Lord of the Rings TV Series Purchased by Amazon

[BigToast]

LOTR is about a traditional, simplistic world view that is also very kindhearted with a basic good vs. evil narrative. Turning it into a story about the struggles of a single mother in this fantasy world, or about how a woman can fight just as well as a man, just doesn’t fit

Tell that to Eowyn.

[Triceron]

Nah sorry that's such bullshit and you know it. It's not an original show, it's a LOTR show banking specifically on Tolkien's work, that's the whole reason it has any publicity. The world he created and many characters with clear cut lore and origins. Adding your "new and exciting characters" is not an argument you seem to think it is, it only makes it worse, it's further disrespecting the work.

Ah, you meant as in a show that isn't tied to other works. Understandable then

[Toppy]

I really wonder why nobody complained about Éowyn even though the fandom is apparently full of "incels"? How did Tolkien and Peter Jackson get away with it?

It reminds me of the Star Wars thing. How hating Rey marked you as misogynist just because you dont like Rey. Doesnt matter that there are multiple beloved female characters in Star Wars, both jedi and not.

Its just that Rey was shit.

[Sluvs]

It reminds me of the Star Wars thing. How hating Rey marked you as misogynist just because you dont like Rey. Doesnt matter that there are multiple beloved female characters in Star Wars, both jedi and not.

Its just that Rey was shit.

I don't know what you are talking about since people literally still complain about that. Even if it is just a little. There is also the obvious thing that by the third movie LOTR had already proved itself to be a masterpiece of a trilogy and the fact that it was not in any trailer. TBH I don't think both situations are comparable.

[Toppy]

I don't know what you are talking about since people literally still complain about that. Even if it is just a little. There is also the obvious thing that by the third movie LOTR had already proved itself to be a masterpiece of a trilogy and the fact that it was not in any trailer. TBH I don't think both situations are comparable.

Thats not what I meant. The idea was that its dumb to call someone an incel just because they dislike a female character. If the person were an incel their hatred would be spread out; it wouldnt be that they just hate Rey they'd hate all the females.

Its not just that they hate, say, the Elf woman in Hobbit, they would hate Eowyn too 'casue grrrr ladies.

[Sluvs]

Thats not what I meant. The idea was that its dumb to call someone an incel just because they dislike a female character. If the person were an incel their hatred would be spread out; it wouldnt be that they just hate Rey they'd hate all the females.

Its not just that they hate, say, the Elf woman in Hobbit, they would hate Eowyn too 'casue grrrr ladies.

Yeah, I get that. But let's face it the amount of vitriol and hatred that this series is taking is beyond justification.

Also, the Eowyn thing still angers a small amount of the people in the fandom. To be 100% honest with you I just think it is a shame that the entire fandom is just being so negative about this.

[Xath]

Listen, I know that you think you are keeping the sanctity of the text by arguing this but in the end the only thing you are truly arguing for is the lack of representation for black people. You might think you are in a high horse, but it all boils down to: I don't want black elves. Which you have to agree, even in this case, is silly.

And while I can see where you coming from, you are currently trying to say that Tolkien would have hated this. While you might be right, you also might be very wrong. All of Tolkien talking points about culture in a broader sense, we might extrapolate what he would think but there was no discussion of representation in his time.

Instead of trying to puppeteer the dead to make a point, we should probably take the series for what it is: an adaptation. Changes happen, it is impossible to be 100% faithful to the material. E.G.: the lack the battle of the shire in the movies was heartbreaking for me. I think It could be an awesome way to end the movie, and it is WAY more plot relevant than black elves existing.

If I was an author, I would be WAY more pissed if they changed the plot, than if they included a black character where there was none.

People are posting quotes and whatnot, believing that they are making a grand stand. But, IMHO, they are just against black elves and black dwarves. And that seems like a crappy point to me.

At this point, the series is bound to be underwhelming, no matter how good or bad it is. The hype so gigantic, the outrage so enormous... The jury is already out. Which I think it is a shame.

If people could look past the lack of Tom Bombadil, the lack of the battle of the shire and the inumerous inconsistencies of the hobbit, surely they could look past a black elf. It is just a shame that they choose not to do it.

The series should be judged by itself, instead it is being judged based on nothing but casting.

This generational war is tiresome and pointless.

No I don't want random sprinkling of races. If you want to make a tribe of elves that live in an area that it makes sense for them to have darker skin that's fine in fact that's great. That's expanding on the world. However they still shouldn't have buzz cuts. Electric Razors aren't a thing in Tolkienland so that fade has gotta go but long haired tribe of elves that are black and helping the men of the east resist Sauron would be awesome. Expand on the previously established concepts don't tokenize them.

[Sluvs]

No I don't want random sprinkling of races. If you want to make a tribe of elves that live in an area that it makes sense for them to have darker skin that's fine in fact that's great. That's expanding on the world. However they still shouldn't have buzz cuts. Electric Razors aren't a thing in Tolkienland so that fade has gotta go but long haired tribe of elves that are black and helping the men of the east resist Sauron would be awesome. Expand on the previously established concepts don't tokenize them.

You do realize that it is possible to have a buzzcut without actually using eletric razors right? That being said. I 100% agree with you that using it as a world building component would be INFINITELY better.

But it does not bother me as it is though.

[Syegfryed]

Yeah, I get that. But let's face it the amount of vitriol and hatred that this series is taking is beyond justification.

There is enough justification for the hate, though. Of course there is people who can't see a black or female actor and got angry, but there is a difference in being angry about someone being black or being angry about they changing things for token as a way for shielding the show from critics..

Some people do like things being close to faithful as possible, that is understandable, not the end of the world if not, cause even Lotr movies changed a lot, but if you are going to change, do it good. None of the elves look like elves, their characterization/make up is bad, and its not even the buzzcut thing, the dwarf lady by example not having a beard is a big problem

They(it seems, seeing by the trailer) didn't even bother to call that many black actors anyway, just one standing out, to me, becomes totally out of place, when it should be organic, if it was their idea of adaptation, to mimic the current world, i don't know where people live that everyone is pale white and you have one random black person.

[Xath]

Yeah, I get that. But let's face it the amount of vitriol and hatred that this series is taking is beyond justification.

Also, the Eowyn thing still angers a small amount of the people in the fandom. To be 100% honest with you I just think it is a shame that the entire fandom is just being so negative about this.

It's largely getting that vitriol because Amazon blew any good will they had with fans of fantasy after they stomped all over wheel of time.

[Syegfryed]

No I don't want random sprinkling of races. If you want to make a tribe of elves that live in an area that it makes sense for them to have darker skin that's fine in fact that's great. That's expanding on the world.

That is what we were talking before, how it would work much better if there is different tribes of elves and dwarves with different predominant characteristics, it feels real and organic.

hell, i could even see, some elves as asian because the hair and pretty features, i remember wow movie did that and it was cool.

[Sluvs]

It's largely getting that vitriol because Amazon blew any good will they had with fans of fantasy after they stomped all over wheel of time.

I don't know, that sounds pretty unlikely to me. Wheel of time flew below the radar for many people.

But I'm not gonna stand here and defend a multi BILLION dollar company either. I just think people are hating this series based on very little and have already decided not to watch it.

[Toppy]

I don't know, that sounds pretty unlikely to me. Wheel of time flew below the radar for many people.

But I'm not gonna stand here and defend a multi BILLION dollar company either. I just think people are hating this series based on very little and have already decided not to watch it.

I still intend to watch it, I just have low expectations. Though if it doesnt hook me after 2 or so episodes I'll likely just stop. Nothing I've seen or heard from those working on it gives me hope. I've seen no indication that they actually care much about the source material: I just expect some name drops they pulled off of the lotr wiki.

[loras]

Honestly so far the memes about the series are more promising than what i've seen of the series itself.
It's kinda funny how a claim to incorporate more perspectives and such just showcases how narrow the perspective of the ones making that claim are. I think it's that repeated mind boggling hypocrisy that sets off fans so much.
Doesn't help that it's often accompanied by dramatic degradations of quality, but that's yet too early to call in this case.

In short: I will be watching the watchers, rather than the show, unless evidence points to actual quality being present of course.

[Coniferous]

Tell that to Eowyn.

Tolkien never made Eowyn’s fighting skills comparable to the best men, similar to how he didn’t turn the hobbits into fantastic swordsmen. He noted how Eowyn was very small for a soldier (which is why her horse could handle her and Merry).

In the end she doesn’t stay a soldier either, she becomes a healer, while all the men continue fighting. She’s the exception that proves the rule. So no, there’s no basis for a female commanding an army and leading the fight into battles in LotR. There were a few strong female characters like Galadriel, Melian, and Luthien, but they generally used magic.

- - - Updated - - -

I don't know, that sounds pretty unlikely to me. Wheel of time flew below the radar for many people.

But I'm not gonna stand here and defend a multi BILLION dollar company either. I just think people are hating this series based on very little and have already decided not to watch it.

Many of the biggest fans of LotR are also WoT fans. I’m absolutely jaded by seeing how that series went, from literally the first monologue which was jarringly discordant from the source material and set up a conflict between good women and bad men.

I’m hoping they’re seeing the backlash now and recutting some of the most obvious wokeness out of the series.

[BigToast]

Tolkien never made Eowyn’s fighting skills comparable to the best men, similar to how he didn’t turn the hobbits into fantastic swordsmen. He noted how Eowyn was very small for a soldier (which is why her horse could handle her and Merry).

In the end she doesn’t stay a soldier either, she becomes a healer, while all the men continue fighting. She’s the exception that proves the rule. So no, there’s no basis for a female commanding an army and leading the fight into battles in LotR. There were a few strong female characters like Galadriel, Melian, and Luthien, but they generally used magic.

Eowyn disregarded the will of her father and went to war. She ended up slaying the Witch King. Sounds pretty Woke AF to me.

[Shadowferal]

Eowyn disregarded the will of her father and went to war. She ended up slaying the Witch King. Sounds pretty Woke AF to me.

Sounds like the book to me.

[Biomega]

Eowyn disregarded the will of her father and went to war. She ended up slaying the Witch King. Sounds pretty Woke AF to me.

And the WoT books are full of strong and powerful women, yet that apparently wasn't enough for the show writers and they had to crank the wokeness to 11, at the expense of everything else.

[BigToast]

Sounds like the book to me.

Exactly! Tolkien was the original Woke Monster. So why is he okay, but a black dwarf lady with no beard triggers a significant portion of the population?

[bledgor]

Exactly! Tolkien was the original Woke Monster. So why is he okay, but a black dwarf lady with no beard triggers a significant portion of the population?

because it wasn't in the book? Surprise people want adaptations that are as faithful as possible, and when you throw in shit that is CLEARLY not trying to be faithful, they get upset. Literally just about everything that has been shown goes against the books (from skin tones, to beardless dwarf, to short haired elves, to xena warrior princess), not to mention the shit tier cosplay elf ears.

Better question why are you okay with d tier adaptation and garbage cosplay just because someone in the show has dark skin?