White guy acting as Martin Luther King Jr in a movie

[Deleted]

You're absolutely right. We should have none of these, but if we have one race subjected to racial misrepresentation of characters, then the other races can be misrepresented too. I simply feel like none should be around.

Man, a black Jean D'Arc... Who the hell comes up with this stuff.

Who knows, I've been laughing my ass off this afternoon googling all this stuff though. This its hilarious :P.
My favorite is the Queen Margaret one. French royal in the 1400's marrying into the English royal family. There we no black people in any form of power in that age anywhere in Europe as far as I know.

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For fictional characters I don't care especially if the story is good, the only time when it matters is people that lived because then it doesn't make much sense. Also Idris Elba and Bruce Willis are horrible actors no more casting choices for you.

I'll give you Bruce. that was more of a joke to be honest.
But absolutely love Idris since Luther in 2010. Wish he would have gotten the role as the new James Bond.

[Draco-Onis]

I'll give you Bruce. that was more of a joke to be honest.
But absolutely love Idris since Luther in 2010. Wish he would have gotten the role as the new James Bond.

I will have to check it out, I have yet to see an Idris in something that wowed me. He seems to always be playing the same character with no depth.

[Deleted]

I will have to check it out, I have yet to see an Idris in something that wowed me. He seems to always be playing the same character with no depth.

Luther: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1474684/

Really worth checking out. One of my favorite tv shows of all time!

Another one of my favorites : The wire: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0306414...nm_flmg_act_58
He plays a great role in that as well!

[Tiwack]

This topic is not a debate about race or skin color. This is about the socially accepted limits for movies, tv shows and videogames.

Recently we are seeing lots of diversity in tv series, movies and videogames like for example: Troy series with black guy acting as Achilles, an African-Polish mix race woman acting as ethnically French national hero Joan of arc and Margaret queen of England, which is being acted by a mix-raced woman.

Would it be okay and should a white guy act as a Martin Luther King Jr. in a potential tv show, movie or a videogame in the future? Would you be okay with that? Is there a limit what should or should not be done? Or is it just a movie and everything is okay?

I think it's great and directors should be free to do what they want with no studio- and publisher-interference. "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere."

"Men judge generally more by the eye than by the hand, for everyone can see and few can feel. Every one sees what you appear to be, few really know what you are."

[RampageBW1]

as long as it's not trying to be historically accurate, some kind of alternate universe thing, that'd be ok.

weird as fuck though.

I can see it now. Robert Downey Jr in MLK Jr; ZOMBIE DRAGON HUNTER!

In all seriousness, I don't think you'd want such a historical figure to be protrayed by a White Actor in Black Face.

[derpkitteh]

I can see it now. Robert Downey Jr in MLK Jr; ZOMBIE DRAGON HUNTER!

In all seriousness, I don't think you'd want such a historical figure to be protrayed by a White Actor in Black Face.

i wasn't even thinking of black face until now.

but it'd be hilarious. white guy in black face as king, gets teleported back in time to 1945 and has to go on a daring mission to kill hitler, played by a black man in white face.

[Raelbo]

Recently we are seeing lots of diversity in tv series, movies and videogames like for example: Troy series with black guy acting as Achilles, an African-Polish mix race woman acting as ethnically French national hero Joan of arc and Margaret queen of England, which is being acted by a mix-raced woman.

Personally, if it's a show about a historical figure, I would have a general soft preference for using an actor who physically resembles the historical figure. But to be honest, the tv and movie industry have long been guilty of casting white actors for everyone. At the end of the day, if the actor plays the role well, and the context of the story doesn't really demand it, skin colour shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Unfortunately a lot gets made of the move towards diversity because some people (erroneously) see it as discrimination against the demographic (white) that is losing out. And that threatens them. What these people fail to consider is that, historically, white characters have been massively over-represented in film and television.

Would it be okay and should a white guy act as a Martin Luther King Jr. in a potential tv show, movie or a videogame in the future? Would you be okay with that?

Obviously this would not be ok because of the context of his life story: A black man, fighting for black rights against white oppressors. It would be pretty insulting to cast him as a white man tbh.

[Deleted]

Personally, if it's a show about a historical figure, I would have a general soft preference for using an actor who physically resembles the historical figure. But to be honest, the tv and movie industry have long been guilty of casting white actors for everyone. At the end of the day, if the actor plays the role well, and the context of the story doesn't really demand it, skin colour shouldn't be a deal breaker.

Unfortunately a lot gets made of the move towards diversity because some people (erroneously) see it as discrimination against the demographic (white) that is losing out. And that threatens them. What these people fail to consider is that, historically, white characters have been massively over-represented in film and television.



Obviously this would not be ok because of the context of his life story: A black man, fighting for black rights against white oppressors. It would be pretty insulting to cast him as a white man tbh.

Maybe scroll up.
I've linked 3 historical white characters that have been casted with black people in the lat few months.

Nothing to do with discrimination but you can't be against this and for the other. That would make you a giant hypocrite.

[Theodarzna]

If you haven't, check out the earlier episodes of that rubbish; there's an episode about the dawn of the Iron Age in Britain, in which the village blacksmith is a black dude. Made me cringe into a migraine.

OT: I can settle this, we get Shaun King to do it. He's totally black you guys: https://twitter.com/ShaunKing

Stuff like that irks me. Especially given its intended educational nature whilst misrepresenting the Island at that time for obviously modern political reasons.

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I mean, most of history is "IF" and "MAYBE" when there's no written records, so that's not really fair to level that on me alone here :P

I'm not saying it was common, either. Nor that it was a large population. Just that it was larger than one, but small enough that genetically it disappeared. We know there was at least one person brought from Sub-saharan and let's be frank here - Camp Follower is probably about the best title we could give her, unless you want to take "slave" as a better explanation. Which would be rather atypical in and of itself given the burial details, if I'm remembering right. Camp Followers tended to be large numbers, if only for logistical reasons, so it would stand to reason that where there is one there were most likely many. You can, of course, argue that they followed the army out again though.

The big thing though is the 20 (or 25) years - if they hit that, they tended to settle where they sat. No one was travelling back to their homes, and living in Rome itself was... complex for non-Romans. I've also tried to be as clear as I can be that this is highly dependent on not only a number of factors that amount to random luck but also just folk memory of important people in general. I'm not lending credibility to a show that made the legion of black Picts, just the idea that Arthur may have, in one iteration or another, been familiar with black fighters / had a black advisor.

Mostly bad history is IF's and MAYBE's especially when it consists of people trying to argue for their modern sensibilities and ideologies to be present in the past. Kind of like the arguement that MAYBE Alexander the Great had AIDS.

Camp followers also were usually local women, not women from thousands upon thousands of miles away, if there were any like that it was freakishly rare. You tend to fuck prostitutes locally, not drag ones from thousands of miles away. A Roman General may have known what an African was, and may have even known what they look like and seen one before (A subsaharan African even maybe, though unlikely), A warlord from the 500CE-600CE period at best knew of Africa and probably thought they looked like Italians.

[pyro989898]

If its not ok for a white guy to play MLK then black people should not be playing white historical figures.
It goes both ways.
Seeing its fine for black people to play white historical figures I am sure no one is giong to object to a white guy playing MLK.

That being said, i think its both stupid. White historical figures should be played by white people and MLK should be played by Idris Elba (my favorite actor of all time).

If some film maker decides to make a movie on a historical event, they should try to make character as similar as possible to original character.
If some film maker decide to change some part of historical event , at least put a disclaimer that they have make certain changes in order to please audience .

[Raelbo]

Maybe scroll up.
I've linked 3 historical white characters that have been casted with black people in the lat few months.

Nothing to do with discrimination but you can't be against this and for the other. That would make you a giant hypocrite.

Maybe read what I actually wrote. Your argument is based on the false equivalence fallacy

Your examples are not the same thing, because they have very different context.
1) The important thing about Joan of Arc is that she was a woman. Casting a man in her role would be the equivalent of casting a white person as MLK
2) Achilles is a fictional character from an ancient story created for an audience of a different time.
3) The Hollow Crown is based on a play by Shakespeare. Also a work of fiction.

None of these is the equivalent of the MLK story. In none of them is the fact that the role is played by a person of different colour in any way impactful on the story because in none of them was the race of the character of any significance.

The fact the MLK was a black person is very significant to his story because of what his story was about.

And there are, certainly, stories in which I would be against changing the race of a white character. For example the character of FW de Klerk (the white South African president who is responsible for abolishing apartheid and making peace with Nelson Mandela). The fact that he was a white Afrikaans man is a big part of what makes his story remarkable. In the same way the fact that Nelson was a black African man is central to what his story remarkable.

So yes, I can be fine with your 3 meaningless, non-equivalent examples and not be any kind of hypocrite

[Theodarzna]

Maybe read what I actually wrote. Your argument is based on the false equivalence fallacy

Your examples are not the same thing, because they have very different context.
1) The important thing about Joan of Arc is that she was a woman. Casting a man in her role would be the equivalent of casting a white person as MLK
2) Achilles is a fictional character from an ancient story created for an audience of a different time.
3) The Hollow Crown is based on a play by Shakespeare. Also a work of fiction.

None of these is the equivalent of the MLK story. In none of them is the fact that the role is played by a person of different colour in any way impactful on the story because in none of them was the race of the character of any significance.

The fact the MLK was a black person is very significant to his story because of what his story was about.

And there are, certainly, stories in which I would be against changing the race of a white character. For example the character of FW de Klerk (the white South African president who is responsible for abolishing apartheid and making peace with Nelson Mandela). The fact that he was a white Afrikaans man is a big part of what makes his story remarkable. In the same way the fact that Nelson was a black African man is central to what his story remarkable.

So yes, I can be fine with your 3 meaningless, non-equivalent examples and not be any kind of hypocrite

Can Papa Legba be played by a white character?

[Raelbo]

Can Papa Legba be played by a white character?

Personally, as someone who consider voodoo to be nothing more than fiction, I wouldn't have an issue with it (even if I would find it an odd casting choice given that white people don't believe in Voodoo).

Not being an expert on Voodoo or Haitian culture though, I have little way of knowing whether this would be something that is likely to cause offense, or whether said offense would be justified.

Here's a funny example though: Jesus of Nazereth has been portrayed multiple times in film as being white even though historically that would have been very unlikely. I, like most other people, am fine with that. What is hypocritical is how a lot of (white) people in the USA would be very offended if he was portrayed as black (even if doing so made it no less historically accurately). Personally, given what Jesus stood for, I think that the race of the actor playing his role would be completely irrelevant.

[Deleted]

the age old problem, 99.99% of people who want to go in talent industry's...don't actually have any talent :/

just call it post modern and some one will pay for it though.

It was actually a really disappointing evening. It could have made a real impact, and just made everyone a bit... Uncomfortable.

[Stretchie]

I have no issue with Race swapping a character when race is unimportant to the character. Swapping MLK as anything else just doesn't make sense.

[Sylvestra]

That's even worse than a black Achilles.

[Deleted]

It was actually a really disappointing evening. It could have made a real impact, and just made everyone a bit... Uncomfortable.

I had the same experience once, my ex was an aspiring actress and I went to watch her college exam performance and there was a bunch of other performance's before and after, hers was ok but nothing id write home about, some were really good and really made me think one very very good one was a modern adaptation of the fall of Cesar where Brutus used false allegations to "assassinate" Cesar and it would have been an awesome night just to watch that, but the vast majority was just trash with terrible over acting or a few tried to make political / race points but just came across like conspiracy theorists or were to attached to the issue to make it a believable story, one even had a white guy dressed as the devil "stealing" black people by putting them in a sack and carrying them off, I was like is this supposed to be a panto ? and why are you making a clearly American centric statement to a British audience anyway ?

[Clone]

Achilles is not real though.

[Deleted]

Can Papa Legba be played by a white character?

I don't think you intended it to be this way but that's actually a complex case. vudou loa are derived from a bunch of religious figures and also bar there manner of dress often don't have a set race but from what I was told appear how they want.

as Papa Legba is based on these guys, Saint Peter, Saint Lazarus, and Saint Anthony. then I guess you could depending on what the context of the story is and how he would want to appear to people.

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Achilles is not real though.

maybe. the Iliad is part history part fiction, we know from Hittite records that part of what homer called the trojan war did happen and some of the people in the Iliad were real, like Paris, but we cannot be 100% sure about any of it. we know a place called the tomb of achilleas was a popular tourist spot for ancient Greeks but we don't know if it ever contained a body of achilleas

[dextersmith]

Good, it works both ways.