1. #4161
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    You contradict your own statement. Oh I am in full understanding of what this conversation is about. Hatred. It doesn't matter if a statement you make is proven to not carry over to another situation because you don't really care. You say anything you can think of to justify your hatred then move on to the next thing including things like "You can't understand". You are using basic and text book arguments.
    Mmm, you totally understand the conversation, then you prove you don't by using a single word that I've not displayed at all throughout this entire conversation.

    Telling you that you missed my point doesn't equate to hatred. Sorry if you get that impression, but that's not what hatred is.

    I mean, could you even tell me what I'm exactly hating here? Because my criticism isn't coming from any place of hate, it's to illustrate that the show could be improved if it had merely taken the time to establish some very basic scenes to show her company supporting her throughout her journey.

  2. #4162
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post

    For anyone that wants to defend it by saying she needs an arc to be a good leader, I repeat SHE IS THE COMMANDER OF THE NORTHERN ARMIES ALREADY (AS WELL AS BEING THOUSANDS OF YEARS OLD), you can't say she is one of the highest ranking military leaders and yet have her display 0 abilities to lead or care in the slightest for her troops.
    No clue if her being a commander of army id suppose to be about the war against Morgoth or what but it wouldn’t be hard to just say she was/is a great leader but her obsession leads to her not acting how she should as she’s not thinking rationally.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  3. #4163
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    That is not a contradiction of his, its a contradiction of the show itself, contradicting established canon of Galadriel, changing for the show, and yet still contradicting with what the show shows. If you had a minimal of criticism thinking you would know and not blame on others "hate"
    So I can't blame people that are hating for silly reasons? Lmao. If she is supposed to be some awesome commander she would also be expected to be more powerful then her troops, yes? Yet when that is displayed those with minimal thought (your own words) are required to hate on that while at the same time hating that she isn't shown to be super awesome?

    It also ignores how even the best commander can get blinded at times. Her abilities as a commander are shown when she agrees with the advice she is given by her own company and doesn't force them, and herself, to go on. There are plenty of things to criticize about the show that you don't need to defend and rally to show low effort remarks.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  4. #4164
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Jesus, that is so bad that i can definitely see the writers doing this way and thinking they are so clever, like those nonsense dialogues that make the star wars prequels look amazing.
    Have you never see a metaphor play out on a movie before or something?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  5. #4165
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    No clue if her being a commander of army id suppose to be about the war against Morgoth or what but it wouldn’t be hard to just say she was/is a great leader but her obsession leads to her not acting how she should as she’s not thinking rationally.
    Again this goes back to show don't tell. We are told she is the commander of the northern armies, but by no actions in the show does she display her capabilities as a commander, she basically treats her troops like disposable fodder and doesn't care for them. That is a problem. If they had shown her caring/getting support/supporting them, people would have a lot less problems with this part of the first 2 episodes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  6. #4166
    The Insane rhorle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bledgor View Post
    Troops that barely kept up climbing by helping/supporting each other
    Tell me you have never done group activites in real life without telling me you have never done them. People don't 100% work in-sync with the same level of ability and effort. We know from the show that they are losing their zeal for the task but still follow. We know that their commander has unending zeal which can often be a great motivator. The issue is not the writers but the people, like yourself, that use any reason to hate even if those reasons do not make sense or contradict other comments they make.

    It is all about gas lighting until you can think of something else to attack. They also help her defeat the ice troll. Scroll back a few to the other blind person that tried to argue they didn't. They distracted it and where "fighting" it. One helped her do a surprise jump attack when it was focused on stomping another elf. Also your superman example is hilarious considering Gandalf is essentially a "superman" in the lore yet uses armies to fight for him. Even Sauron used armies and he had the one ring. I don't think you quite understand Lord of the Rings as much as you think.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Telling you that you missed my point doesn't equate to hatred. Sorry if you get that impression, but that's not what hatred is.
    The arguments you keep making are through the lens of hatred. Of course you telling me I'm missing your point isn't hatred. Don't move the goal posts simply because you know I'm right about your objections to Galadrial. Lmao. It is always strange when people try to deny their dislike for something.
    "Man is his own star. His acts are his angels, good or ill, While his fatal shadows walk silently beside him."-Rhyme of the Primeval Paradine AFC 54
    You know a community is bad when moderators lock a thread because "...this isnt the place to talk about it either seeing as it will get trolled..."

  7. #4167
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Your the only one who seems to be taking it literally.
    You explained it to be a literal metaphor just above.

    WHat is your point if you weren't saying the show was making that metaphor literal? I'm literally saying that scene was unnecessary, and you're arguing that it was because it made the metaphor literal, now you're telling me I'm the only one taking it literally?

    Not quite sure what your argument actually is, really.

    The idea is that she’s on the right side in the light of the sky (chasing Sauron) but her resolve is shaken and she starts heading towards the reflected light of the water (going home) and when she actually gets to the gate of the elvish home land (touch’s the water) she realizes that it’s not the actual light of the sky and turns back.

    Her brother and the greater theme of the episode wasn’t actually telling her to jump off of boats.
    See, that's the thing about the ambiguity of the statements and how 'right' and 'wrong' are perceived.

    You say that her choice to chase Sauron is right. Well, Biomega argued continuously that her need to chase Sauron is actually the wrong path, and one that takes her into darkness, and it wouldn't be for millenia (in the larger Tolkien mythology) until she finds her way to the light.

    So there isn't really any one way to interpret the scene. I respect your take on the scene, but as I said, I don't consider it necessary or purposeful considering I think they could have done it in other ways. I actually think that scene was quite pointless, and only made her seem more irrational than she really needed to be. I mean, a more rational means of 'turning back' would be to actually arrive in Valinor, make her decision before she steps foot off the ship, and literally commandeer it back to the Middle Earth after the other Elves stepped off. It wouldn't be as senseless as literally jumping ship and swimming while the ship disappears and no other Elf seemed to give a fuck that someone went overboard.

    I'm not asking for these points to be explained or defended. I'm not asking anyone to 'make sense of it' for me. I'm illustrating why I think they are counter-intuitive, and a product of bad writing.

  8. #4168
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    So I can't blame people that are hating for silly reasons? Lmao.
    "silly" reasons, whoa re you to say what is silly or not? you know what is silly? swordboard jumping

    That is something silly that we ignore/don't care, because they of course are jerking off Peter Jackson scenes, that he make Legolas do dumb stuff for funsies.

    What is atrocious is the bad writing scene that make everyone else dumb and weak, just to show she is stronger and wiser

    This
    Is
    Bad
    Wrting

    They don't have to force this, because Galadriel is stronger and wiser than your average elf, hell, she could prob scream at the troll and it would die, there is no necessity of that fight scene outside trying to, pathetically, raise her above others

    You are just coping and attacking the WRONG reasons, you are this close to say we dislike it because its a woman and not because its written with their ass.


    It also ignores how even the best commander can get blinded at times.
    At times? yeah, since her brother died? for centuries? HA

    Let alone how she have two other brothers, She don't care about it, guess they, just like her husband and daughter, are erased so she can have an affair with not-sauron, but oh my, blind hate to dislike this.
    Her abilities as a commander are shown when she agrees with the advice she is given by her own company and doesn't force them, and herself, to go on.
    And yet, she say she will continue alone if need be, then they, like they have mental problems, just throw their swords away, like there is no danger of another fucking troll appearing

    But what does it matter? if does appear, Galadriel can save then, cause they don't know how to use a sword anyway

    There are plenty of things to criticize about the show that you don't need to defend and rally to show low effort remarks.
    Those are just one of the plenty things to criticize about the show, the terrible bad writing and canon change for the sake of the plot

    Let alone how that part have 8 elves, then 7 then 9

    you can say "why being worked about something so silly and small"? it just show how little effort or care they are putting in this garbage outside CGI and music

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Have you never see a metaphor play out on a movie before or something?
    Usually metaphors in those movies are good/well written or its not literal, cause you know, would stop being a metaphor.
    Last edited by Syegfryed; 2022-09-08 at 07:34 PM.

  9. #4169
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    The arguments you keep making are through the lens of hatred. Of course you telling me I'm missing your point isn't hatred. Don't move the goal posts simply because you know I'm right about your objections to Galadrial. Lmao. It is always strange when people try to deny their dislike for something.
    If you're the one making these claims then you need to bring the proof of it.

    If you're telling me that I'm making statements out of hatred and I debunk your statement thoroughly by literally explaining that my criticisms are aimed at illustrating how the scene could be improved, then I'm not sure what else there is to say here.

    I'm not interested in a bad faith argument with you if you're merely going to assume that I'm hating on the show or characters for no reason that you can actually explain.

    I don't even know where you get the impression that I hate Galadriel. My entire point is that I don't find her arc making any sense, and thus it makes her actions counter-intuitive to the story that the show aimed to tell. And I'm making these criticisms to make the point that I think that Galadriel's story could be told in a much better way if they did it differently.

    Not sure how this equates to denying a hatred for her, when the focus of my criticisms aren't even on her but on the lack of establishing the necessity of her party and hammering down a reason why she went back with them to Lindon instead of continuing her hunt for Sauron on her own, which she had already planned to do.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 08:08 PM.

  10. #4170
    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    Tell me you have never done group activites in real life without telling me you have never done them. People don't 100% work in-sync with the same level of ability and effort. We know from the show that they are losing their zeal for the task but still follow. We know that their commander has unending zeal which can often be a great motivator. The issue is not the writers but the people, like yourself, that use any reason to hate even if those reasons do not make sense or contradict other comments they make.
    Tell me you have literally not read or understood what I wrote without admitting it. You proved my point, Galadriel doesn't need them, they do need each other and Galadriel. Thank you for admitting we are right, took you a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by rhorle View Post
    It is all about gas lighting until you can think of something else to attack. They also help her defeat the ice troll. Scroll back a few to the other blind person that tried to argue they didn't. They distracted it and where "fighting" it. One helped her do a surprise jump attack when it was focused on stomping another elf. Also your superman example is hilarious considering Gandalf is essentially a "superman" in the lore yet uses armies to fight for him. Even Sauron used armies and he had the one ring. I don't think you quite understand Lord of the Rings as much as you think.
    Mate you are the only literally gas lighting saying we are blinded by hate when we have factually reasons to be upset about the show, and you can't disprove any of our points so you result to calling us blind haters because racists doesn't work here. When the fuck did they help her defeat the ice troll? I guess you can say they helped exhaust the troll a little bit by letting it beat the shit out of them, and the sword fling guy helped Galadriel jump like 3 feet higher by using sword Fu (FUCKING LOL). The didn't distract shit, because the moment she went in, they didn't do anything, they stood around watching as Galadriel defeated it. None of them went forth and poked it so Galadriel could get a cut in, they were fighting it BEFORE she made a move (and by fighting I mean literally just getting the shit kicked out of them, none of them landed a blow).

    The only help as you said is one giving her a boost on a jump, hardly fucking helping, and if she can so easily dodge and slice in when she gets in close, it is completely useless boost.

    ...She isn't superman, no where any any lore ever wrote is she one of the most amazing warriors that can 1v1 anything, please I beg of you find where Tolkien wrote this. Powerful yes, but power doesn't mean she is a fierce/amazing warrior, she is powerful because she is super knowledgeable, she is very wise, and she is a capable commander. What part was shown here? I guess you could argue her bullshit about the cold and evil and the sigil shows knowledge but other than that nothing is shown. Like literally you find the stupidest shit to make a wrong point about mate, yes Sauron actually fought with an army that did things(they defeated mans armies numerous times and pushed man to the brink), and as soon as he got separated at the battle of the last alliance he was taken down. Galadriel at no point has been shown to need anything, she literally does it all (including swimming oceans!), you HAVE TO SHOWN THINGS, and they are only showing Galadriel as being better at everything and not needing people. If you wanted to compare it to Sauron you should have made the Troll actually threaten to harm Galadriel before one of the elven troops helps/protects her, and she finishes it (which would coincidentally help the arc people want for her to grow into a good commander, have her be a bit reckless and someone else pays for it).

    Again it is so fucking easy to show her during the Troll battle giving orders/telling her troops formations and having them actually strike the troll to distract it (which you know, even you claimed they were doing though they actually didn't in what we got), before allowing her to get the final blow in. None of that is shown though, she just goes in 1v1 and takes down the Troll in 8 seconds roughly?
    Last edited by bledgor; 2022-09-08 at 07:34 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  11. #4171
    You know someone's lost a debate when they're only argument is "You're a hater!".

  12. #4172
    Quote Originally Posted by Myradin View Post
    You know someone's lost a debate when they're only argument is "You're a hater!".
    HOD will overshadow lotr series in the dust.

  13. #4173
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    You explained it to be a literal metaphor just above.

    WHat is your point if you weren't saying the show was making that metaphor literal? I'm literally saying that scene was unnecessary, and you're arguing that it was because it made the metaphor literal, now you're telling me I'm the only one taking it literally?

    Not quite sure what your argument actually is, really.
    Nope, never said the scene was Necessary nor does my above explanation make it literal as the gate to there homeland is the "water" not the actual sea.

    so again it's just you taking it literally.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  14. #4174
    Quote Originally Posted by ArminVanburkek View Post
    HOD will overshadow lotr series in the dust.
    Sadly all signs point to you being right, though I guess they could still pull a GoT season 8 before the season is over for HOD, and I guess it is possible for Rings to turn it around, but from all the rumors I have heard they have no chance in this season to turn the show around.
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarim View Post
    It's a strange and illogical world where not wanting your 10 year old daughter looking at female-identifying pre-op penises at the YMCA could feasibly be considered transphobic.

  15. #4175
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    Nope, never said the scene was Necessary so again it's just you taking it literally.
    Then we're both in agreement. We both don't consider the scene was necessary.

  16. #4176
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    Usually metaphors in those movies are good/well written or its not literal, cause you know, would stop being a metaphor.
    ah so your in the same boat as Triceron thinking that her jumping into the sea was making the metaphor literal aren't you?
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  17. #4177
    The Insane Syegfryed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    ah so your in the same boat as Triceron thinking that her jumping into the sea was making the metaphor literal aren't you?
    She literally drop in the ocean, like the rock in the water

    its an awful metaphor, even if you try to make sense of it.

  18. #4178
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Triceron View Post
    Then we're both in agreement. We both don't consider the scene was necessary.
    I still don't think you Grasp the actual theme/metaphor but sure We agree the boat jump isn't necessary.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

  19. #4179
    Quote Originally Posted by Lorgar Aurelian View Post
    I still don't think you Grasp the actual theme/metaphor but sure We agree the boat jump isn't necessary.
    As I said, the metaphor could be outlined in a different way, in a different setting, and still ring true for the episode.

    My replies are focused on you having said "So yes they could have her go her hunt down Sauron alone at the start of the episode but that would miss the whole theme of the episode."

    There is no reason to assume a story of her hunting Sauron alone would have to miss the whole theme of the episode at all.
    Last edited by Triceron; 2022-09-08 at 08:03 PM.

  20. #4180
    The Unstoppable Force Lorgar Aurelian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    She literally drop in the ocean, like the rock in the water

    its an awful metaphor, even if you try to make sense of it.
    The rocks in the Metaphor would be the elf's who stay on the boat and go home as they are suppose to stay there for ever "seeing only downwards"(going home) because the darkness is "vast and irresistible". while Galadriel Is the ship Feeling the call of the dark(going home) But "her gaze is not downwards but up Fixed upon the light that guides her" being her quest for Sauron.

    She had lost her way because "its hard to say which way is up and which way is down" until she touches the darkness which was the gate to there homeland.
    All I ever wanted was the truth. Remember those words as you read the ones that follow. I never set out to topple my father's kingdom of lies from a sense of misplaced pride. I never wanted to bleed the species to its marrow, reaving half the galaxy clean of human life in this bitter crusade. I never desired any of this, though I know the reasons for which it must be done. But all I ever wanted was the truth.

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