Are professions worth it AT ALL anymore?

[Dravec]

You can keep telling yourself that, but it doesn't make it true. Sitting on a couple of mil purely from BS and LW this expac. If you are unable to figure out how to make money on anything other than those 3, that is your fault, not the professions.

If it takes you an entire xpac to make that much gold from those professions then that explains right there what the problem with them is.

[Mackeyser]

Professions:

Can I make something that's BIS, even if it's only for me be it an Alchy or Engy trink or BS,LW, Tailor piece? NO. And none of the crafted leggos are worth it unless you have super crappy luck or you want to start out twinked or just have to have the look for Xmog.

Do any professions truly change gameplay or markedly make a toon more powerful? NO. The exception could be the No Daze saddles. I see lots of people taking advantage of leashing to just run through mobs, but as I mostly play tanks, I will admit that I'm not the best evaluator of the utility of that. That said, every enchant is basically a stat buff. There's nothing currently in game that changes how one plays or makes you more powerful. Think back to MoP. Those weapon enchants were ones that you could tell when they proc'd and they made you feel more powerful. You WANTED to make sure you had the biggest enchant because it made a difference both in feel and raw numbers. Now there is nothing like that. Nothing changes for a person except that they are marginally more powerful and nothing that couldn't be massively eclipsed by simply a marginal improvement in one's skill level at playing the game.

Do the professions provide value to the WoW community? ABSOLUTELY. People pay for the convenience of not having to fully grind gear sets, they like to have the option to pay for different looks, but not in a "free to play" type situation where you spend money on xmog. They've also included several quality of life things which are really cool. Who hasn't enjoyed the Goblin Glider Kit???

Also, it provides a reason for the community to interact which is crucial in an MMO. Granted, it was better when there was a server community and the items were actually crucial for success, but it's still important. Want to quickly level engineering? Well, Thank the Blizz Devs for an AH because the alternative is a death grind. And...it feels good for some not to waste. A bank full of old mats could turn into a coveted mount or missing piece of gear for an alt or even a main if time's restricted.

In conclusion, it's not like I hate professions or the AH. FAR FROM IT. I use it to buy and sell and would be upset if it went away.

However, if we go by throughput, there are no professions that create the necessity that they did in xpacs past. Not that they're never needed...just that they don't create the necessity that they did in xpacs past. I surely remember the complaints on dead servers that players couldn't even GET certain enchants because the ONE guy who had it after some long grind or getting it out of some raid...left the server or game and now no one could get it at all or it was beyond expensive if someone else got it. Unless one is really pushing content, the marginal static buffs that each profession currently provides aren't generally enough to justify the costs nor do they ultimately make the difference between living and dying. Sure, on progression content, a tank may survive solely because they had a Stam flask and Versatility gems, but in general the onion isn't sliced that thinly. Yes, we've almost all of us have had that <1% wipe or killed a boss with Lock dots after everyone died.

So, yes, it amounts to the definition of "worth it".

If one has limited time to play, is it worth it to grind out the professions because there's a marked difference in player power that will make the game more fun? Probably not.

If one has the time to play and has the inclination to really gather the mats and dissect the AH market, is it worth it to acquire the in game currency? Probably.

But those are very different criteria. One can't answer "professions don't make me more powerful" with "well, I'm an AH champion with boatloads of gold and it's totally worth it...PLUS, you can twink out an alt!!!" None of that makes a player significantly more powerful as certain professions allowed in the past.

So, folks who LOVE professions can continue to slam those who question their efficacy, but with differing definitions of "worth it", it's like arguing over preference.

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Blizzard did away from that model for the exact reason your crying about. They don’t want people forced into professions in order to raid.

It’s as simple as that.

Professions are for making gold or saving yourself gold by making your own stuff.

Completely optional content

YES!!!

Exactly.

Thus... it's WORTH it for folks who like the optional content, want to be marginally more powerful or pay for modest quality of life improvements like Goblin Glider Kit or No Daze saddles or stuff like that... or... people want the pets, xmog looks or want to twink a toon to speed up their development.

However, you are correct that people complained bitterly about professions being mandatory...and you really need two and a separate gathering toon because professions offered you tangible benefits. You HAD to be a BS if you were a Warrior or Pally, etc. Anyone remember Stormherald? You had to go a pretty long way to replace that. And while we have merged servers and AHs that span multiple servers, back in the day, dead servers were super dead which meant that it was that much harder to make the stuff that was pretty much essential.

Thus, you're absolutely right.

Professions aren't essential. They don't break gameplay without them.

They're optional content to hopefully add some fun if one chooses to participate.

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Sure it will make a difference even more so when you look at the group as a whole. The idea people not doing mythic shouldn't take every advantage they can is also nonsense. Players who aren't as good, under perform or have lesser gear need all the help they can get. The it's not a big deal so why try attitude is why many get stuck where they are this goes for things far beyond gaming too.

I'll use a cycling analogy.

I used to train triathlon and really pushed my performance. Now, I'm nearly 50 and a Service-connected disabled vet. Even if I was allowed to ride a bike, there would be significant differences in how I went about it.

I used to have a fully tricked out Tri bike. I paid a bunch of money for tri-spoke carbon fiber wheels because they really did make a difference. Now? They would make exactly zero difference because I couldn't go fast enough to leverage the aerodynamic difference between the carbon fiber wheels and just plain old spoked wheels.

Same in WoW. The more you play and the more you push, the more difference the little things make.

However, if someone plays less than 6 hours a week, then the investment in time won't be worth what little they see if they notice any difference at all, even when it comes to quality of life items. By the time they level a profession, they could have fought their way through thousands of mobs or ridden down a mountain instead of gliding down.

If we use stat weight comparisons as an analogy, then the BIGGEST thing that improves player performance is... player performance. Even the slightest improvement in actual player skill development or depth of class/game mechanic knowledge will FAR OUTWEIGH any tangible benefits from ANY profession. It's not remotely close.

I've been playing since Vanilla used to progression raid lead when I was able and when I play classes I generally don't play often, I focus on finding the rotation, how a class needs to move and realizing where the class/spec synergies lie... and I generally outperform my iLvl because it's much more about skill than gear or buffs.

Players who are new and or poor players won't see much difference not because it's a matter of pushing, but because if they don't have the skill, they won't be leveraging the buff. When my son was younger he'd run around in raids alot with very low Time on Target and then complain about his dmg. I had to teach him how to move and keep in melee range when possible and it was skill building, not buying a bunch of BoEs that ultimately improved him to the point that he does well in raids now.

Also, buying buffs isn't really "trying". I mean it can be a sign that someone is making the effort, but it's not guaranteed anymore that gear score is a sign that a player is good.

EDIT: DAMMIT. I go through to make a few comments and because of this "aggregation" mode, it looks like I wrote a damned novel instead of replying to multiple people. Sorry all. It shouldn't look like this.

[Queen of Hamsters]

I like how the people in here saying professions are useful and then say that they only make money from Enchanting, Jewelcrafting, and Alchemy. Gee, you mean the only three professions raiders need? Lol. So what about all the other ones? Oh right, they don't offer anything anymore and are completely useless.

Professions have been pointless since WoD.

Talk about selective reading.

Tailoring, Leatherworking and Inscription are incredibly profitable as well. Raiders are not the only ones using the AH, I hope you know. I can easily make 30k+ in a day of minimal input from tailoring bags alone. If I made legendaries and transmog armor, I could make heaps more.

Professions have not been pointless since WoD, but stay ignorant, means less competition for those of us whom use professions.

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If it takes you an entire xpac to make that much gold from those professions then that explains right there what the problem with them is.

Lol, shifting goalposts. You went from "they're useless" to "they don't make enough fast enough", despite not even knowing how much effort the poster put into the goldmaking in the first place.

You and others making the same statements as you, are just factually wrong.

Suck it up, buttercup.

[Alvito]

However, if someone plays less than 6 hours a week, then the investment in time won't be worth what little they see if they notice any difference at all, even when it comes to quality of life items. By the time they level a profession, they could have fought their way through thousands of mobs or ridden down a mountain instead of gliding down.

You don't need to have a profession yourself to see the benefits from them though. Even if they did it takes very little time since you can so it while doing other things, it isn't as if you make a choice to do one of the other. Again though it doesn't matter if they have them, you don't need to be an alchemist to use potions and flasks, a jewel crafter to benefit from jewels, a cook for feasts or anything else. Using the benefits from them though does give you a big step towards getting stronger, if it didn't nobody would use them and at some point by passing on them it is the same as not equipping an item.

[Mackeyser]

You don't need to have a profession yourself to see the benefits from them though. Even if they did it takes very little time since you can so it while doing other things, it isn't as if you make a choice to do one of the other. Again though it doesn't matter if they have them, you don't need to be an alchemist to use potions and flasks, a jewel crafter to benefit from jewels, a cook for feasts or anything else. Using the benefits from them though does give you a big step towards getting stronger, if it didn't nobody would use them and at some point by passing on them it is the same as not equipping an item.

I totally agree with that. I use the AH and I max most if not all the professions. I took a break due to medical reasons this xpac so I havent leveled all my stable of toons to max or finished all of the professions, but I usually do.

The point of the OP, if I understand correctly, is that professions don't make you more powerful *like they used to*. Moreover, they on the whole don't scale. So a +200 crit buff may be really nice at 860 and pretty nice at 910, at 970, one hardly would notice. Why? Because fixed buffs don't scale so the more powerful a toon gets, the weaker the contribution of the fixed stat buff to the point where it's negligible.

That didn't used to be the case. Certain professions either made BiS or near BiS gear OR they provided significant benefits to a toon's output. Engy for melee dps used to be a real difference maker. You HAD to have the glove enchant and tanks could make good use of the belt enchant that granted a shield or the boot enchant that allowed for quick burst mobility.

So, yes, professions have a use and I'm personally glad for them and tend to participate in that now totally optional part of the game.

I think the point of the OP if I read him correctly was that professions used to be crucial to the point of being mandatory and now they are almost entirely an optional meta. Some people don't like that.

When they changed it, they did it because many people bitterly didn't like that professions were essentially a mandatory part of the game that created tremendous time demands. People forget that farming used to be MUCH more grindy, AHs were server and faction restricted, some mats only came from raids that many guilds couldn't do and the guilds that could weren't selling and switching mains was a MASSIVE pain in the butt in no small part because...you'd have to level two non-farming professions to max as the best stuff was BoP and required you to make them for yourself alone.

So you have two camps talking past one another.

One says: "professions are pointless" specifically because they don't make one significantly more powerful and thus unless they do that, they aren't worth the time investment.

Other says: "professions are still rockin'! AH is still moving all sorts of goods and I can make tons of money. The marketplace provides an essential service to the community that would otherwise be filled by a microtransaction model that would quickly if not immediately feel like pay2win (remember the D3 real money AH?)

What's funny is that BOTH ARE CORRECT with the narrow points they are making using their defined parameters.

It's essentially a WoW version of "TASTES GREAT!" "LESS FILLING" /shrug

[Dravec]

Talk about selective reading.

Tailoring, Leatherworking and Inscription are incredibly profitable as well. Raiders are not the only ones using the AH, I hope you know. I can easily make 30k+ in a day of minimal input from tailoring bags alone. If I made legendaries and transmog armor, I could make heaps more.

Professions have not been pointless since WoD, but stay ignorant, means less competition for those of us whom use professions.

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Lol, shifting goalposts. You went from "they're useless" to "they don't make enough fast enough", despite not even knowing how much effort the poster put into the goldmaking in the first place.

You and others making the same statements as you, are just factually wrong.

Suck it up, buttercup.

If the only thing those professions are good for is making minuscule amounts of gold when they are crafting professions then they aren't useful. I don't know about you, but for me and most people gold isn't really a big deal anymore, and hasn't been for many years.