[Megathread] The Division 2

[Edge-]

There was a guy on reddit who did an in-depth analyzing of the drop quality on heroic over 1800 drops. There was only a 1 in 900 chance of getting a true god-rolled piece of gear(all stats max), and that wasn't even targeted loot. Just a random piece of equipment, and not even necessarily with the attributes you wanted.

On heroic.

Saw that but hadn't had a chance to read through it. It's not that I don't buy it, but I don't think that's emblematic of everything. 1/900 for all maxed stats isn't really unreasonable either, those are god-rolls and should be insanely hard to find. I've found maybe 1-2 items with god or near god-rolls, but plenty with either damn close (like 1% away) or with 1 or 2 maxed out rolls and one garbo one that I can craft over.

THAT BEING SAID, loot is still pretty boring right now and feels severely limiting. Normally I love tons of loot, and I'm not opposed to staying topped off on crafting mats, but it's just so rare that I get excited when I see drops. Exotics still hold some excitement, but not much.

Considering that you have a situation where your build may require different stats, or a different chest/backpack talent, that kind of RNG is horrendous. Then throw all the other bugs and bad balance decisions like the bullet sponge, armor not making a significant difference, etc, etc, etc....

Yes, this is a problem for me. Given how important talents are, the added RNG of "what RNG stats will I roll" plus "How good will those rolls be" plus "What talent will it have"? is too much IMO. They don't throw anywhere near enough loot at you for that, and if they did it would be an even bigger pain to manage inventory.

Uhg. It's like they WANT the game to drive players away. This isn't a subscription model game. They don't make more money the longer it takes players to accomplish anything. And I STRONGLY suspect their sales of the season 2 pass are going to hit rock bottom. Why pay for the game to get steadily worse?

We all know that's not true, even if it feels like it. I think they're just kinda lost and unsure of where to go, especially given that it seems like they need to do some structural/foundational work to address some of the issues.

I'm still sad that, like Destiny, they abandoned a game that they'd spent years getting into a good place to start over from scratch again. It's such a short-sighted business move and it really didn't benefit either game. Destiny 2 seems to have at least turned things back around, but TD2 had a decent launch and seems to have kinda fallen from there.

I just want to hear SotG streams where they focus on talking about what they think is fun and how they want to make the game more fun. Because I have a sneaking suspicion they're entirely too metrics-driven in their design, and are missing all the qualitative feedback and context that is necessary to understand the quantitative data properly.

"Oh, everyone is using the M1A Classic and it's doing a bit too much damage. That's what the numbers are telling us, so let's tone that down."

https://twitter.com/The_Spier/status...61470827765764

I don't know if it was ever "confirmed" that it was Red Storm who turned Division 1 around or not, but I do know they were apparently working on the PvP for Division 2. And apparently, the studio (or maybe just this guys team) haven't been working on the game for a while now. I'm wondering how much of the "good" came from Red Storm helping out vs. how much is Massive.

Or who bloody knows even. I just don't know how they could have launched in a pretty solid state, released an expansion that seems to have done a great job of addressing the pointlessly confusing and obtuse stats to make them easier to understand (I still have no clue what "gun handling" and "stability" and shit do though, but whatever, that's on me for being too lazy to look it up), and ended up here.

I just wish the gunplay wasn't so damn fun, because then I'd have less of a desire to play : P

[SirCowdog]

We all know that's not true, even if it feels like it. I think they're just kinda lost and unsure of where to go, especially given that it seems like they need to do some structural/foundational work to address some of the issues.

I'm still sad that, like Destiny, they abandoned a game that they'd spent years getting into a good place to start over from scratch again. It's such a short-sighted business move and it really didn't benefit either game. Destiny 2 seems to have at least turned things back around, but TD2 had a decent launch and seems to have kinda fallen from there.

I just want to hear SotG streams where they focus on talking about what they think is fun and how they want to make the game more fun. Because I have a sneaking suspicion they're entirely too metrics-driven in their design, and are missing all the qualitative feedback and context that is necessary to understand the quantitative data properly.

"Oh, everyone is using the M1A Classic and it's doing a bit too much damage. That's what the numbers are telling us, so let's tone that down."

https://twitter.com/The_Spier/status...61470827765764

I don't know if it was ever "confirmed" that it was Red Storm who turned Division 1 around or not, but I do know they were apparently working on the PvP for Division 2. And apparently, the studio (or maybe just this guys team) haven't been working on the game for a while now. I'm wondering how much of the "good" came from Red Storm helping out vs. how much is Massive.

Or who bloody knows even. I just don't know how they could have launched in a pretty solid state, released an expansion that seems to have done a great job of addressing the pointlessly confusing and obtuse stats to make them easier to understand (I still have no clue what "gun handling" and "stability" and shit do though, but whatever, that's on me for being too lazy to look it up), and ended up here.

I just wish the gunplay wasn't so damn fun, because then I'd have less of a desire to play : P

I think it's a combination of things.

There's the statement where they said they want players to have "that mountain to climb", which indicates to me that they want the game to be very hard in some respects. But I think you're correct in that they're too metric-driven. Too much design by spreadsheet.

But it makes me wonder when you have so many obvious good suggestions to the most common complaints.

• Allow recalibration of two slots instead of one. Solved. Increase the cost of the second recal if necessary to make it a serious choice(and give all those damn stockpiled crafting mats a reason to exists).
• Allow directives to increase loot drop quality the same way that upping difficult setting does across Story -> Legendary. Aren't directives added difficulty?
• Make Chests in missions(if not the open world) drop loot according to the difficulty, especially for lvl 4 CPs!

Any or all of these would go a LOOOOOONG way towards fixing the overall enjoyment of the game. If players had better access to more optimal loot, bullet sponge and damage on higher difficulties wouldn't sting as much. It would allow players to progress more smoothly. It would make harder difficulties feel more rewarding.

They're clearly willing to test sweeping changes like a 40% nerf to the most popular gun in the game. It would also take a little bit of the sting out of progress-halting bugs, or wipes on heroic. Didn't get to the end boss? Ok, at least you got some worthwhile drops, and maybe reached a chest or two. Or maybe you just want to step back to challenging and get better drops with directives to prep you for later heroic attempts. Or maybe just farm normal/hard until you get a good drop that you can recal twice to turn into a "god-rolled" piece.

I get that the work-from-home thing is likely causing difficulty. But come on!

And you're right about the gunplay. It's so damn good. I just hate to see it go to waste like this.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Recalibration issues seem to remind me of the secondary stat issues in WoW.

[Coldkil]

Also, fuck the talent (chests, I think?) that gives you special weapon ammo for your sidearm every 15 seconds. I guess it works well with the exotic holster or pistol builds, but holy crap I had a few almost decent crafted pieces last night but they all hat that worthless junk. Needed to change another stat in addition to the talent so they got dismantled like almost everything I craft. At least I have a reason to collect crafting materials again, yay!

The talent is useless as the reworked exotic holster. It's 1 single special ammo, a random one aswell so you don't even get always additional damage from it. Status effects in PvE are shit for damage, they're king of CC on specific implementations (Firefly, Chem Launcher).

The Exotic holster is pure garbage. Before WONY it was awesome as hell - it let your pistol bullets go through enemies and gave you increased damage/range. Coupled with Liberty with the old "destroy a robot and next shot does 500% damage" it was really awesome to see. I ran a Pistol DPS build even to raid and it was more than viable. Now it gives you a UBERMEGASHOT(tm) every 30 seconds or so. Which does a grand total of 5mil dmg, which is basically 2 standard shots of my M1A.

Talents right now are basically divided into 2 categories: working and useless. Any talent that gives 15% skill/weap damage is good it's only a matter how to trigger it. But everyone runs glass cannon because it's 25/30% all damage. Same goes for backpack, everyone has Vigilance because it's 25%. Intimidate is a super awesome one (30% dmg on targets in 10m? SIGN ME IN) but you need a bonus armor one on backpack = it's the same as two offensive ones, plus good luck getting near people, until you play as tank.

EDIT: as for QoL improvements that are badly needed, in my mind only a few come out:
- TTK and TTBK are wonky right now. TTK is fine, but just because TTBK is abysmal, glass cannon or not, full tank or not. Full tank/immortal builds make gameplay slow like a drag, and armor for any other build has no reason to exist at all. Reason why everyone goes full offensive.
- add talents recalibration as a secondary way to customize items. 1 stat per item is fine, things like kneepads/gloves/holster are really easy to farm. It's talents that make everything impossible, and it's the most important pieces of your gear.
- fix damn sets. They're all underpar but certain exceptions like TP and HW, with the second being meh due to how skills are right now. Striker is fun, but bugged due to hit registration. Directive is just a bad rifle build. Negotiatior is a bad crit build. The others i don't even know if someone uses them.
- make skills WORK as they're supposed to. It's not a matter of damage, but literally gameplay only. Clusters do enough damage, they DON'T HIT. Turrets are fine, but repositioning is a pain. Drone does damage, but dies too fast. Chem due to design delivers a fraction of the damage it's supposed to. Sticky is literally a big shot once every X seconds (if you hit). Shock trap/Clone are useless. Only Firefly that works is blind, and explosive to some degree, if they don't shoot at it before it gets to targets. See where i'm going?
- lastly, every single enemy is a freaking rusher with 100% blind fire accuracy and range, homing grenades spam, and deals insane damage. Archetypes have no reason to exist if this is the situation, it's all a matter of hiding and hit people in big burst to reduce danger the most. Plus, apparently heavy gunners right now can hit you through cover, as fire does.

Once these things are dealt with, we can talk numbers.

[Witchblade77]

things that annoy me.

while playing with SO and doing league stuff. finishing a timed run counts for both of us. but kills only count for whoever did the kill shot. bleeds only count for whoever managed to place one first.

its makes it more efficient to play separately instead of together to finish those stages at least :/

also... I think i'm giving up on global events. I used to like them in division 1. in 2, the only thing i like about them is that I can disable them. /end rant

[Coldkil]

things that annoy me.

while playing with SO and doing league stuff. finishing a timed run counts for both of us. but kills only count for whoever did the kill shot. bleeds only count for whoever managed to place one first.

its makes it more efficient to play separately instead of together to finish those stages at least :/

also... I think i'm giving up on global events. I used to like them in division 1. in 2, the only thing i like about them is that I can disable them. /end rant

Reason why nearly all "on kill" talents suck and are worth only solo (i can stand some of them existing to create different builds/bis lists, but there are not enough viable options right now). I actually like the events as they give me something to do different than farm items that are likely worthless.

Timed runs are definitely best done in 2. You have the advantage of not being always focused but enemies are less and no additional waves spawn.

As for the zombie event - the good old Washington Hotel trick works wonders XD I kept resetting it on the first three mobs for easy completion, also you don't need to play heroic for that. Yesterday it took like an hour to do everything, still have to check today objectives, but i suppose that if there's not something like "kill X specific faction in some fancy way", Hotel will be also today. Bunker is also a good place as the first corridor is kinda packed with people and you can reset it very fast aswell.

I know it's not the "right way" but who cares, i like to get it done fast and efficiently.

[Edge-]

So...apparently something with the patch screwed up...something in the game with movement. Seeing a lot of folks, mostly on PC, complaining about constantly running into invisible walls/ledges, especially with shields out, despite running around on flat ground with only some debris around.

Got distracted last night and forgot to log in...kinda alright with that as it sounds like whatever the hell they did with the last patch has screwed up many things -_-

[Witchblade77]

Reason why nearly all "on kill" talents suck and are worth only solo (i can stand some of them existing to create different builds/bis lists, but there are not enough viable options right now). I actually like the events as they give me something to do different than farm items that are likely worthless.

Timed runs are definitely best done in 2. You have the advantage of not being always focused but enemies are less and no additional waves spawn.

As for the zombie event - the good old Washington Hotel trick works wonders XD I kept resetting it on the first three mobs for easy completion, also you don't need to play heroic for that. Yesterday it took like an hour to do everything, still have to check today objectives, but i suppose that if there's not something like "kill X specific faction in some fancy way", Hotel will be also today. Bunker is also a good place as the first corridor is kinda packed with people and you can reset it very fast aswell.

I know it's not the "right way" but who cares, i like to get it done fast and efficiently.

honestly my problem with zombie event is not even whether its doable or not, but i'm just not having fun doing it. even timed runs have become a sort of fun for me and SO as we split the sides of the rooms, button pushing and whatnot, there is fun aspect of teamwork to it. global events are just.. not enjoyable to me. at all. that they can be cheesed like that only makes them less enjoyable. i don't want to spend my time on something I" get it over with" in a video game. get it over with - is reserved for necessary chores like paid work, laundry, dishes, cleaning, etc. not for my leisure time, you know?

edited to add. i don't know if its the related to issue above Edge mentioned... but every since the last patch, both SO and i have been having this weird glitch where suddenly the game tells us that we are out of bounds of the mission (while most definitely NOT being out of bounds) and then just force reloads us. sometimes more then once. and setting us outside of whatever combat area we were originally in. which is so much fun when doing a timed run.... it doesn't happen constantly but it happened couple of times to him and once to me so far.

[Puri]

I got a god rolled Pestilence from the event cache, but I thought meh and put it in the bank for a few days, didn't think it could compete with BK.

I tried it out, and omg this does so ridiculous high damage. How comes no one is using it? I assume it has reduced effectivness in PVP? It does insane damage on single target while allowing to remain in cover, it's mechanic is also a aoe fest and elite mobs die before they're even out if the door if you killed a stacked mob in front of it.
There is one recent streamer's video about it on youtube, that's it, while there are hundreds promoting liberty/shield builds.

I am now trying to get the dilemma chest piece, this weapon really makes it worth wearing the set.

[SirCowdog]

I got a god rolled Pestilence from the event cache,

Also got a god rolled pestilence. I mean, I can't really complain about that, because it could have been another god rolled chameleon. But it might have been nice to get an exotic I didn't already have.

- - - Updated - - -

(I still have no clue what "gun handling" and "stability" and shit do though, but whatever, that's on me for being too lazy to look it up),

It's Stability/Accuracy/Reload Speed/Weapon Swap Speed all in one stat.

But it's a funny calculation. If you have 20% weapon handling, its not 20% to each. It's 20% divided across all four of those.

So it would be like 5% to each.

Not a great stat to have, but not terrible either.

[Coldkil]

I got a god rolled Pestilence from the event cache, but I thought meh and put it in the bank for a few days, didn't think it could compete with BK.

I tried it out, and omg this does so ridiculous high damage. How comes no one is using it? I assume it has reduced effectivness in PVP? It does insane damage on single target while allowing to remain in cover, it's mechanic is also a aoe fest and elite mobs die before they're even out if the door if you killed a stacked mob in front of it.
There is one recent streamer's video about it on youtube, that's it, while there are hundreds promoting liberty/shield builds.

I am now trying to get the dilemma chest piece, this weapon really makes it worth wearing the set.

Due to how kills/assist work, it's less effective in groups than standard rifle/ar builds. But it's still awesome and does incredibly good damage, tanks are a bit wonky because as explosions apparently the dot is applied to all armor pieces thust splitting the damage - but once you break one is an automatic kill. I am running gunner/pestilence/full red and it's awesome.

Those videos are mostly about pvp. Pestilence+TP is a godlike build and shield/status immune is a good counter to all techs roaming.

[Edge-]

It's Stability/Accuracy/Reload Speed/Weapon Swap Speed all in one stat.

But it's a funny calculation. If you have 20% weapon handling, its not 20% to each. It's 20% divided across all four of those.

So it would be like 5% to each.

Not a great stat to have, but not terrible either.

Good lord, why couldn't they have explained shit like this or figured out a way to make shit more obvious when they did the stat overhaul. I can get that it might affect all stats, but knowing it splits between them? Fucking why?

It's the little things like this that make completely no sense that infuriate me so much >.<

- - - Updated - - -

https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/artic...itle-update-91

Need to give the video a watch later, but PRAISE BE it seems like they're toning down a lot of the bullshit from enemies. No more red hyena's blindfiring with 100% accuracy, no more 100% grenade accuracy, reduced damage from some shit...it's looking like it should help open up some more builds as we shouldn't be getting 2 shot every time we poke out of cover.

[SirCowdog]

Good lord, why couldn't they have explained shit like this or figured out a way to make shit more obvious when they did the stat overhaul. I can get that it might affect all stats, but knowing it splits between them? Fucking why?

It's the little things like this that make completely no sense that infuriate me so much >.<

Yeah, who knows with Massive. They have a bad habit of that sort of thing. IIRC it's a holdover from Division 1.

https://news.ubisoft.com/en-us/artic...itle-update-91

Need to give the video a watch later, but PRAISE BE it seems like they're toning down a lot of the bullshit from enemies. No more red hyena's blindfiring with 100% accuracy, no more 100% grenade accuracy, reduced damage from some shit...it's looking like it should help open up some more builds as we shouldn't be getting 2 shot every time we poke out of cover.

My main concern is that these nerfs are needed, but that they address the symptoms rather than the source. The two biggest problems with the game are player armor and loot quality. Address those and many of the other little minor issues will be mitigated or eliminated.

[Edge-]

My main concern is that these nerfs are needed, but that they address the symptoms rather than the source. The two biggest problems with the game are player armor and loot quality. Address those and many of the other little minor issues will be mitigated or eliminated.

I'm hoping they're viewing these as shorter-term fixes to address the bigger pain points while they work on larger/more comprehensive/structural fixes.

Loot though...yeah, that's a much larger fix that I can't see them doing without revisiting the stat system, and especially talents, once again.

[SirCowdog]

I'm hoping they're viewing these as shorter-term fixes to address the bigger pain points while they work on larger/more comprehensive/structural fixes.

Loot though...yeah, that's a much larger fix that I can't see them doing without revisiting the stat system, and especially talents, once again.

The quick fix would be to up minimum quality of drops based on difficulty. More so on the higher difficulties. That would somewhat mollify players who are operating at those levels while creating time to work on TU10, but without fiddling with existing balance of actual power.

I shouldn't complain too much tho. I'm sure some of these changes were necessary. It just comes across as missing the point.

- - - Updated - - -

Ok...I listened to tje actual SOTG instead of some youtuber recap. It's a little more hopeful than I first thought.

The changes that seem like they'll be most helpful:

• The increased accuracy of player blindfire combined with smaller player hitbox while doing so. This should let you get some damage in while not being completely exposed. We'll have to see how it works in actual gameplay tho.
• Player deployed skills taking less damage from enemies should hopefully aid skill builds, especially turrets and drones. Heavies supposedly won't charge turrets/hives as much.
• Status damage doing more to NPCs might help, although heavies will still be annoying in that regard, and warhounds/mini-tanks are still immune.
• Explody-drone spam from black tusk will happen less, and do less damage. Thank fuck.
• Nade spam will be less accurate at longer ranges. But close up will still be a problem. Meh....I rarely get hit by those except for the warhound triple bomb anyway.
• Hyena SMG dudes will no longer be firing super depleted uranium rounds, and will do normal damage. XD.

Seems like mostly smoothing things out rather than big changes. But again, it remains to be seen hownit actually effects the gameplay.

[Coldkil]

-snip-

These changes are what make the game frustrating right now - while you have only a handful of effective builds, especially solo, the main issue was the danger the enemy posed so any time spent playting tactical just meant time lost and risk of death increased. Hopefully they'll also fix heavies hitting you through cover and check that damn hit registration that's plaguing the game (just equip striker and see how stacks actually behave).

@Edge- loot is still going to be the same more or less (i don't exclude adjustments maybe to underpar weapons) but TU10 will be focused on loot/gear. Counting that 9.1 comes next tuesday, that should make things bearable. IIRC TU10 is planned for june.

EDIT: didn't play yesterday, only to discover the event objectives are the easiest so far XD I'll probably buckle up and do all of them tonight.

[SirCowdog]

These changes are what make the game frustrating right now - while you have only a handful of effective builds, especially solo, the main issue was the danger the enemy posed so any time spent playting tactical just meant time lost and risk of death increased. Hopefully they'll also fix heavies hitting you through cover and check that damn hit registration that's plaguing the game (just equip striker and see how stacks actually behave).

@Edge- loot is still going to be the same more or less (i don't exclude adjustments maybe to underpar weapons) but TU10 will be focused on loot/gear. Counting that 9.1 comes next tuesday, that should make things bearable. IIRC TU10 is planned for june.

EDIT: didn't play yesterday, only to discover the event objectives are the easiest so far XD I'll probably buckle up and do all of them tonight.

I don't disagree. I just don't have a lot of trust in Massive, especially when they're kicking the problem down the road like this.

--------------

I still had the most fun with polarity. I was hoping for more actual zombie-like behavior rather than enemies just getting back up with 25% health and acting normal.

It's still fun tho.

[Coldkil]

I don't disagree. I just don't have a lot of trust in Massive, especially when they're kicking the problem down the road like this.

--------------

I still had the most fun with polarity. I was hoping for more actual zombie-like behavior rather than enemies just getting back up with 25% health and acting normal.

It's still fun tho.

Agree - i don't trust them much but the actually managed to make the dumpster fire D1 was into a good game. Still baffles me how they decided to make a D2 instead of making Washington an expansion (maybe cut in two parts) and working their way through that. It would have just worked.

About the event: the first 2 days of challenges are kind of a grind, but nothing that can't be solved with Washington Hotel. The last 2 days are pretty fast and not a trouble at all. So enjoy your exotic cache - really hope for a godrolled Pestilence. I love that weapon.

EDIT: just got to my mind - why the hell there are no more weapon mods for skill users? Something like the techincian underbarrel that applies pulse. They could make soime optics that increase skill/status dmg on hit, or increase skill haste, whatever. As a tech, you only have the gear stats and they are just flat increases, while weapon users have a lot of different effects that stack in various ways. Would make for a more interesting and balanced environment.

[SirCowdog]

really hope for a godrolled Pestilence. I love that weapon.

I have two. I'll trade you for a bullet king. XD

EDIT: just got to my mind - why the hell there are no more weapon mods for skill users? Something like the techincian underbarrel that applies pulse. They could make soime optics that increase skill/status dmg on hit, or increase skill haste, whatever. As a tech, you only have the gear stats and they are just flat increases, while weapon users have a lot of different effects that stack in various ways. Would make for a more interesting and balanced environment.

Because they designed a shooter first, and tacked on skills afterwords.

TU10 is supposed to bring not only the rebalance of current weapons, but supposedly new talents and gear sets to make hybrids more viable. We'll have to wait and see what that actually looks like, I guess.

[Coldkil]

TU10 is supposed to bring not only the rebalance of current weapons, but supposedly new talents and gear sets to make hybrids more viable. We'll have to wait and see what that actually looks like, I guess.

Yeah, next tuesday i suppose heroic will become basically free farming. I may even get back to 4 directives on. Which is not entirely a bad thing.

TU10 should be where the real deal comes. They better make a good job on that otherwise i don't see many players going for the premium season pass = no revenue and game development gets cut.