Templates officially gone ?

[Deleted]

Sooo I can’t find any sources to confirm this.
Developers said pvp gear will matter again not just simply item level, but they never said templates gone(just they went far with it).
So it’s truly gone or they working on that ?
I don’t have beta access so I had to ask

[Kralljin]

At Blizzcon they said they want to tone down the impact of Templates.
But as of right now, no Templates are active on Beta.

Just to be clear on that, right now the Beta runs under the "Vanilla" System, no Resilience, no PvP Power, no Template.

[Mafic]

No templates right now on beta.

[Deleted]

Templates aren't really gone. They have been replaced by the so-called "auras" which offer every class/spec a specific bonus to both damage and healing. Blizzard can easily adjust this aura as the balance requires.

[Kagthul]

Templates aren't really gone. They have been replaced by the so-called "auras" which offer every class/spec a specific bonus to both damage and healing. Blizzard can easily adjust this aura as the balance requires.

This doesn't and hasn't ever worked. Every time they tweaked the templates, they still had to go in and manually adjust a bunch of individual abilities anyway. You cant blanket-tune. It doesn't work.

[Lothaeryn]

At Blizzcon they said they want to tone down the impact of Templates.
But as of right now, no Templates are active on Beta.

Just to be clear on that, right now the Beta runs under the "Vanilla" System, no Resilience, no PvP Power, no Template.

if thats true when it goes live, PvP might actually be enjoyable again. As long as player damage output isn't nerfed by a high margin in pvp

[Kralljin]

if thats true when it goes live, PvP might actually be enjoyable again. As long as player damage output isn't nerfed by a high margin in pvp

Well, if you like to one shot people, then yeah.
Blizzard basically went on a 14 year circle if they remove both.
Those Systems were introduced for a reason, how people think having less tuning knobs makes things better is beyond me.

I played on the Beta PvP Server a few skirmishes recently, personal highlight was seeing my healer (disc) dying to Ret and Unholy Dk within less than 4 seconds.

[ilik2345]

Yeah, not had a chance to log into the pvp server yet, will do some point this week. I suspect the damage will be absurdly high - there was a reason they removed set bonuses and certain trinkets from pvp in the past.

I honestly wish they would go back to resilience, but i guess that would mean extra work in making specific gear with resilience - and from what i can see of this expansion every design choice has been to lighten the work load on blizzard rather then enhancing the players experience.

[Kralljin]

I honestly wish they would go back to resilience, but i guess that would mean extra work in making specific gear with resilience - and from what i can see of this expansion every design choice has been to lighten the work load on blizzard rather then enhancing the players experience.

By itself, it's far easier to design than the template one.

However, you then also had to bring back PvP Power, Ilvl scaling to ensure PvE Gear in PvP is not a thing, and so forth.
The whole idea of the Resilience System was balance and the idea that everyone wears PvP Gear in PvP.

And it took Blizzard until MoP(!) to finally get rid of PvE Gear in PvP, partially by also blocking the effect of certain trinkets / weapons working in PvP.

The general idea of the template system was having being able to tune specs individually (which you never could really do with Resilience), even the field with players w/o gear and to remove the distinction between PvP and PvE Gear.

Problem was that they deleted any sort of progression from PvP due the horrible reward structure of Legion PvP, there was no reason to PvP from a progression PoV unless you were interested in Mounts or achievements, PvE gear was far easier to acquire and better than your usual PvP rewards.
Personal guess of my mine is that Blizzard wanted attract new people with this system, but kept the reward system bad to prevent:

1.PvE Players do not feel "forced" into PvP for rewards.
2.Prevent another BC where everybody and their mothers used random bg's to get easy S1 / S2 gear, whereas getting into Normal dungeons => Heroics => Raids was a lengthy task and S1 / S2 was pretty much on T4 / T5 level.
(Or just played 10 games each week to buy some Gladiator Item after a few weeks)

[ilik2345]

By itself, it's far easier to design than the template one.

Problem was that they deleted any sort of progression from PvP due the horrible reward structure of Legion PvP, there was no reason to PvP from a progression PoV unless you were interested in Mounts or achievements, PvE gear was far easier to acquire and better than your usual PvP rewards.
Personal guess of my mine is that Blizzard wanted attract new people with this system, but kept the reward system bad to prevent:

1.PvE Players do not feel "forced" into PvP for rewards.
2.Prevent another BC where everybody and their mothers used random bg's to get easy S1 / S2 gear, whereas getting into Normal dungeons => Heroics => Raids was a lengthy task and S1 / S2 was pretty much on T4 / T5 level.
(Or just played 10 games each week to buy some Gladiator Item after a few weeks)

I too feel this is what they are doing, though i am still of the opinion that most of these changes are from the business perspective of keeping wow ticking along while putting in the minimum financial investment - but thats another matter.

The problem with the approach above is the opposite is true, It feels worse having to run instances / raids to get gear for pvp - and i mean worse because there its not slower in pvp, pve is the only option. I say this because gear bracketing system sucks for the simple reason over 99% people who do rated (not even considering most of pvp'ers just dabble in unrated) will never get 2.4k rating (i think i2.4 is top 1% of arena and about 0.5% of rbgs), and even if you are lucky enough to get that bracket blizzard stated they want mythic raids to reward best gear, so all we can hope for is heroic raid level gear for the very best rated people.

[GodEmperor]

So do PvE proc trinkets work in PvP now? I kind of miss having cool procs in PvP, stuff like Gurthalak, rogue cata legendary. But it was a big advantage back then.

[Kralljin]

and even if you are lucky enough to get that bracket blizzard stated they want mythic raids to reward best gear, so all we can hope for is heroic raid level gear for the very best rated people.

The Legion PvP gearing system was just horrible and utterly disregarded that PvE is now an option as well.

To put this into perspective: Your weekly reward at 2k is a 950 piece.
That is just barely above what drops in Antorus heroic (945), at 2k you get the freaking Elite armor, 2k takes a lot more effort than to down any boss in Antorus on heroic and you only get a single guaranteed item per week whereas PvE get like ~2-3 pieces per run (Personal Loot).

Fuck it, put this into perspective of M+, doing a single +15 yields a 960 item per week, you need like 2,1-2,2k for that, how hard is a +15? Not nearly as difficult or time consuming as 2,2k in RBG or Arena.

I like the template system, i like PvE=PvP Gear, but fuck me, there is literally no reason to do PvP as average player unless you *really* enjoy it.
No surprise so many people dropped pvp, it's a self defeating system where you are rewarded with better gear for PvP by not doing PvP.

[dacoolist]

The Legion PvP gearing system was just horrible and utterly disregarded that PvE is now an option as well.

To put this into perspective: Your weekly reward at 2k is a 950 piece.
That is just barely above what drops in Antorus heroic (945), at 2k you get the freaking Elite armor, 2k takes a lot more effort than to down any boss in Antorus on heroic and you only get a single guaranteed item per week whereas PvE get like ~2-3 pieces per run (Personal Loot).

Fuck it, put this into perspective of M+, doing a single +15 yields a 960 item per week, you need like 2,1-2,2k for that, how hard is a +15? Not nearly as difficult or time consuming as 2,2k in RBG or Arena.

I like the template system, i like PvE=PvP Gear, but fuck me, there is literally no reason to do PvP as average player unless you *really* enjoy it.
No surprise so many people dropped pvp, it's a self defeating system where you are rewarded with better gear for PvP by not doing PvP.

100% agreed, and hopefully some of this was taken care of because I'm rocking 976 ilvl with MAX iLVL gear from PVE, and R1 Glads arent even close to me... btw, I literally have NO Mythic Raiding gear on, I have mythic dungeon weekly chest titanforged, and heroic titanforged gear only - aka, People at 2k work WAY harder than clearing heroic argus haha

[ilik2345]

Even assuming your lucky enough to know good people to play with, and can get high rating the time required to get a similar reward to the one on mythics is not even close.

lets assume +10 gives top rewards,

worse case you have no key, 3-4 runs and you should have completed that key assuming your group is fairly decent.

to get 2.4k - hm, lets say you win 30 games, lets say you win 75% because you have a really damn good team (think top 1% of players) so you played 45 games, you get the same reward playing those 45 games that week as the person who did 4 dungeons...

[Deleted]

fuck templates they solved NOTHING at the cost of removing player choice!

If I want to play a full haste build or a full mastery or whatever the fuck LET ME!

[Kralljin]

fuck templates they solved NOTHING at the cost of removing player choice!

Legion was probably one of the few expansions where a broad line of specs were viable in rated PvP (RBG, 3v3 or both).
It's not just a single Warlock spec was viable, but basically all of them, similiar thing goes for a lot of other classes, you just had to adjust your comp.

The Template system allowed to give a clearer distinction not just between classes but also between specs, Fury is a totally different world than Arms.

Solely based on that, i call the template system a success.

If I want to play a full haste build or a full mastery or whatever the fuck LET ME!

You do realize that even before the Template system, Blizzards intention was that you could only choose between different rings / offset items, which all were limited to like choosing between two items on a single slot, because wearing full pvp gear was always the intention of the system.

Honestly, i remember going "full haste" for funzies back in WoD and gained like 8% Haste, hardly noticed a difference.

[Deleted]

yes no yes no yes no yes no

[Kagthul]

Solely based on that, i call the template system a success.

So based on a thing that less than 5% of the player base even participates in, that was so universally disliked that it led to an EIGHTY PERCENT falloff in both rated and unrated PvP participation...

you call it a success.

Yeah, some success.

[Nuba]

Legion was probably one of the few expansions where a broad line of specs were viable in rated PvP (RBG, 3v3 or both).
It's not just a single Warlock spec was viable, but basically all of them, similiar thing goes for a lot of other classes, you just had to adjust your comp.

The Template system allowed to give a clearer distinction not just between classes but also between specs, Fury is a totally different world than Arms.

Solely based on that, i call the template system a success.



You do realize that even before the Template system, Blizzards intention was that you could only choose between different rings / offset items, which all were limited to like choosing between two items on a single slot, because wearing full pvp gear was always the intention of the system.

Honestly, i remember going "full haste" for funzies back in WoD and gained like 8% Haste, hardly noticed a difference.

legion was also the lowest point ever achieved in PvP in world of warcraft.
solely based on that, I call the template system a utter and complete failure. worse: they were a disaster.

you're overthinking this like an artschool teenage student, just try to think on the "templates were very unfun, so they had to be removed" side, its easy to understand.

[Mafic]

Spec rep shouldn't be the only measure as you had good spec rep in MoP/WotLK too. PVP was far more enjoyable in MoP and WotLK compared to Legion.

Legion PVP was a giant experiment in general and it simply didn't work out. I am not sure what they are going to do with PVP gearing for BFA or how they are going to fill gaps of several specs propped up by templates. Several honor talents probably should be base lined as some specs need help in PVE too (eg shamans).