Coffee House The end of liberalism

[Felya]

Yeah, now I am certain you are trolling.

No, you are just being insulting. I am having a civil discussion.

You apparently do not comprehend what a family unit is and what a nation is.

No, I comprehend it just fine. How is it that I don’t comprehend, when you are replying to me asking you how she can both be in and out of your tribe, based on your definitions.

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I can understand the appeal of nationalism, to people who feel disempowered and alone in the world, it can give them a sense of purpose and belonging to something greater. But simply making people feel slightly better about themselves doesn't quite make up for all the toxic effects that nationalism can have on a society, because it forces you to sacrifice whatever morals or values you might have to better align with those that the group demands you have, and to form bonds only with people within the "nation" whether you like them or not, at the expense of much more meaningful relationships you might find outside the tribe.

Especially considering people define tribes completely arbitrary. You can be in multiple tribes, that can be in conflict, while the people you consider in tribes, are not actually defined by much... other than how much you like them. Your family tribe is defined by genetics, until you get married. Your nation tribe is defined by your culture, even when you are in France, buying a quarter pounder with cheese...

@Prabog that’s the interesting thing about folks pushing this bizarre adherence to tribes. You guys don’t seem to be very welcoming to contrasting opinions. It seems to me, and feel free to correct me instead of calling me a troll, you have a very narrow view point. I think that is the chord these tribes evangelists are hitting. They are hitting people who are scared and frustrated with the world passing them by. They appeal to people who want to keep everything in a neat little box, by presenting tribes as those boxes to maintain. Showing cracks in those boxes feels like an attack, even when the perceived attacker is civility and communication.

[Macaquerie]

Especially considering people define tribes completely arbitrary. You can be in multiple tribes, that can be in conflict, while the people you consider in tribes, are not actually defined by much... other than how much you like them. Your family tribe is defined by genetics, until you get married. Your nation tribe is defined by your culture, even when you are in France, buying a quarter pounder with cheese...

I suppose national identity is kind of like porn, you don't know how exactly to define it but you can just tell who belongs and who doesn't when you see them because you just know somehow...

[Mayhem]

Family is a group of people who share common genetics

You don't have a stepmother, stepfather, stepbrother or stepsister do you?

[Felya]

You don't have a stepmother, stepfather, stepbrother or stepsister do you?

How about a spouse? Can you imagine how many tribes your spouse belongs to, that you don’t? I’m building a wall through the middle of my house... wait... I have a wall in the middle of my house! Land mines, then! Those are effective at keeping other tribes out...

[Mayhem]

How about a spouse? Can you imagine how many tribes your spouse belongs to, that you don’t? I’m building a wall through the middle of my house... wait... I have a wall in the middle of my house! Land mines, then! Those are effective at keeping other tribes out...

Right, lol, i forgot about spouse, hah.

[Felya]

I suppose national identity is kind of like porn, you don't know how exactly to define it but you can just tell who belongs and who doesn't when you see them because you just know somehow...

I think people who strive for national or ideological identity, are just afraid to be them selfs. It’s not unique to them, but I think you can see it in all of the projecting. As just an example... A liberal was overstepping his authority, was a scare tactic of nationalists in US. Currently, a nationalist can disrupt world trade with a single tweet and its celebrated. Having nationalist leaders, let’s people say that’s it’s a good thing government is over reaching, when previously a threat of it would be an insult. It makes them less afraid to be them selfs.

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Right, lol, i forgot about spouse, hah.

lol it’s a natural reaction...

[Muzjhath]

That is wrong.
They are literally fundamentally the same, because their fundament is the same.
They have the exact same core believes.

It are only the details and some side-issues where they disagree.

Tell that to the Arian Christians and the Homoousianism Christians that it's fundamentally the same and not a question about their eternal souls.

[Deleted]

@Ednus is right and you confirm it here. You are saying that you are defined by genetics, but then justify the Muslims in your country, in the contrast to Catholic’s reaction.

This and the next few posts must be one of the most convoluted ways to point out that families generally intermarry. :O

[Rennadrel]

The next step is basically Anthem. That's what the authoritarian left is aiming for.

[Deleted]

That is wrong.
They are literally fundamentally the same, because their fundament is the same.
They have the exact same core believes.

It are only the details and some side-issues where they disagree.

By this measure, antifa=fa
We're all humans, after all, each of us seeking the same core things: human things. All ideas are equal

[Acidbaron]

I'm impressed by the OP's talent to actually find these articles where the author uses a whole lot of words to make something sound more plausible while it's actually a whole bunch of nonsense when reduced to its core.

Is there some sort of database for these kind of thinkers?

[Sunseeker]

I'm impressed by the OP's talent to actually find these articles where the author uses a whole lot of words to make something sound more plausible while it's actually a whole bunch of nonsense when reduced to its core.

Is there some sort of database for these kind of thinkers?

Pretty much any book of poli-sci writing will have a handful.

[Felya]

This and the next few posts must be one of the most convoluted ways to point out that families generally intermarry. :O

Nope... that’s is not what I am saying at all... that’s what you think...

[Deleted]

Nope... that’s is not what I am saying at all... that’s what you think...

Feel free to elaborate.

[Felya]

Feel free to elaborate.

Sure...

@Prabog that’s the interesting thing about folks pushing this bizarre adherence to tribes. You guys don’t seem to be very welcoming to contrasting opinions. It seems to me, and feel free to correct me instead of calling me a troll, you have a very narrow view point. I think that is the chord these tribes evangelists are hitting. They are hitting people who are scared and frustrated with the world passing them by. They appeal to people who want to keep everything in a neat little box, by presenting tribes as those boxes to maintain. Showing cracks in those boxes feels like an attack, even when the perceived attacker is civility and communication.

“families generally intermarry” is you projecting. I have a quote from previous page on that as well.

[Deleted]

Sure...



“families generally intermarry” is you projecting. I have a quote from previous page on that as well.

I was the one bringing families to the thread. And the one establishing that not even families are closed boxes. As an example. No need to project: I'm still operating under the assumption that families are just examples of societies. You may be using them differently.

[Felya]

I was the one bringing families to the thread. And the one establishing that not even families are closed boxes. As an example. No need to project: I'm still operating under the assumption that families are just examples of societies. You may be using them differently.

Yeah, did you forget to switch accounts or are you not realizing that my family comment was a reply to someone else? You didn’t bring it up, but neither did I... lol

Edit: You know what... Since you misinterpret my replies to others. Let me see if replying to you help clarify the confusion. Will read and reply shortly...

Edit 2: Nope, nothing I care reply to. Sorry, it would be nit picking if I did. My only issue was with the post that I actually responded to.

[Powerogue]

What a bizarre word salad. The more I try to translate it into standard english the more it just reads as "Blagh, change bad! These new ideas will never last!" which we've heard a thousand times before.

[Deleted]

Yeah, did you forget to switch accounts or are you not realizing that my family comment as a direct reply? You didn’t bring it up, but neither did I... lol

Prabog is talking about families as a response to my post about families.
I don't quite see how the "fear and box-maintenance" thing follows necessarily from tribe adherence. Though it's possibly quite widespread.

[Deleted]

No, because antifa is socialist and fascism is.. surprise.. fascist.

Their core ideals are different.
Whereas the DNC are progressive liberals while the GNP are conservative liberals.

They're core ideas are both trying to do what they think is best. They're both fundamentally the same to the core: their ideas as best.

The devil is in the details. Those religious sects are equal to you, possibly because you don't much care for their differences. But you're not the arbiter what which differences matter and which don't.

Also, antifa doesn't necesarily have an economic model like socialism in mind, but whatever.