DHS Secretary Nielsen Shamed Out of Mexican Restaurant by DHS Activists

[keyblade01]

Absolutely. It's why the end-point of this issue should not simply end with ICE not separating families anymore, but with the complete dissolution of the organization, as well as the entire DHS. Both were created during GWBs first term, and both have proven to be toxic to the core, and need to be entirely removed.

While I disagree with you, if you wanted that to happen it would have to go through congress. Harassing a law-enforcement agent isn't going to change the law. If anything, harass the lawmakers.

[javen]

Well those pictures are taken during his administration so I really don't have to.

It's a fair question, because intent does matter. The motivation behind what is happening now was admitted to be used as a deterrent. This is not 'our hands are tied, and we have no better options, we have to follow the law'. This is 'we're intentionally interpreting the law this way and treating these people terribly, to pre-emptively deter future immigration.

Actually rounding people up is incredibly time and labor intensive, to say nothing of expensive. So, the suggested conservative strategy is to basically make coming to, and living in the US as an immigrant, legal or not, so hellish and unbearable, that they'll either leave of their own accord, or never come here to begin with.

So comparing one admin to another is still a pretty big false equivalence, unless you're also able to compare the mentalities between the two

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...528-story.html

[Kathandira]

if i were a politician, i could only hope i'd get the chance to face down these dogs.

i wouldn't leave, i would laugh in their faces, and when they inevitably assault me, my secret service would handle it and i'd sue them into nothingness.

Better than the old days. Back a few hundred years ago, she would had been dragged out of her house and hung in the middle of town, along with the rest who had a hand in this. She is fortunate that we have progressed enough to simply harass her out.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

What a great way to participate in a liberal democracy and not make yourself look like an extremist.

When the President of the USA uses the same, and worse, tactics to get his politics across I think it's completely fine that Trumps appointees get hounded out when they lie to protect him. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

[petej0]

Yes, actually. The current administration interpreting and co-opting a law to knowingly do harm beyond what is reasonable or correct is completely worthy of outrage.

Did you know that police suspect that any of your private assets, be it your car, your home, or just straight up cash, was used in, or played a role in a crime, they can just take it? They don't even need to prove it in court later, they can just take your shit and never give it back. That's not what civil forfeiture was DESIGNED to do, but if they did so, it would be perfectly legal. If you want it back, the onus is on YOU to prove that it WASN'T part of any crime.

Legality is a dumb and bad way to justify whether or not something should be done. Concentration camps in Germany were legal. Slavery was legal, as was the taxes that ultimately drove the American Revolution.

Grow up.

The Flores Consent Decree (1997 JENNY LISETTE FLORES vs JANET RENO, Attorney General of the United States ninth circuit court) states that Children can only be detained for 20 days. So if they come as part of a "family unit" that is detained for longer then 20 days the children have to be separated.

That is bullshit.

Sure, when it doesnt fit the narrative.

The problem is when adults come across with children claiming to be a family unit. We must separate them in order to determine if this is the case. If we just detain them together there is no stopping people from kidnapping kids from south america just to enter as a "family" unit.

- - - Updated - - -

No, they're not. Whoever told you this lied to you. Most of the time, the parents are merely being deported, with absolutely no mechanism on the part of ICE to reunite the families.

Are there any sources?

[Enthusiastic Steward]

if i were a politician, i could only hope i'd get the chance to face down these dogs.

i wouldn't leave, i would laugh in their faces, and when they inevitably assault me, my secret service would handle it and i'd sue them into nothingness.

You're going to need to be more specific, as the Secret Service does not protect 'politicians', only a few select positions and even that is by decree and subject to change. They only by law protect current and former Presidents and Vice Presidents and their families, along with the President and Vice President elect should there be one. Some cabinet members and positions a little further down in the line of Presidential succession are typically afforded Secret Service protection, but just being 'politician' doesn't cut it.

Also:

with some fascist beliefs.

i just hate these thought-policing dogs,

Control of freedom is integral to Fascism, so... like, what?

[kbtdadap]

Oh yes, it's much better to separate children from their parents, put them in cages, and hold the hostage as political token for useless twittery like a wall.

That's what real, centrist, democracy loving people do.

If you are an american citizen and commit a crime so that you must serve prison time, where do your children go? what happens to them when you are in prison?

[keyblade01]

It's a fair question, because intent does matter. The motivation behind what is happening now was admitted to be used as a deterrent. This is not 'our hands are tied, and we have no better options, we have to follow the law'. This is 'we're intentionally interpreting the law this way and treating these people terribly, to pre-emptively deter future immigration.

Actually rounding people up is incredibly time and labor intensive, to say nothing of expensive. So, the suggested conservative strategy is to basically make coming to, and living in the US as an immigrant, legal or not, so hellish and unbearable, that they'll either leave of their own accord, or never come here to begin with.

So comparing one admin to another is still a pretty big false equivalence, unless you're also able to compare the mentalities between the two

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/o...528-story.html

The problem is, with the current laws on the books there are only two options. 1. Enforce the law as it is written. 2. Have an open border. I do believe Trump believes his hands are tied. He promised the people who got him elected that he would bring immigration reform and border security. The only option from his PoV and the viewpoint of his supporter is force congress to change the laws (its their job!) instead of continuing to attempt to sidestep our immigration laws that are CLEARLY broken. It only makes the problem worse kicking the can down the road. Congress can change the law TODAY right now, but no one is putting pressure on them including the media. Why is that?

[Cruor]

Only on this forum I can see so many people boast about being poorly educated.

1 : any of various economic and political theories advocating collective or governmental ownership and administration of the means of production and distribution of goods
2 a : a system of society or group living in which there is no private property
b : a system or condition of society in which the means of production are owned and controlled by the state
3 : a stage of society in Marxist theory transitional between capitalism and communism and distinguished by unequal distribution of goods and pay according to work done

In other words, stuff is taken from people who have stuff and given to the people who don't, meaning, my property and money go to bums. I know exactly what it means and why so many people on MMO Champion like it. It would allow them to do nothing and live. Fuck sharing for nothing. If I have 2 sandwiches and you have two drinks, THEN we can share. If I have 2 sandwiches and you have nothing, tough luck for you.

[javen]

While I disagree with you, if you wanted that to happen it would have to go through congress. Harassing a law-enforcement agent isn't going to change the law. If anything, harass the lawmakers.

Again, no. This is incorrect. An announcement was made by the Department of Justice and Homeland Security that, going forward, this would be done. It then stands to reason that an announcement can just as easily be made to say 'we're not doing this anymore.' That they choose not to is entirely on them, as much as I'm sure they'd like to deflect any responsibility elsewhere.

It's something you often see in situations of domestic abuse. The abuser claims they were 'forced' to be violent, due to the conduct of the abused. It's a pretty common method to avoid dealing with ones actions, when they know that they were wrong.

[JohnBrown1917]

Sure, when it doesnt fit the narrative.

The problem is when adults come across with children claiming to be a family unit. We must separate them in order to determine if this is the case. If we just detain them together there is no stopping people from kidnapping kids from south america just to enter as a "family" unit.

- - - Updated - - -

You must have missed the part where they don't get re-united.

- - - Updated - - -

If you are an american citizen and commit a crime so that you must serve prison time, where do your children go? what happens to them when you are in prison?

Its normal to put kids of criminals in concentration camps?

[javen]

The problem is, with the current laws on the books there are only two options. 1. Enforce the law as it is written. 2. Have an open border. I do believe Trump believes his hands are tied. He promised the people who got him elected that he would bring immigration reform and border security. The only option from his PoV and the viewpoint of his supporter is force congress to change the laws (its their job!) instead of continuing to attempt to sidestep our immigration laws that are CLEARLY broken. It only makes the problem worse kicking the can down the road. Congress can change the law TODAY right now, but no one is putting pressure on them including the media. Why is that?

Then you believe wrong. That's really all there is to it. We didn't have an open border before Sessions announcement, and the law is only being read this way now, so there is, at the very least a third option: 'don't do that thing'

The crime being committed is still a misdemeanor, and was previously handled in civil court, instead of a criminal one, so it didn't involve the separation of families. Trump is actively choosing to treat these as criminal citations instead, so it's not 'my hands are tied' when you're making a conscious effort to handle something differently.

[Uncle]

Really hope people go down hard on ICE agents, block the streets they use, harass them, shame them, do whatever.

- - - Updated - - -



This is the problem with liberalism, it just accepts concentration camps and fascist policies.

- - - Updated - - -



That is far right, but at least you're honest.

I find it extremely funny you are saing that; if i recall, this was EXACTLY what were doing the fascists and the nazis during the 1930's.
Oh shit, that also what was doing the commies in URSS, you know, the criminal political ideology you are advocating in every one of your posts, posing as an antifascist while you are in fact a true fascist.

But i suppose you will shrug it off, because you are from the "good side", so you have the moral ground.

When the President of the USA uses the same, and worse, tactics to get his politics across I think it's completely fine that Trumps appointees get hounded out when they lie to protect him. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem.

But, but, but...
So because you THINK Trump is doing dirty things, it gives you the right to harass people? You are an hypocrit, just like the others here; you think you are "doing the right thing", so you can act as badly as you want, just because "but, but, but, the far-right, but they are bad guys !"

If you want to change things, stop being an hypocrit and try to have some dignity for once.

[Belize]

If you are an american citizen and commit a crime so that you must serve prison time, where do your children go? what happens to them when you are in prison?

Another member of the family.

Also, for the umpteenth time, illegal immigration is, 99.9% of the time, a misdemeanor, and in the U.S. we don't take away children for misdemeanors.

[javen]

If you are an american citizen and commit a crime so that you must serve prison time, where do your children go? what happens to them when you are in prison?

Irrelevant. It's quite rare that misdemeanors are given jail time, especially with no prior convictions.

[Delana]

Say that to the deplorables who are holding these kids to blackmail the democrats into signing their shitty immigration policy.

You realize that this is a democratic law, right? Trump can either enforce the law as it is written, or prostitute our country to anyone that wants to cross the border.

Oh sorry. I know you'd be all for the latter option.

- - - Updated - - -

Absolutely. It's why the end-point of this issue should not simply end with ICE not separating families anymore, but with the complete dissolution of the organization, as well as the entire DHS. Both were created during GWBs first term, and both have proven to be toxic to the core, and need to be entirely removed.

Why don't you just say that we shouldn't have borders or immigration laws? At least that would be honest. Most people would not agree with you.

I can't feel sorry for someone that knowingly breaks the law and has to pay the established consequences. Is that somehow a problem for you?

[Culex]

Jesus fucking christ just boot the kids out along with the parents, how fucking hard is that?

[javen]

I find it extremely funny you are saing that; if i recall, this was EXACTLY what were doing the fascists and the nazis during the 1930's.
Oh shit, that also what was doing the commies in URSS, you know, the criminal political ideology you are advocating in every one of your posts, posing as an antifascist while you are in fact a true fascist.

But i suppose you will shrug it off, because you are from the "good side", so you have the moral ground.



But, but, but...
So because you THINK Trump is doing dirty things, it gives you the right to harass people? You are an hypocrit, just like the others here; you think you are "doing the right thing", so you can act as badly as you want, just because "but, but, but, the far-right, but they are bad guys !"

If you want to change things, stop being an hypocrit and try to have some dignity for once.

There's a term for what you're doing, it's called 'the paradox of tolerance'. It's the paradox that basically says 'tolerant people, must also be intolerant of intolerance, otherwise they will be destroyed by the interolant'. It was first penned by Karl Popper right after WW2, when, oddly enough, people had the idea of actively fighting intolerance on the brain. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

Your call-out about hypocricy is bullshit, because fascism doesn't target people for what they've done. It targets them for who they are. Like Jews, or Roma, or Mexicans. Harassing someone because of things they've done, if that thing is reprehensible, is completely justified. Is it okay to harass someone if they beat their spouse? If they kick their dog? If they knowingly abuse people to defer immigration?

THE ANSWER IS YES

[zorkuus]

You realize that this is a democratic law, right? Trump can either enforce the law as it is written, or prostitute our country to anyone that wants to cross the border.

There is no law that require to seperate children from their parents. Don't confuse this zero tolerance policy of this administration with a law.

[Toppy]

Irrelevant. It's quite rare that misdemeanors are given jail time, especially with no prior convictions.

Oh how funny it would be if the solution here is to reclassify illegal immigration as something stronger than a misdemeanor to warrent the children taken away.