So, uh... anyone defending Sylvanas anymore? (SPOILERS!!!)

[KrakHed]

Right, let's ignore the insurrection part as that is inconvenient to the narrative.

It's hardly even an insurrection, and an entirely non-threatening one for the most part. Anyone who reads the book will be shown that Genn cares more about the Forsaken than Sylvanas does, and that the motivation that Lilian Voss parrots is actually wrong for a good chunk of Forsaken.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

That's my point. The Alliance is so dull and unthreatening that it's not even fun to fight.

that's where you're wrong kiddo. Poll the Horde players about how much fun it was to nuke Theramore and burn Teldrassil.

They are the most boring antagonist faction in existence.

The worst the Alliance does is a harsh finger wagging, even after they are blown up.

So even if I dislike Anduin and the Alliance, I do so because they're boring. It's not hatred. It's disdain and apathy. I don't care about Humans and Night Elves. They haven't had fangs since Warcraft 3. Why the fuck should I act scared of these fucking losers?

I don't care about gnats when I swat them, but I do swat them.

I mean, what's the worse that can happen? Anduin wins a war that he didn't start, and invites me over to tea to discuss how much land he's surrendering to me?

he looks at you with big watery eyes and tells you about how bones hurt if you make him think mean things, so you be nice.

[Koraggar]

As if this sentiment wasn't always present regardless of who the writer was.

Once Christie is gone, whatever poor sap takes the job then will also be dismissed as a bad writer by the accomplished, objective writer material lurking on MMO-C...

I don't recall many people ragging on Stackpole, he did a good job with the Vol'jin book.

Same story with King and the Illidan novel. He was a clear Illidan fanboy but he was still respectful to the fans of the other characters in that book. He laid out the motivations of Maeiv and Akama and struck to what the fans of those characters like about them. That's something Golden clearly needs to learn from.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

Not for you, but I distinctly remember seeing the same points always being made regardless of the story and writer.

Also funny how one person found MoP to be nuanced and great storytelling, whilst someone else found it vapid and pointless...
Can't please every a-hole with an opinion, but I'd say they've done a great job with telling the story not just to lore nerds as of MoP and Legion.

They are doing a great job of offering raiding and shinies to people who play the game for something other than the story. Most people don't give a crap one way or another, but this is the lore forum not the general one.

[Queen of Hamsters]

But almost all other WoW books were written by Knaak. Who, you know, is Knaak.

And now Knaak is slowly gaining that nostalgia shimmer whilst Golden is the new scapegoat for objectively superior connoiseurs of game lore.
When current, the Arthas story was "predictable and boring and a cop-out". Now I see it hailed regularly as a pinnacle of writing. Pretty sure in some cases, from the same person...

[KrakHed]

that's where you're wrong kiddo. Poll the Horde players about how much fun it was to nuke Theramore and burn Teldrassil.

It was boring.

[sighy]

That's my point. The Alliance is so dull and unthreatening that it's not even fun to fight. They are the most boring antagonist faction in existence. So even if I dislike Anduin and the Alliance, I do so because they're boring. It's not hatred. It's disdain and apathy. I don't care about Humans and Night Elves. They haven't had fangs since Warcraft 3. Why the fuck should I act scared of these fucking losers?

I mean, what's the worse that can happen? Anduin wins a war that he didn't start, and invites me over to tea to discuss how much land he's surrendering to me?

Or maybe there is the profound idea of making aliance compelling to fight against. Instead of whining about Sylvanas being Sylvanas, because she is Sylvanas...

[Mehrunes]

I mean, what's the worse that can happen? Anduin wins a war that he didn't start, and invites me over to tea to discuss how much land he's surrendering to me?

But Alliance still attacked first in Silithus.

It's hardly even an insurrection, and an entirely non-threatening one for the most part. Anyone who reads the book will be shown that Genn cares more about the Forsaken than Sylvanas does, and that the motivation that Lilian Voss parrots is actually wrong for a good chunk of Forsaken.

Most insurrections start as non-threatening ones. And the books showed Sylvanas caring about the Forsaken in her earlier inner monologues. Her not caring about people she considers traitors is neither here nor there in regards to that.

[Jastall]

Because writing lacks consistency and golden is completely not troubled by that ?

I mean as you say, the entire scenario is absurd, because all horde leaders should be really unsettled by this. And they aren't. And with so many witnesses i can hardly believe they wouldn't learn about it.

The Horde should have been unsettled by and super wary of the Forsaken ages ago, since Cataclysm at the very latest. Their values are anathema to several Horde races and they clearly act like a bunch of psychopaths who will start tossing the blight at any problem more complicated than a locked door no matter what anyone says or what the consequences are.

Their actions being swept under the rug for narrative convenience is nothing new, and this is just another instance in a long series of the Forsaken in general, and Sylvanas in particular, not suffering consequences for their action.

[Mehrunes]

And now Knaak is slowly gaining that nostalgia shimmer whilst Golden is the new scapegoat for objectively superior connoiseurs of game lore.
When current, the Arthas story was "predictable and boring and a cop-out". Now I see it hailed regularly as a pinnacle of writing. Pretty sure in some cases, from the same person...

Literally where?

[KrakHed]

And now Knaak is slowly gaining that nostalgia shimmer whilst Golden is the new scapegoat for objectively superior connoiseurs of game lore.
When current, the Arthas story was "predictable and boring and a cop-out". Now I see it hailed regularly as a pinnacle of writing. Pretty sure in some cases, from the same person...

Golden had one good book, and a few that were passable. Probably depending on how many dumb game mechanics she shoves in, and what utter dreck Blizzard gives her to write. Knaak shoves his stupid Mary Sues into everything, but his worldbuilding is actually good. He doesn't borrow game mechanics for the most part.

But no. The true gem was Jeff Grubb.

[Blizzard Moneybot]

It was boring.

Sample size of 1, invalid.

Or maybe there is the profound idea of making aliance compelling to fight against. Instead of whining about Sylvanas being Sylvanas, because she is Sylvanas...

Like having Alleria kill Lorthemar and mortally wound Thalyssra whilst turning all voided out and trying to initiate a coup in Silvermoon (on behalf of the Alliance, whether sanctioned or not), they taint the Sunwell, but are rebuffed, forcing the Blood Elves to deal with void juice in the Sunwell, and a lot of lives lost, thus forcing Sylvanas to strike against Ironforge, launching a plague strike into the heart of Dun Morogh? That would be up your ally right? It'd be a reason to attack the Alliance not 'Those people keep living in their ancestral homelands and don't want us plundering it, in order to have peace, let's kill them all' followed by 'UH OH SPAGHETTI-OS IT DIDNT WORK'.

[KrakHed]

Or maybe there is the profound idea of making aliance compelling to fight against. Instead of whining about Sylvanas being Sylvanas, because she is Sylvanas...

Sylvanas can be Sylvanas, but she shouldn't be Warchief.

[sighy]

Golden had one good book, and a few that were passable. Probably depending on how many dumb game mechanics she shoves in, and what utter dreck Blizzard gives her to write. Knaak shoves his stupid Mary Sues into everything, but his worldbuilding is actually good. He doesn't borrow game mechanics for the most part.

But no. The true gem was Jeff Grubb.

Knaak doesn't give a flying turd about worldbuilding done before him tho

[Blizzard Moneybot]

But Alliance still attacked first in Silithus.

I was sent to scout the Horde. They aggro'd onto me, I just defended myself.

[HavokHeart]

What joy is there in this torment?

We are the Forsaken! We will slaughter ANYONE who stands before us.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Golden had one good book, and a few that were passable. Probably depending on how many dumb game mechanics she shoves in, and what utter dreck Blizzard gives her to write. Knaak shoves his stupid Mary Sues into everything, but his worldbuilding is actually good. He doesn't borrow game mechanics for the most part.

But no. The true gem was Jeff Grubb.

As I said, opinions all around, not some factual grasp on things no matter how much people like to pretend so.

At no point will they ever please everyone.

[KrakHed]

Knaak doesn't give a flying turd about worldbuilding done before him tho

Of course. He creates his own world, and his things get absorbed with varying degrees of success. And he wrote what was hands down the best Deathwing.

[The Stormbringer]

You accidentally skipped the part where Calia asked people to support her before Sylvanas attacked. Where indeed. Just like you completely accidentally avoided the topic of her being a pretender or how your previous reply addressed squat in what you replied to.

I already replied to that with someone else who explained how it actually went down. I still disagree that Calia is a pretender, she's the legitimate claimant of the throne of Lordaeron. The only thing that might be in question is whether or not one can consider Lordaeron a nation, and whether that matters or not if the people are still willing to accept her rule.

[Morally Grey Storm]

She gets people angry. Some people defend her because they want to defend their faction, and some people hate her because she's the true threat to their faction. Whether you're Horde or Alliance.

She seems to stir up quite a lot of strong emotions, unlike so many other of the characters.

I'd say that fact alone makes her interesting.

By that logic, Milo, JBP and Ben Shapiro are interesting, too.