ya tis evil.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Most likely just puppet bodies, no different than your standard mindless ghoul or skeleton. The spirit remains where it was before and isn't forced back into the body.

Which would mean people are blowing that moment out of proportion. That's not evil, she's just tactically using those bodies to defend the horde. Without making those who died suffer. I'd argue that's more heroic than letting their deaths mean nothing.

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she kills her own troops then raises them so ya tis evil.

I get killing her own troops as being questionable. ButIf you look at it as raising undead. Is she forcing their souls back into their body to fight? Or just using the corpses las puppets and they have no sentience or soul whatsoever?

[Bathory]

It makes sense, but it's also one of those cold/brutal war tactics that split your forces, ESPECIALLY after she killed them in the first place.

[The Stormbringer]

Most likely just puppet bodies, no different than your standard mindless ghoul or skeleton. The spirit remains where it was before and isn't forced back into the body.

Some ghouls and skeletons are clearly intelligent, though. There's a skeleton in Acherus you talk to, who forges armor and weapons, and even helps you upgrade your Artifact weapons.

[TheEaterofSouls]

Some ghouls and skeletons are clearly intelligent, though. There's a skeleton in Acherus you talk to, who forges armor and weapons, and even helps you upgrade your Artifact weapons.

True, whether or not these soldiers are like those skeletons makes a big difference for this specific event imo. Those skeletons had souls put back into their bodies. I'm not sure about these ones .

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Which would mean people are blowing that moment out of proportion. That's not evil, she's just tactically using those bodies to defend the horde. Without making those who died suffer. I'd argue that's more heroic than letting their deaths mean nothing.

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I get killing her own troops as being questionable. ButIf you look at it as raising undead. Is she forcing their souls back into their body to fight? Or just using the corpses?

how is it questionable? she plagues her own troops then raising them into undeath to fight for her, something that literally every race is against. shes evil there is no getting around it at this point.

[Qualia]

I'm NOT talking about using blight and sacrificing soldiers. I'm talking about whether or not the corpses she raised, follow the same rules as her forsaken, or are just flesh Puppets. If they are just flesh puppets, that move wasnt evil imo.

I believe that raising the dead is generally being at least frown upon by the living. It isn't something strange, Sylvanas was at least desecrating their corpses there, even assuming the spell had nothing to do with the souls. Would someone be happy if they know that, after they die, some other would be using their corpses as a tool for their own purpose? It's not even a case of Sylvanas using a spell using the corpses as fuel, and the corpses disappeared while the skeletons appeared out of nothing (which actually would be more acceptable); She was reanimating the bones from the corpses themselves.

Even Ogrimm was sickened just by seeing Gul'dan's Deathknight, considered them "unnatural abominations" - and those DKs' souls were willingly to be raised, while the corpses belonged to their enemy (the Alliance's).

[mickybrighteyes]

she kills her own all troops then raises them so ya tis evil.

emphasis on ALL.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

emphasis on ALL.

half of the troops don't matter though killing the alliance isn't evil.

[Traveler Voltin]

Most likely just puppet bodies, no different than your standard mindless ghoul or skeleton. The spirit remains where it was before and isn't forced back into the body.

ghouls have souls though

[Kikazz]

I have an interesting question. Are the Horde soldiers Sylvanas is raising in the battle for lorderon sentient and/or causing souls to suffer? Or is she just controlling dead bodies like puppets, using useless flesh and bone as a tool? Cuz i think this is what separates this action from being ok, to being amoral. If she is torturing the souls or bodies of sentient beings, that's bad. But i didnt see her raise them with val'kir if i remember. So i don't know if she's just puppeting inert bodies or torturing the people she's supposed to be protecting. Does anyone have clarification on this.

I'm NOT talking about using blight and sacrificing soldiers. I'm talking about whether or not the corpses she raised, follow the same rules as her forsaken, or are just flesh Puppets. If they are just flesh puppets, that move wasnt evil imo.

nope not evil, she raised the *DEAD*, to fight off the alliance, thats the same as anduin reviving the dead (look at the cinematic lol).

in the ingame cinematic available on Alpha/Beta, they are raised as Skeletons, not as actual Forsaken, ala Army of the dead.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

nope not evil, she raised the *DEAD*, to fight off the alliance, thats the same as anduin reviving the dead (look at the cinematic lol).

in the ingame cinematic available on Alpha/Beta, they are raised as Skeletons, not as actual Forsaken, ala Army of the dead.

anduin heals he doesn't res any one, he also didn't kill his own men.

[Qualia]

nope not evil, she raised the *DEAD*, to fight off the alliance, thats the same as anduin reviving the dead (look at the cinematic lol).

If you think reanimating a corpse is the same as bringing someone back to life, you have some kind of rather... twisted sense. Just imagine it: if someone tell you "Hey, after you die, I'm going to make your body into my puppet", are you going to be as grateful as you'd if he had said "Hey, after you die, I will bring you back to life"?

Not to mentioned that, as said above, Anduin was just casting a mass heal, he wasn't resurrecting them (not that it matters, anyway, being resurrected should make them feeling more grateful towards him than just being healed).

[Kraddark]

Killing her own wounded soldiers was probably the more "evil" part of it.

[Felrane]

Its most likely just like her dark arrow ability in War3 but on a larger scale. They wont last very long and will fall back to the ground dead when the time is up. Though her using the plague before all the troops could get back seems a bit messed up. From what it looked like they were already on the ground either dieing or already dead.

[Linkedblade]

I have an interesting question. Are the Horde soldiers Sylvanas is raising in the battle for lorderon sentient and/or causing souls to suffer? Or is she just controlling dead bodies like puppets, using useless flesh and bone as a tool? Cuz i think this is what separates this action from being ok, to being amoral. If she is torturing the souls or bodies of sentient beings, that's bad. But i didnt see her raise them with val'kir if i remember. So i don't know if she's just puppeting inert bodies or torturing the people she's supposed to be protecting. Does anyone have clarification on this.

I'm NOT talking about using blight and sacrificing soldiers. I'm talking about whether or not the corpses she raised, follow the same rules as her forsaken, or are just flesh Puppets. If they are just flesh puppets, that move wasnt evil imo.

Yeah they are reanimated corpses, unlike the Forsaken or DKs where the soul is attached

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nope not evil, she raised the *DEAD*, to fight off the alliance, thats the same as anduin reviving the dead (look at the cinematic lol).

in the ingame cinematic available on Alpha/Beta, they are raised as Skeletons, not as actual Forsaken, ala Army of the dead.

And the only two races that can be resurrected as Forsaken are humans and elves.

[ello]

edit: tbh i was half asleep when I read this thread and didn't realize it was supposed to be exclusively about the necromancy. Oops.

No, I don't think raising skeletons was evil. I think it was a desperate act in a desperate situation. They are also soulless automatons so it doesn't have the same implications as regular, free-willed undead.

I don't have a problem with Sylvanas' character and the overall story in BFU so much as I have a problem with the conveyance, which is something that seems to consistently plague Blizzard's writing. The dialogue, in particular, was poorly written and felt out of character for Sylvanas. I feel more Horde players would be able to appreciate the story Blizzard is trying to tell if the writers actually put some effort into making the conflict even-handed and highlighting the desperation of the situation.

The real problem I have with Sylvanas in BfA is the reasoning for going after Teldrassil. I just don't understand the strategic value here and that concerns me deeply. But that's a different topic.

[TheRagebear]

Implying that there's a form of necromancy that somehow doesn't mess with the soul is a bit of a stretch to begin with. At that point it isn't even necromancy, it's just enchanting bones and flesh with arcane or something. Tortured souls are kind of the fuel for shadow magic and such. Assuming that Sylvanas has mastered this unheard of, benevolent necromancy though then yeah. It's meh. The plague-bombing still sticks out as a sore spot though and I'll simply point to the Wrathgate cinematic and say that even an orc on the verge of death, peacefully bleeding out after a battle well-fought is probably still not going to enjoy his flesh melting off all of a sudden.