Winds of Winter Delayed *Again*

[Coombs]

If you write a book to be famous and make money, why keep writing, a hard occupation, when you are as famous as you will ever be and as rich as you will ever be.

George is done. He will milk this shit for the rest of his few years and die without finishing the book.

[Erolian]

I have no idea who could finish the series though if the editor/widow allow it even. Nobody really does small witty conversations in the same way. People in the same genre like Erikson or Sanderson could probably get the scope right but the character interactions probably not.

I honestly would laugh though if hes been spending all of this time trying to finish both books though and just releases them together. It would actually surprise basically everyone

[Deleted]

I have no idea who could finish the series though if the editor/widow allow it even. Nobody really does small witty conversations in the same way. People in the same genre like Erikson or Sanderson could probably get the scope right but the character interactions probably not.

I honestly would laugh though if hes been spending all of this time trying to finish both books though and just releases them together. It would actually surprise basically everyone

Martin has gone on record saying that when he's gone, that's the end of it. It's not like Tolkein where his wish was that people continue to write stories in the world he created and his estate has basically said "Yeah that's never happening", Martin literally wants no one else to touch his world.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Martin has gone on record saying that when he's gone, that's the end of it. It's not like Tolkein where his wish was that people continue to write stories in the world he created and his estate has basically said "Yeah that's never happening", Martin literally wants no one else to touch his world.

Did Tolkien really want people to expand his world? If so shame they won’t let people his world seems like it has so much more to offer and the shadow of Mordor games seem to be the only thing that really expand it at all.

[Wondercrab]

As a novelist myself, this is kind of the problem with writing epic multi-volume works that you plan out years in advance. Having the motivation (not to mention the time) to continue on with the same story is something that's going to vary year by year in your life, and it's impossible to know how you're going to feel about your work two, five, or ten years down the line. I've hit the point with my current five-novel series where I want to set it aside and move on to something else, but thankfully there aren't enough loose ends and ongoing story threads that I need more than one additional book to wrap everything up. I always think it's wise to write a series that way, where you can potentially always conclude it within one more novel just so that you don't run the risk of burning yourself out and proctastinating what remains of your motivation into the dust. It seems pretty obvious at this point that GRRM isn't crazily passionate about finishing his series and would probably rather be focusing on other stuff, but he's committed now.

[Izalla]

I'm not too bothered. I think the story should have ended where it was originally meant to - shortly after the Lannister's secured their victory through the Red Wedding, I believe? I got into the setting based on the political intrigue. I never cared for any of the dragon or undead related stuff. I felt like it detracted from the story rather than added to it.

Is this your personal opinion or was this actually intended to be the end? I can't see in any universe where this was supposed to be the end when the first book opens with the undead and ends with the dragons =P And also the R+L=J thing has been sprinkled throughout since the very first book as well. The political intrigue, as interesting as it is and obviously it's fine if that's the only stuff you like, has always been intended to be the least important stuff as far as I understand, because in the end the undead are the greatest threat and everyone playing their "game of thrones" are just food for the zombies (figuratively) when they finally come. Kinda just highlights how pathetic it is for them to be plotting and planning and sabotaging and betraying when their doom is lurking in the north about to set upon them. Just look at how much the rest of the kingdoms scoff at the Night's Watch and the Wall and barely care about the Wall being manned. The political stuff being total bullshit in the end is like, the whole point =P

[Coombs]

Martin is never finishing the series. If it does get finished, it'll be someone else who does it.

- - - Updated - - -



Writing fast isn't the issue. It's editing that comes after writing. Most writers can belt out 10k words a day and if they go on a writing spree, you can easily do 100k words in around two weeks. How much scrutiny all that material will go under when it comes to editing is what really decides how long it'll take to publish.

This. 5-10k words a day only takes a few hours. The problem is most of those words are shit.

[Deleted]

Did Tolkien really want people to expand his world? If so shame they won’t let people his world seems like it has so much more to offer and the shadow of Mordor games seem to be the only thing that really expand it at all.

In one of his letters (combined together in The Letters of JRR Tolkein) he expresses a wish for his works to become a new mythology, and for him to write a few of the stories, but leave other stories untold for other authors to write.

Can't remember which letter it is off the top of my head though.

[Graeham]

Is this your personal opinion or was this actually intended to be the end? I can't see in any universe where this was supposed to be the end when the first book opens with the undead and ends with the dragons =P And also the R+L=J thing has been sprinkled throughout since the very first book as well. The political intrigue, as interesting as it is and obviously it's fine if that's the only stuff you like, has always been intended to be the least important stuff as far as I understand, because in the end the undead are the greatest threat and everyone playing their "game of thrones" are just food for the zombies (figuratively) when they finally come. Kinda just highlights how pathetic it is for them to be plotting and planning and sabotaging and betraying when their doom is lurking in the north about to set upon them. Just look at how much the rest of the kingdoms scoff at the Night's Watch and the Wall and barely care about the Wall being manned. The political stuff being total bullshit in the end is like, the whole point =P

I'm struggling to find a source, but I swear I ready that George R.R Martin originally intended to story to end after that point. I do suspect he probably meant that the undead would swarm over Westeros shortly afterwards, though.

I wouldn't mind the undead/dragon stuff if it were more interesting. I love fantasy elements, but Dany and Jon just suck out any and all love for those tropes.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

In one of his letters (combined together in The Letters of JRR Tolkein) he expresses a wish for his works to become a new mythology, and for him to write a few of the stories, but leave other stories untold for other authors to write.

Can't remember which letter it is off the top of my head though.

Ah it’s a shame that isn’t happening hopefully one day.

[Veldoranz]

I don't think he ever intends to write it.

I believe he has his notes, and his uber fans who know more about the story then he does. He is going to enjoy the rest of his life and let someone else worry about writing the rest of the series.

I remember hearing that it nobody is allowed to finish the series as it's been written into his Will.

[Deleted]

I remember hearing that it nobody is allowed to finish the series as it's been written into his Will.

This is America I am sure with the right amount of legal mumbo jumbo they can twist and turn it into making it so that someone will finish once good ol George kicks the bucket, they pretty much managed to do that with the Stig Larsson books here in Sweden no reason they could not do that in a much more corrupt system with millions and millions of dollars at stake here.

[Izalla]

I'm struggling to find a source, but I swear I ready that George R.R Martin originally intended to story to end after that point. I do suspect he probably meant that the undead would swarm over Westeros shortly afterwards, though.

I wouldn't mind the undead/dragon stuff if it were more interesting. I love fantasy elements, but Dany and Jon just suck out any and all love for those tropes.

That would still leave the important Jon stuff left without being dealt with though. I could see it being his original intention for his story before he actually got writing and publishing, because he might not have had all the magical elements in mind yet!

- - - Updated - - -

I remember hearing that it nobody is allowed to finish the series as it's been written into his Will.

That is right up the alley I see him in, a massive egotistical cunt doesn't give a shit about actually writing the story that made him so popular in the first place and just basks in the attention he's gotten so far, and won't let anyone else touch his story should he not bother to finish it because fans be damned, who gives a shit about the people who've been reading it for 20 years.

I could be totally wrong because I don't actually know anything about him except his complete lack of caring about finishing his story and all the excuses he makes for why it takes him so long as he does a million side projects. But that is how I perceive him based on it! I'm sure it sucks to hear people talk about him dying all the time but sorry dude, you made this bed for yourself and now you have to sleep in it. Reality is that most people who read your books don't give a damn about you as a person, they care about the story they are engaged with. They have no actual connection to you, just your characters.

[Airlick]

We don't know that considering the books haven't been written/published.

We do know that considering some chapters from WoW HAVE been released/read in public, and they present a different story from the show. And this is not even mentioning changes in the seasons based on the books that have already been released, like the utter slaughtering of the Dorne plot, removal of Victarion's character, who's one of the more prominent characters in the books, removal of Lady Stoneheart, cutting of the whole Winterfell storyline (from both Boltons' and Stannis' viewpoints) that is probably going to go far into WoW, killing off Barristan...

Yeah, we can safely assume the next books, if they ever come out, will be massively different from the show. I would actually agree with the suspicion that was put up here that GRRM is deliberately holding out on the books because he's waiting for the last season to come out, so as not to harm HBO's profits if the show turns out to be nothing but bad fanfiction. He may have at least WoW long finished and be simply pretending that he doesn't.

[eschatological]

That would still leave the important Jon stuff left without being dealt with though. I could see it being his original intention for his story before he actually got writing and publishing, because he might not have had all the magical elements in mind yet!

- - - Updated - - -



That is right up the alley I see him in, a massive egotistical cunt doesn't give a shit about actually writing the story that made him so popular in the first place and just basks in the attention he's gotten so far, and won't let anyone else touch his story should he not bother to finish it because fans be damned, who gives a shit about the people who've been reading it for 20 years.

I could be totally wrong because I don't actually know anything about him except his complete lack of caring about finishing his story and all the excuses he makes for why it takes him so long as he does a million side projects. But that is how I perceive him based on it! I'm sure it sucks to hear people talk about him dying all the time but sorry dude, you made this bed for yourself and now you have to sleep in it. Reality is that most people who read your books don't give a damn about you as a person, they care about the story they are engaged with. They have no actual connection to you, just your characters.

Artists owe nothing to their audiences. Art is for the artist's sake, and sometimes not even that - sometimes art is simply for art's sake. I'm sure Edvard Munch didn't want to see the world like he did in The Scream, but que sera, sera.

[Berndorf]

2021 at the earliest is my guess. Maybe 2027 for book 7 if Martin lives that long. That's unfortunately what my current expectations are when it comes to asoiaf. I think at this point he should just do a synopsis of books 6 and 7 that is like 50 pages long in case people just want to know how it ends and how the main storylines are resolved. Maybe in case he dies before book 6 even comes out.

- - - Updated - - -

Is this your personal opinion or was this actually intended to be the end? I can't see in any universe where this was supposed to be the end when the first book opens with the undead and ends with the dragons =P And also the R+L=J thing has been sprinkled throughout since the very first book as well. The political intrigue, as interesting as it is and obviously it's fine if that's the only stuff you like, has always been intended to be the least important stuff as far as I understand, because in the end the undead are the greatest threat and everyone playing their "game of thrones" are just food for the zombies (figuratively) when they finally come. Kinda just highlights how pathetic it is for them to be plotting and planning and sabotaging and betraying when their doom is lurking in the north about to set upon them. Just look at how much the rest of the kingdoms scoff at the Night's Watch and the Wall and barely care about the Wall being manned. The political stuff being total bullshit in the end is like, the whole point =P

I think it was originally intended to be a trilogy but by the time he got to writing the second or third book he already knew it would go much longer.

[Izalla]

2021 at the earliest is my guess. Maybe 2027 for book 7 if Martin lives that long. That's unfortunately what my current expectations are when it comes to asoiaf. I think at this point he should just do a synopsis of books 6 and 7 that is like 50 pages long in case people just want to know how it ends and how the main storylines are resolved. Maybe in case he dies before book 6 even comes out.

- - - Updated - - -



I think it was originally intended to be a trilogy but by the time he got to writing the second or third book he already knew it would go much longer.

Well three books versus the story as we know it being cut in half isn't quite the same, he could have intended the same overall story within three books but just got carried away.

[Wildstars]

At that point I'm just waiting when he kicks the bucket and someone else finish the book story. George don't care about his fans and his stories anymore. Why should I?

[Berndorf]

Well three books versus the story as we know it being cut in half isn't quite the same, he could have intended the same overall story within three books but just got carried away.

I think he was having a lot of fun with the setting and had lots of ideas from history books and other things he wanted to put in and then just sort of lost interest in it to some degree. He had talked about how hard it was getting for him to keep track of all the different storylines and characters and to try and keep it all cohesive in terms of when everything should overlap. I think he's just worn out mentally and having trouble putting himself back in the mindset it requires to write the books.

[Varolyn]

Pretty much after the third book the series became a little of a mess. He tried to bring in new characters from different locations but at that point readers were already attached to the main characters in the first three books so they didn't care all too much. Didn't help that most of these stories aren't very interesting and have seemingly little to do with the end-game. Dorne is boring, Brienne's journey is boring, Zombie Catelyn being a walking cliffhanger, the whole Fake Aegon thing, and then you have Euron thrown in as a new villain kind of randomly. There are just too many plot points all separated and muddled but Martin has to find a way to interconnect them all in a logical way, so he kind of put himself in this position.