Do you think they will release classic with unviable specializations?

[shaunika123]

every spec was viable for something

and every class was viable for everything.

people seem to be confusing vanilla with legion.

1. in vanilla you didnt just "raid or die" you could actually do other stuff
2. specs were much more specific and had more identity it wasnt "everything should do everything" like it is now.
3. if you wanted one thing with your class you played that spec, if you wanted another you played another.


ideally they would cycle from 1.0 to 1.12 and when it runs its course they could do new stuff (and balance changes) in 1.13 if they wanted.

[kamuimac]

I know a lot of the crowd wants a pure vanilla experience? But do you really think blizzard will release classic and only warriors will be able to tank? Generally curious?

the part of me which is a dick wants them to release it with not tuned specs just so half of idiots who want vanilla "pure" will be stuck with chars that nobody wants because everybody will be stacking raids with 4 warrior tanks 4 priest heals 2 mana batteries for real healers and 10 mages 10 rogues 10 warriors (maybe -1 sould shard farming&curse for real dps bitch and -1 tranq shot bringer

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They'll release classic with how classes were. You're talking about not viable very loosely though. That only applies to progress raiding for the most part. You can tank dungeons as a Prot Paladin, even some farm raid content. You can dps as boomkin or feral druid. It's just below par for endgame raiding.

Stop perpetuating that gibberish.

ye lol sure- how can you claim this bs in age of raider io 3500 for +5 and itlv 970 for normal antorus :P

keep spreading this nonsense i dont mind - will be hillarious to watch outcome of people beliving in such nonsense

[Vestig3]

every spec was viable for something

and every class was viable for everything, Just No

people seem to be confusing vanilla with legion.

1. in vanilla you didnt just "raid or die" you could actually do other stuff
2. specs were much more specific and had more identity it wasnt "everything should do everything" like it is now.
3. if you wanted one thing with your class you played that spec, if you wanted another you played another.


ideally they would cycle from 1.0 to 1.12 and when it runs its course they could do new stuff (and balance changes) in 1.13 if they wanted.

You forgot to menton that not every spec was viable for progression raiding.

[Drosul]

every spec was viable for something

and every class was viable for everything.

people seem to be confusing vanilla with legion.

1. in vanilla you didnt just "raid or die" you could actually do other stuff
2. specs were much more specific and had more identity it wasnt "everything should do everything" like it is now.
3. if you wanted one thing with your class you played that spec, if you wanted another you played another.


ideally they would cycle from 1.0 to 1.12 and when it runs its course they could do new stuff (and balance changes) in 1.13 if they wanted.

This entire post was categorically false...

1. Vanilla WAS ENTIRELY a "Raid or die" mentality compared to classic.... No welfare gear, no welfare difficulties, no WQ gear, no easy PvP gear (or templates)..... If you wanted to not suck in vanilla, you raided... Period. Your alternatives where:
a) Rep gear.... which was inferior to MC gear
b) Crafted gear... which was inferior to BWL gear, or in some rare cases AQ40 gear
c.) Dungeon epics.... also inferior to MC gear
d.) PvP Rank Epics (the bg rep gear was covered under "rep gear") Nearly invariably farmed up by USING PVE GEAR, and still only on par with AQ40 gear at the highest levels, and only after a massively larger time investment climbing ranks.

So what else could you do in the game besides raid?
1. Farm mats.... to sell to raiders.
2. Farm gold to buy craftables... from raiders (where most of the top end patterns dropped)
3. PvP for rank.... which again was nearly universally done with raid level gear to increase honor grinding efficiency.
4. Run dungeons... Which you outgear within 2 weeks of hitting level cap.

It's not a myth that vanilla was "raid or die" People just don't remember that vanilla wasn't a casual hand holding fest where raiding was entirely optional, like it is for the live game... or mistakenly believe that because they where bad/inexperienced/couldn't find a raid guild back in those days that somehow it means the game back then wasn't entirely designed around raiding.

2 A spec's identity of "is bad" isn't an identity... Enhance shaman sucked at literally everything. Raiding, Dungeons, and even PvP where people most claim them for viability, but they where still vastly inferior options. Part of their problem was that they didn't posses gearing options to even attempt to keep pace with better class/specs, specifically because they couldn't get into a raid.

3. And people do play another... that's a symptom of the problem. Four of the 5 least played classes, even adjusting for faction on PServers are Druid/Paladin/Shaman/Priest. People don't want to play a gimped class that is pigeonholed entirely into being a healer, no matter how many points they spend on a dps spec, and now that they know better, they blatantly don't. Meanwhile Mage/Warrior/Rogue (the top 3 PvE dps) make up over 60% of the pserver population now as more and more people opt to not play the gimp class in favor of one that doesn't blatantly suck.... Another interesting one to observe is hunters... In OG vanilla they where the most populated class hands down.... People now know better and they now sit middle of the pack, specifically because Hunters for some reason, despite being a "pure" dps class, end up paying the Warrior's "hybrid tax" and deal abysmal damage at the raid level.... Again, people don't want to play a class that sucks at doing it's job.

As for patch progression.... This will blatantly not happen for simple programming reasons.... Going forward and reverse engineering every patch and balance change while trying to preserve every single mechanical interaction and non game breaking bug would be an astronomical amount of development and wasted resources. We're vastly more likely to get something approximating "1.13" out of the gate, but (hopefully) with some built in time gates on various dungeons/raids/things like the BG rep-gear to better simulate their actual release into the game. And even then, there might be pieces of things taken from earlier patches (like I'm fairly confident we end up with the much earlier NPC filled version of AV)

[McFuu]

It would be nice if at some point they brought a couple of other classes up to speed to be able to Raid effectively. But...
Like was said, there were a fair number of builds that could do decently at most end game activities. Pushing raids, isn't most end game activity though, and only a few classes really can do that.
If you are a bit subjective about it, when pushing the Mythic race, there are only a few used classes anyway. It was more diverse than vanilla, but still depending on strat some classes don't even have a shot at going.

I wouldn't want balancing done around this very small niche.

[Deleted]

If they make vanilla, but not vanilla balance. Its no longer vanilla.

If people want vanilla, with balance of today, then just play bfa :]

I loved vanilla, I had lots of fun through all WoW versions. Do I think Vanilla was amazing? lolno, you're smoking something seriously unhealthy if you're telling me vanilla was well balanced, cos it wasnt, it really wasnt. Barman shanker being better than any other dagger in the game cos it was slow, if you had enough AP?

Pendulum of Doom being the best axe in the game prior to the Reaper for a very long time? And even then, if you had sufficent AP, Pendulum was still better cos redonkulos attack speed.

[shaunika123]

You forgot to menton that not every spec was viable for progression raiding.

whys would I need to mention it when the entire point of my post was that they didnt need to be?

and yes, every class was viable for everything

every class was good for raids, and every class was good for pvp, and every class was good for dungeons, and leveling and farming etc

not every spec EVERY CLASS

2 A spec's identity of "is bad" isn't an identity... Enhance shaman sucked at literally everything. Raiding, Dungeons, and even PvP where people most claim them for viability, but they where still vastly inferior options. Part of their problem was that they didn't posses gearing options to even attempt to keep pace with better class/specs, specifically because they couldn't get into a raid.

enhance was great for pvp

you could literally oneshot people lol

they also had a ranged interrupt on a 6(5) second CD
pretty strong heals
fear removal, grounding totem, etc

they were very good

[Deleted]

i think they're going to release it EXACTLY as it was.

Whatever they do after idk, they might try to balance stuff and implement some small changes down the line or they might just leave it be and never touch it again.

[Coraxes]

Nah they won't do that

[Dirtyfist]

Warriors were the only class able to taunt. And many classic mechanics required frequent tank swaps. 4 Horsemen comes to mind.

*Cough* Druids had Taunt *Cough*

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Only 2 things I feel NEED to be included in Classic are Dual Talent Specialization and the removal of the + defence stat.

Spell hit and hit can stay

[shaunika123]

*Cough* Druids had Taunt *Cough*

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Only 2 things I feel NEED to be included in Classic are Dual Talent Specialization and the removal of the + defence stat.

Spell hit and hit can stay

you realize that if we put in everyone"s "only 2 things" we'd arrive at legion right?

[Raserisk]

Every spec is viable in Vanilla - it's only a matter of what type of guild that you'll be playing with and what their leadership wants out of their raid composition. Make no mistake about it - some specs lack damage or abilities compared to others but I feel that the min-max mentality that is so prevalent on private servers won't be as dominant during the first wave of Classic servers.

You're going to see tens of thousands of both old and new players heading to Classic and min maxing isn't going to be the first thing on their minds especially if they haven't played Vanilla before or even touched it since 2006.

With how simplistic most raid encounters in Vanilla are up until C'Thun or some end bosses in Naxxramas, I actually look forward to seeing a guild that incorporates hybrids into their raids and see how they do.

[Grimreaper]

the part of me which is a dick wants them to release it with not tuned specs just so half of idiots who want vanilla "pure" will be stuck with chars that nobody wants because everybody will be stacking raids with 4 warrior tanks 4 priest heals 2 mana batteries for real healers and 10 mages 10 rogues 10 warriors (maybe -1 sould shard farming&curse for real dps bitch and -1 tranq shot bringer

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ye lol sure- how can you claim this bs in age of raider io 3500 for +5 and itlv 970 for normal antorus :P

keep spreading this nonsense i dont mind - will be hillarious to watch outcome of people beliving in such nonsense

And yet there are private servers running pretty much exact copies of vanilla where this isnt the case. Where every spec, viable or not, are brought to progress raids.

[Drosul]

enhance was great for pvp

you could literally oneshot people lol

they also had a ranged interrupt on a 6(5) second CD
pretty strong heals
fear removal, grounding totem, etc

they were very good

It really wasn't though.... It had horrid sustainability in combat via very limited mana pool/survivability, and it's ability to global people was insanely RNG based and not at a common thing. 20% to proc WF and maybe a 25% crit chance doesn't bode well for your odds of hitting those triple crit WF (quadruple crit often, since it also featured a stormstrike during the same global as the white attack, and only one of them could WF proc at a time via internal cd)

There's a massive difference between being able to do something and doing something frequently. An Arcane mage dropping AP/Trinket/PoM Pyro into someone's face was powerful... but only happened every 3 minutes.... That still made it MASSIVELY more common and reliable than Enhance being able to dumpster people with a massive dose of RNG.

Enhance where overall a terrible pvp class/spec, whos sole redeeming features where that they where almost hilariously easy to play and they had meme level burst potential when the slot machine rolled in your favor.

[shaunika123]

It really wasn't though.... It had horrid sustainability in combat via very limited mana pool/survivability, and it's ability to global people was insanely RNG based and not at a common thing. 20% to proc WF and maybe a 25% crit chance doesn't bode well for your odds of hitting those triple crit WF (quadruple crit often, since it also featured a stormstrike during the same global as the white attack, and only one of them could WF proc at a time via internal cd)

There's a massive difference between being able to do something and doing something frequently. An Arcane mage dropping AP/Trinket/PoM Pyro into someone's face was powerful... but only happened every 3 minutes.... That still made it MASSIVELY more common and reliable than Enhance being able to dumpster people with a massive dose of RNG.

Enhance where overall a terrible pvp class/spec, whos sole redeeming features where that they where almost hilariously easy to play and they had meme level burst potential when the slot machine rolled in your favor.

okay fine

meanwhile people were beating full netherwind mages on level 56 as enha shamans....

guess they were cheating

[Drosul]

okay fine

meanwhile people were beating full netherwind mages on level 56 as enha shamans....

guess they were cheating

I killed my first 60 (a mage) as a lvl 46 warlock via fear spamming him until he drowned in that lake in NE STV while trying to gank me. Freak occurrences can happen.

In your specific example, the mage died because they where super bad, apparently not knowing how to rank 1 frost bolt, and sitting within purge/shock range or blowing their load into a grounding totem. Also I'd wager that the shaman hit the RNG lottery.... because he had to have first hit his target (not easy with a 4 level disadvantage), and likely procced WF and/or crit multiple times.

Once again, being lucky =/= being good. Enhance in pvp could get lucky, but that still doesn't make them better than a trash tier spec for pvp overall.

I wasn't good when I drowned that mage.... I was -=lucky=- my fears even landed (gogo suppression talent helping out on that one) and that I apparently never failed one of the resist checks for it to break early (fear had an invisible "dot tick" that basically rolled the dice again to see if fear would break early.... taking damage increased the chance of this occurring)... 99x out of 100 that mage should have been laughing at my corpse, I just happened to only encounter him on that one 100th time

[shaunika123]

I killed my first 60 (a mage) as a lvl 46 warlock via fear spamming him until he drowned in that lake in NE STV while trying to gank me. Freak occurrences can happen.

In your specific example, the mage died because they where super bad, apparently not knowing how to rank 1 frost bolt, and sitting within purge/shock range or blowing their load into a grounding totem. Also I'd wager that the shaman hit the RNG lottery.... because he had to have first hit his target (not easy with a 4 level disadvantage), and likely procced WF and/or crit multiple times.

Once again, being lucky =/= being good. Enhance in pvp could get lucky, but that still doesn't make them better than a trash tier spec for pvp overall.

I wasn't good when I drowned that mage.... I was -=lucky=- my fears even landed (gogo suppression talent helping out on that one) and that I apparently never failed one of the resist checks for it to break early (fear had an invisible "dot tick" that basically rolled the dice again to see if fear would break early.... taking damage increased the chance of this occurring)... 99x out of 100 that mage should have been laughing at my corpse, I just happened to only encounter him on that one 100th time

skip to 20:19

I'M not saying they werent bad, but their gear should compensate for their lack of skill at least somewhat
and hell everyone was bad in vanilla

[Zigrifid]

classic wow is classic wow ! we have to deal with that, which means unviable specs !

[Drosul]

I killed my first 60 (a mage) as a lvl 46 warlock via fear spamming him until he drowned in that lake in NE STV while trying to gank me. Freak occurrences can happen.

In your specific example, the mage died because they where super bad, apparently not knowing how to rank 1 frost bolt, and sitting within purge/shock range or blowing their load into a grounding totem. Also I'd wager that the shaman hit the RNG lottery.... because he had to have first hit his target (not easy with a 4 level disadvantage), and likely procced WF and/or crit multiple times.

Once again, being lucky =/= being good. Enhance in pvp could get lucky, but that still doesn't make them better than a trash tier spec for pvp overall.

I wasn't good when I drowned that mage.... I was -=lucky=- my fears even landed (gogo suppression talent helping out on that one) and that I apparently never failed one of the resist checks for it to break early (fear had an invisible "dot tick" that basically rolled the dice again to see if fear would break early.... taking damage increased the chance of this occurring)... 99x out of 100 that mage should have been laughing at my corpse, I just happened to only encounter him on that one 100th time

skip to 20:19

I'M not saying they werent bad, but their gear should compensate for their lack of skill at least somewhat
and hell everyone was bad in vanilla

The mage at 20:19 wasn't just bad, he was a dumpster fire of terrible... hard casting into grounding, using his main spell school when he knows Earthshock is up, standing in range of earthshock and purge, CSing hearthstone instead of heals, and never fake casting.

Watch more recent Pserver mage videos and you'll see things like arcane missiles getting a lot of usage rotationally because they want damage out that they know the opponent can't or won't want to interrupt.... as well as tons of fake casting/better positioning in general (lots of kiting out frost novas).

[Deleted]

[...] the only reasonable way to release classic is to do it like it was coz thats what people want.

"What people want" is a billion different, often contradictory things. And before you go "what the TRUE fans, who waited for this FOR YEARS want", while risking to repeat myself: Blizzard is making a product, they're not making Classic as a favour to the same people who pirate their servers and spend every moment on the forums telling them how awful live WoW is and how they should hire the Nostalrius crew to make the game and how everyone who disagrees should be banned from the forum.