Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[InfiniteCharger]

The lore and story of GoT is irrelevant in a conversation about why one fantasy setting says black people are okay, but another one has everyone up in arms.
I really don't care how you want to justify it by going into the details of a story I'm disinterested in.

Its not real, it's all in your head that LoTR elves have to be white.

You contradict yourself, like you said it is not real and therefore it does not have to reflect reality in any specific way.
The point here is whether or not show like this need to change the source material in order to inject something that was not there previously.
It is not a simple discussion, but in the case of Lord of the Rings, the issue is that the author intended his work to stay as he wrote it.
And having a whole bunch of studios making changes to it and reinterpreting it and rebooting it is just not what he wanted.
Diversity here is just the tip of the iceberg in terms of trying to justify changes to his work and going against his wishes.
It is basically trying to turn this into an argument of morality which is purely pathetic and silly.

If the work is immoral or problematic then don't adapt it. Adapt something that is more fitting those 'moral' standards.
But that doesn't work when this is one of the best selling books of all time and a huge mega corporation wants to cash in on it.
They don't care about what he wrote. They only care about the name and being able to gain profits on using the name no matter if it is garbage or not.

Also George RR Martin is alive and helping make HOD while Tolkien is dead. Both HOD and ROP are supposed to be direct prequels to books and other previous adaptations. One is a literal canon prequel and the other is not.

[Aphrel]

There are but there were not inserted for the sake of diversity. That's the difference.

They are thou. 100%. They are just inserted in a better way, giving the entire family that ethnicity and a location they originate from that aren't westeros explaines it.

In the books that family is white as snow thou... so its 100% balckwashing, just better done backwashing than what rings of power.

The rings of power shouldve just made all those hobbits black and mentioned they migrated from the south for X reason. problem solved.

edit: Lol this was infracted?! what kind of mods do we have here?

[Specialka]

They are thou. 100%. They are just inserted in a better way, giving the entire family that ethnicity and a location they originate from that aren't westeros explaines it.

In the books that family is white as snow thou... so its 100% balckwashing, just better done backwashing than what rings of power.

The rings of power shouldve just made all those hobbits black and mentioned they migrated from the south for X reason. problem solved.

Let's say, that in GoT, they put decent effort in it, while they did not in RoP.

[Twdft]

Reducing the criticism of Rings of Power to "you don't like dark skinned people" is the most disingenuous train of thought you could employ. But here you are doing it anyway.

If the criticism of Ring of Power that gets pushed back in that way were actually about the show itself you might have a point. But the criticism is "bla bla it is based on northern european bla bla it's illogical to have black dudes in the show". This shit is racist, plain and simple. These fuckers don't critique anything Arondir or Disa say or do in the show, they only point out the color of their skin. Shouldn't be surprised if they get push back like "you don't like dark skinned people".

[Orby]

Finished the second episode last night and I have to say I really enjoy the show. I think the acting is good, the scenery is gorgeous (Loved seeing the Dwarf place, was like looking at what Ironforge could be) and I find all the stories really interesting so far and there were a couple I initially didn't think I would.

I am personally a sucker for set design, (as someone who once did some work on sets). and the set design on this show is on par with the Jackson movies there a lot of homeliness, the Half foot hovels/homes are so cosy. and everything looks lived in. Even the set, while the clothing and armour looks sketchy at times they have made an attempt to make them look worn, from the test footage a lot of the clothes looked too clean, in the show that wasnt the case, which I am relieved to see.

[Flurryfang]

But it's not a real world? It is a fantasy world. Why would there need to be regional distinction between people with different skin colors? Just because it works that way on Earth, doesn't mean it has to in a magical fantasy setting.

Well, then they would need to explain it or atleast make a note of it, because the viewer will.

Its like if you have a society where half the people are tall and half the people are very short (Dwarf like stature). If you don't mention it and explain it, there will always be this "why?" in peoples mind. Its never a good idea to have things like that be unresolved.

Besides, saying something is fantasy, is not an excuse to have elements in a world, that lacks sense. Fantasy brings interesting changes to what makes sense, but good fantasy still holds true to their own code of logic.

[Dhrizzle]

Well, then they would need to explain it or atleast make a note of it, because the viewer will.

Its like if you have a society where half the people are tall and half the people are very short (Dwarf like stature). If you don't mention it and explain it, there will always be this "why?" in peoples mind. Its never a good idea to have things like that be unresolved.

Besides, saying something is fantasy, is not an excuse to have elements in a world, that lacks sense. Fantasy brings interesting changes to what makes sense, but good fantasy still holds true to their own code of logic.

Well some of the elves have fair hair and some have dark hair and at least one has red hair but I don't see people raging about it being an unresolved issue

[Al Gorefiend]

Well, then they would need to explain it or atleast make a note of it, because the viewer will.

Its like if you have a society where half the people are tall and half the people are very short (Dwarf like stature). If you don't mention it and explain it, there will always be this "why?" in peoples mind. Its never a good idea to have things like that be unresolved.

Besides, saying something is fantasy, is not an excuse to have elements in a world, that lacks sense. Fantasy brings interesting changes to what makes sense, but good fantasy still holds true to their own code of logic.

They can just say elves have a recessive gene that causes black pigmented skin the same way humans develop albinism, red heads and vitiligo. Though let's be real here, people would just bitch Tolkien didn't write it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

They can just say elves have a recessive gene that causes black pigmented skin the same way humans develop albinism, red heads and vitiligo. Though let's be real here, people would just bitch Tolkien didn't write it.

You don’t even have to go the albinism route you can just say god made them black and due to the nature of elf immorality and slow breeding you would never see the black elfs bred out.

This way wouldn’t even conflict with any thing Tolkien wrote as he never locked down skin tone.

[Flurryfang]

They can just say elves have a recessive gene that causes black pigmented skin the same way humans develop albinism, red heads and vitiligo. Though let's be real here, people would just bitch Tolkien didn't write it.

And that would be an interesting point, if they brought it up. That the race is already a bowl of different genes, that decide skin tone and that they are from a land already mixed.

But they haven't done that, so something is lacking. Saying "They can it explain it if they wanted" is not a good defense since they did not.

And Tolkien did not write a lot of things, especially about the age outside of the 3rd age. Sure people will be mad and they can be argued against, but not securing the logic of your fantasy world, does not help and is hard to defend.

[OwenBurton]

Proving he's actually still around, and a problem, presumably.

This is not exactly an uncommon trope - the zealous yet underequipped avenger, chasing their prey across the land. Stopping to think about how this will actually play out is not part of the deal, usually.

Though one might posit that given the scarcity of any evidence of activity, they could have expected Sauron to be weakened and isolated, hiding alone somewhere; in which case Galadriel might well have considered herself a worthy match for such an opponent. Or, alternatively, her goal might have been simply to prove that Sauron is still a threat, whereupon she could go to Gil-galad and make a case for a full-scale military assault.

It does make sense, in a way. You don't go searching for an elusive enemy with an entire army. You do that with a small, mobile scouting party. That doesn't mean it's what you use to attack eventually - finding your quarry merely comes first.

With all due respect, that still would not make much sense, if you carefully think about it.

Commander Galadriel and her 9-10 elves were searching for Sauron for (I think) several years alone and unaided, they had finally reached the northern wastes of the Arctic.

If a young and relatively inexperienced Galadriel (no Ring, no Phial, no Celeborn, no White Council, no other non-elf and Wizard allies) with no powers could defeat Sauron, then the average young Elf would be roughly equal to a powerful Maia in this new Tolkien universe.

Say Galadriel and her elves found Sauron, somehow fought him to a standstill or otherwise survived / escaped. Then what? They would spend several more months returning to the other Elves, and then when they finally returned and persuaded the Elf-lords to believe their story and act, no easy feat in itself, Gil-galad would then spend several more months preparing an army.

And then they would spend ANOTHER several months going to the Arctic with that army, hoping against hope that Sauron and all his minions patiently stayed put wherever they were and didn't simply seek out a new hiding place, and that they might possibly win against him despite giving him lots of time to prepare his own forces? Either way, it seems like a really fragile, confusing and short-sighted plan with much room for failure and disaster.

[enigma77]

But it's not a real world? It is a fantasy world. Why would there need to be regional distinction between people with different skin colors? Just because it works that way on Earth, doesn't mean it has to in a magical fantasy setting.

A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, far left, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise, clashing with both the source material and common sense.

You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.

[RevolverLynx]

A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise.

You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.

I mean it could be believable, it could be a subject that nobody dares to talk about in the lotr series.

[eschatological]

This thread has been warned multiple times, including in the OP, to stop discussing social agendas and perceptions of tokenism. Infractions have been handed out. Further derailing will lead to further infractions.

[BigToast]

A good story is believable. Believable means respecting real world facts and circumstances whenever possible.

A group of people living in the same area, having ethnic diversity without any explanation is not believable. If they had shown a different group of dwarves, who happens to have dark skin as a distinct trait, being a distinct group it would have been believable. Instead it is what it is, far left, woke politics randomly inserted into a fantasy franchise, clashing with both the source material and common sense.

You people try very hard to not grasp a simple concept like this, because you're thoroughly indoctrinated by your far-left, woke masters.

Yea, that scene when Arondir talked about defunding the police seemed a bit out of place. Or when Disa started chanting "Black Dwarves Matter!!" I don't remember that from the LOTR... You people that get triggered when black people and women appear in fiction are truly pathetic. It must be a sad existence to live with such hate in your hearts.

[cface]

Can we not move on from this shit, like c'mon...

almost 200 pages, and almost 4000 replies. Both sides are like dumb and dumber, sitting here for hours debating nonsense to feed their addiction of "being right". The internet truly is a mental asylum giving them strong voice. Nobody talks like this irl, unless he wanna be ignored. But here, they tend to find each other.

[PACOX]

I hope Amazon creates a LOTR streaming universe and shows the way Disney spams MCU shows. For no real reason but to antagonize the Tolkien fundamentalists

[Orby]

I hope Amazon creates a LOTR streaming universe and shows the way Disney spams MCU shows. For no real reason but to antagonize the Tolkien fundamentalists

as much as I like RoP, please no... no more frikkin universes, those are the reasons I no longer watch Star Wars and MCU.

[everydaygamer]

As someone who never liked the movies, I'm enjoying the show so far. It's not amazing but I'm willing to see where it goes.

[hulkgor]

How you dudes and dudettes can go hundreds of pages about the same, mostly irrelevant issue, is actually baffling.

More power to you, i guess.

As for the show, so far it's been fun. Some issues, but overall an enjoyable experience, looking forward to the rest.