[Megathread] Fallout 76

[Daedius]

A full cosmetic appearance set costs $40-50 in Path of Exile. You also can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76. "But it's free to play!" Well, there have been $20-30 mounts for sale in WoW for over a decade now, and again, you can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76, plus, it's a game that used to have an initial cost (expansions still do), and it has a subscription.

OK, so even if other, well loved games do this, in an even worse way, it's not allowed for Bethesda to do the same. Even when you can actually get those items without paying a dime.

Meanwhile, Rockstar has fleeced people with their pay-to-win schemes for years now, selling shark cards in GTA:O. Now they're continuing that, selling gold bars in RD:O. EA is pushing pure pay-to-win in SW Battlefronts 2.

Compared to something like Path of Exile or WoW, or I'm sure a dozen other games (Conan Exiles comes to mind also), Fallout 76 actually has a very cool MTX system where you can earn a good chunk of the Atom value in game by just playing the game, and then pay the rest with real money. Or, if you want, you can just drop cash on the game if you have it. Or, you can just pay nothing at all, and earn all of the Atoms in game instead.

What I personally think is a bit dumb is that the limited time Christmas items are "discounted", since they've never been for sale for that original price, nor will they be, since they're limited time. That's definitely a bad move on the part of whoever runs the Atomic Shop side of the game. But, 2000 Atoms for a skin? You can easily have that by now if you haven't bought anything else. Or, if you've got like 500-1500 left since you've been buying (free) stuff already, you can buy a bunch more Atoms to close the gap.

But hey, it's Bethesda, so let's just ignore all the other shit other companies do and concentrate on shitting on Bethesda instead.

EDIT: Just checked since it occurred to me, Fortnite sells skins for 1500 V-bucks, and 1000 V-bucks cost $10. So $15 for a skin. A bit cheaper, but they've also got like what, I dunno, 50-100x more users?

You can buy any Blizzard/WoW products with gold, buying Tokens to be converted to B.net Balance...

[Eleccybubb]

This thread has been pretty informative though on whether I should buy FO76. I was on the fence but now I'm sure I'll never bother with it. Maybe when its in a Humble Bundle or something I'll give it a look. Just to see where all the memes come from.

Honestly for the full price of this you can get far superior games. Hell less even.

Red Dead 2, Spiderman, God of War, Monster Hunter World, Black Ops 4 (yeah I'm not even kidding), Smash, Hitman 2, Dragon Ball Fighter Z and loads more. I'd even recommend throwing more money on Destiny 2 before this crap.

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You can buy any Blizzard/WoW products with gold, buying Tokens to be converted to B.net Balance...

Ah I see we are at the part where the people defending this game have deflected to other games to make their game appear better.

Common thing on this forum. I remember a guy in the Rift sub forum who deflected to WoW any time he wanted to make that game look better.

It's a common tactic for when people don't really have anything left to defend their game with. Basically the "bottom of the barrel" defence mechanism.

[LazarusLong]

And that has nothing to do with "buying Fallout 76".

You're really desperate to spin your lies as truth, aren't you?

Except of course Bethesda leaked the data of F76 customers so you obviously had to buy the game.

It's so cute how Donny Endus is out of lies to defend shitty devs.

[Makabreska]

But hey, it's Bethesda, so let's just ignore all the other shit other companies do and concentrate on shitting on Bethesda instead.

It is Bethesda game thread afterall, you know. And "but others are worse so it's ok that we are bad" excuse was always shit.

[Daedius]

Honestly for the full price of this you can get far superior games. Hell less even.

Red Dead 2, Spiderman, God of War, Monster Hunter World, Black Ops 4 (yeah I'm not even kidding), Smash, Hitman 2, Dragon Ball Fighter Z and loads more. I'd even recommend throwing more money on Destiny 2 before this crap.

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Ah I see we are at the part where the people defending this game have deflected to other games to make their game appear better.

Common thing on this forum. I remember a guy in the Rift sub forum who deflected to WoW any time he wanted to make that game look better.

It's a common tactic for when people don't really have anything left to defend their game with. Basically the "bottom of the barrel" defence mechanism.

What? I ain't defending FO76. The game's shit!

[Deleted]

You can buy any Blizzard/WoW products with gold, buying Tokens to be converted to B.net Balance...

I actually wasn't aware this was a thing, and as such stand corrected on that point.

It is Bethesda game thread afterall, you know. And "but others are worse so it's ok that we are bad" excuse was always shit.

Right... But, imagine opening up a service. How would you price the stuff you're selling? Would you look at what everyone else (who has similar MTXs) is doing, and set prices according to what they seem to be everywhere else? Would you look at the ongoing development and upkeep costs of your service, and try to make sure that you're not in the red constantly and thus set the prices accordingly?

Or, would you be some white knight of the gaming world, setting the prices so low that you're actually losing money constantly, but hey, at least people have cheap MTXs to and you get "karma points"?

See, the secret is, no matter how cheap you set the price, there'll always be people whining about them being too expensive. Especially when it's Bethesda.

[Makabreska]

See, the secret is, no matter how cheap you set the price, there'll always be people whining about them being too expensive. Especially when it's Bethesda.

I don't really buy this "especially when it's Bethesda". They've been praised for years for their games. Skyrim was treated like some kind of Holy Grail of gaming. Only after F4 people started to notice quality drop, and whole thing blew up just recently, with F76. All the shit they get now is well deserved.

[Fayolynn]

Ah I see we are at the part where the people defending this game have deflected to other games to make their game appear better.

I think in this case it's a fair defense. Trying to shit on FO76 about micro transactions that exist in pretty much every major online game is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as critisism goes.

[Makabreska]

I think in this case it's a fair defense. Trying to shit on FO76 about micro transactions that exist in pretty much every major online game is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as critisism goes.

Not really surprising though. After all the shitshow, both game and Bethesda are under maximum scrutiny. Everything will be brought to light and criticized.

[Eleccybubb]

What? I ain't defending FO76. The game's shit!

Didn't mean you were mate. Don't worry! <3

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I think in this case it's a fair defense. Trying to shit on FO76 about micro transactions that exist in pretty much every major online game is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as critisism goes.

Not really.

The games in a shoddy state as it is. DLC priced paint really doesn't help it's cause.

[Dextroden]

I don't really buy this "especially when it's Bethesda". They've been praised for years for their games. Skyrim was treated like some kind of Holy Grail of gaming. Only after F4 people started to notice quality drop, and whole thing blew up just recently, with F76. All the shit they get now is well deserved.

If people were really this offended by greed, there'd be more anger in other threads.

Conveniently, you'll find a lot of the people moaning in here defending micro transactions in single player games. (Oddysey and RDR2)

You'll also see them trying to Garner sympathy for EA Dice after the star cards fiasco while in here.

And the console Bethesda games are a perfect show of why people are bullshit. If the inability to mod or use console commands is reason to call this game bad, what's the excuse for the 360 games that didn't have that as an option?

[Video Games]

I actually wasn't aware this was a thing, and as such stand corrected on that point.



Right... But, imagine opening up a service. How would you price the stuff you're selling? Would you look at what everyone else (who has similar MTXs) is doing, and set prices according to what they seem to be everywhere else? Would you look at the ongoing development and upkeep costs of your service, and try to make sure that you're not in the red constantly and thus set the prices accordingly?

Or, would you be some white knight of the gaming world, setting the prices so low that you're actually losing money constantly, but hey, at least people have cheap MTXs to and you get "karma points"?

See, the secret is, no matter how cheap you set the price, there'll always be people whining about them being too expensive. Especially when it's Bethesda.

I wouldnt price skins for more than the price of the game is right now.

Like yeah the game is terrible so it flopped and they need more money, but good lord.

[Gibblewink]

As for the argument that the items can be earned in-game, the time-limited ones can't be earned in the time they are available as their cost is higher than the amount you can accrue during that time. Granted if you had the points saved before the items become available you can avoid spending RL money, but those points can after all only be spent once and 4000 or Atoms that people have been mentioning don't go very far.

[dope_danny]

I think in this case it's a fair defense. Trying to shit on FO76 about micro transactions that exist in pretty much every major online game is really scrapping the bottom of the barrel as far as critisism goes.

Not to be rude to you but in terms of that sentiment fuck that noise. When Square Enix tried to turn FFXV into "jrpg as a service" i and many others said "thats fuckin' horseshit. I am not okay with funpay minibuys' and wallet gouging in this series i love" not "w-well other games do it, so fair do's i suppose. I'll just bend on over and present because apparently i am a bitch". Being a complacent consumer is giving up on voicing an opinion against this shit. The whales will buy it anyway. Thats been the case since Maple Story proved a game can milk users on pixels and texture files for real money. If you don't call out microtransactions and voice concern over companies trying to adopt it them you cannot complain when it becomes the norm.

Bare in mind i remember all those years ago when Bethesda introduced paid horse armour for Oblivion and was told "what do you mean a slippery slope and all devs will try and force price gouging and break up games for post release additional rmt purchases? thats crazy talk you hater troll!" and all these years later because the majority rolled over and took it here we are in the nightmare scenario we are in now where games are intentionally made in some outrageous cases with things like true endings kept behind a paywall. 'other games do it' is just 'its not a slippery slope' all over again. We have been down this road before and i guess people didn't learn a bloody thing.

[Saphyron]

A full cosmetic appearance set costs $40-50 in Path of Exile. You also can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76. "But it's free to play!" Well, there have been $20-30 mounts for sale in WoW for over a decade now, and again, you can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76, (EDIT 2: Apparently you can turn gold into Battle.net balance, wasn't aware of that) plus, it's a game that used to have an initial cost (expansions still do), and it has a subscription.

OK, so even if other, well loved games do this, in an even worse way, it's not allowed for Bethesda to do the same. Even when you can actually get those items without paying a dime.

Meanwhile, Rockstar has fleeced people with their pay-to-win schemes for years now, selling shark cards in GTA:O. Now they're continuing that, selling gold bars in RD:O. EA is pushing pure pay-to-win in SW Battlefronts 2.

Compared to something like Path of Exile or WoW, or I'm sure a dozen other games (Conan Exiles comes to mind also), Fallout 76 actually has a very cool MTX system where you can earn a good chunk of the Atom value in game by just playing the game, and then pay the rest with real money. Or, if you want, you can just drop cash on the game if you have it. Or, you can just pay nothing at all, and earn all of the Atoms in game instead.

What I personally think is a bit dumb is that the limited time Christmas items are "discounted", since they've never been for sale for that original price, nor will they be, since they're limited time. That's definitely a bad move on the part of whoever runs the Atomic Shop side of the game. But, 2000 Atoms for a skin? You can easily have that by now if you haven't bought anything else. Or, if you've got like 500-1500 left since you've been buying (free) stuff already, you can buy a bunch more Atoms to close the gap.

But hey, it's Bethesda, so let's just ignore all the other shit other companies do and concentrate on shitting on Bethesda instead.

EDIT: Just checked since it occurred to me, Fortnite sells skins for 1500 V-bucks, and 1000 V-bucks cost $10. So $15 for a skin. A bit cheaper, but they've also got like what, I dunno, 50-100x more users?

No one is saying the other games gets a pass on it. Well, some might. Just because other companies do stupid shit does not mean fallout should do stupid shit.

You know the whole learn from history don't repeat. Sadly Fallout hasn't learned from it but is taking the worst parts of history.

[lollermittens]

A full cosmetic appearance set costs $40-50 in Path of Exile. You also can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76. "But it's free to play!" Well, there have been $20-30 mounts for sale in WoW for over a decade now, and again, you can't earn that currency in game, as opposed to Fallout 76, (EDIT 2: Apparently you can turn gold into Battle.net balance, wasn't aware of that) plus, it's a game that used to have an initial cost (expansions still do), and it has a subscription.

OK, so even if other, well loved games do this, in an even worse way, it's not allowed for Bethesda to do the same. Even when you can actually get those items without paying a dime.

Meanwhile, Rockstar has fleeced people with their pay-to-win schemes for years now, selling shark cards in GTA:O. Now they're continuing that, selling gold bars in RD:O. EA is pushing pure pay-to-win in SW Battlefronts 2.

Compared to something like Path of Exile or WoW, or I'm sure a dozen other games (Conan Exiles comes to mind also), Fallout 76 actually has a very cool MTX system where you can earn a good chunk of the Atom value in game by just playing the game, and then pay the rest with real money. Or, if you want, you can just drop cash on the game if you have it. Or, you can just pay nothing at all, and earn all of the Atoms in game instead.

What I personally think is a bit dumb is that the limited time Christmas items are "discounted", since they've never been for sale for that original price, nor will they be, since they're limited time. That's definitely a bad move on the part of whoever runs the Atomic Shop side of the game. But, 2000 Atoms for a skin? You can easily have that by now if you haven't bought anything else. Or, if you've got like 500-1500 left since you've been buying (free) stuff already, you can buy a bunch more Atoms to close the gap.

But hey, it's Bethesda, so let's just ignore all the other shit other companies do and concentrate on shitting on Bethesda instead.

EDIT: Just checked since it occurred to me, Fortnite sells skins for 1500 V-bucks, and 1000 V-bucks cost $10. So $15 for a skin. A bit cheaper, but they've also got like what, I dunno, 50-100x more users?

No... no.

There's no defending spending $12 to buy 12 different .png files that cover the existing pictures of your emotes with Xmas-themed ones.

The $12 emote pack introduced in FO76 over the weekend doesn't even replace your emotes: it only replaces the pictures on your emote wheel.

There's no defending this. There's no defending MTx in general.

I'm so sick of the "it's only cosmetic so it doesn't matter." This has been proven patently false time and time again that cosmetic MTx take away from a game's longevity by not offering the possibility to obtain such items in other innovative ways than simply grind.

There was a time in gaming where unlocking extra skins, extra maps, and other extra stuff was centered around game mechanics and in-game challenges. Now? Either shell out the money or do the same repetitive, mundane shit to get access to poorly thought-out and insulting in-game skins.

Bethesda doesn't get a pass just like Blizzard doesn't get one or ATVI or EA. Fuck these companies if you're forcing down MTx down my throat when development for games has been at the lowest its ever been and digital release of games has made operational budgets more affordable than ever.

The argument that games should cost is $80 is utter shit because games shouldn't cost $60 to begin with. The $60 price point was introduced around the release of the Xbox 360 and at the time, companies still had to deal with packaging and handling physical discs; the rights to publish their games on a certain console; the marketing that goes along the sale of such discs; and other Herculean supply chain logistics that took entire teams of people to create and manage correctly. Now that this storage format is phasing away, the $60 price point only stuck around because the market can bear it and justify such a price-point. At the same time, gaming budgets (keeping up with inflation) have decreased as engines have become cheaper and more accessible and your average developer is easier to find than ever (using outliers such as RDR2 or other monumental games as examples of gaming budgets being high misrepresents what the overall industry including indie, mid-tier, and high-end developers spend on development). Salaries for individuals working for game companies have stagnated, but monetization practices since FIFA 07 created the lootbox as we know it introduced ways for gaming corporations to create sustainable revenues on a per-user basis over the lifecycle of a game.

Worst part of all this? Players defending monetization practices in video games due to ignorance or naivete.

[Fayolynn]

The games in a shoddy state as it is. DLC priced paint really doesn't help it's cause.

But the DLC paint has no actually bearing on how shoddy the game is and is not unique to FO76. Don't get me wrong I think micro transactions are the bane of modern gaming, but I also think it has no weight in this conversation. If anything with how easy it is to get atoms in the game it should be even less of an issue.

[Makabreska]

But the DLC paint has no actually bearing on how shoddy the game is and is not unique to FO76. Don't get me wrong I think micro transactions are the bane of modern gaming, but I also think it has no weight in this conversation. If anything with how easy it is to get atoms in the game it should be even less of an issue.

It's simply an icing on a clusterfuck cake.

[baskev]

Is it me or is EA looking at blizzard and bethesda and thinking...damm...even we are not that evil/sad. And bethesda is really going at it. reusing old assets, reselling old stuff for dollars a piece ( stuff you got in base game of fallout 4 or even mods for free), loot boxes.....FREAKING LOOOT BOXES!!!!, putting new stuff with its full price on the store and sayings its a sale item....holy crap.....
etc etc etc...

The game has been out for alomst 4 weeks. and every 2 to 3 days...they find a new way to be evil...

[Graeham]

Bethesda is one of those companies I wouldn't be surprised to see die out in the coming years.