"The team is excited about the improvements to the gearing system"

[Mafic]

The game hasn't gone live yet, so you have absolutely no clue what is going to happen. It is beyond idiotic to make claims of fact what is going to happen in a game that hasn't even been released yet.

This isn't hard to figure out as weapon scarcity will become a reality again with BFA compared to Legion. BTW that is the problem on beta but yes I will watch the QQ storm unfold on live. Personal loot is a way for Blizz to make it more punishing and time consuming for all players whether they are PVE or PVP players. Which is why I would not be surprised to see more PVE players doing PVP in BFA to obtain a guaranteed weapon upgrade as PVE gear progression in BFA seems broken with personal loot changes.

[rrayy]

This isn't hard to figure out as weapon scarcity will become a reality again with BFA compared to Legion. BTW that is the problem on beta but yes I will watch the QQ storm unfold on live. Personal loot is a way for Blizz to make it more punishing and time consuming for all players whether they are PVE or PVP players. Which is why I would not be surprised to see more PVE players doing PVP in BFA to obtain a guaranteed weapon upgrade as PVE gear progression in BFA seems broken with personal loot changes.

Again, the game hasn't been released yet you you cannot in any way makes statements of facts in regards to what will happen in it. Nobody has done any progression raiding yet for this exapansion so you cannot say how it will go.

[Mafic]

Again, the game hasn't been released yet you you cannot in any way makes statements of facts in regards to what will happen in it. Nobody has done any progression raiding yet for this exapansion so you cannot say how it will go.

We know what progression looks like in non Legion expansions and with weapon scarcity. This isn't the first expansion where there will be weapon scarcity and multiple specs will be competing for the same weapon upgrades.

[Deleted]

I think the optimal solution would be having a system where, if everyone in the raid is from the same guild it is masterloot, but if it’s mixed people it switches to personal loot.

[Roy]

From my observation, there has been a pretty substantial effort to slow down several aspects of the game. Personal Loot, all the drama with the GCD, changes to classes in the interest to slow down aspects of the game. I'm a pretty big fan of Master Loot.. and seeing the direction that Blizzard is going attempting to slow things down, I don't see Personal Loot going away.. at least for the next tier.

Slowing down progression for everyone across the board because of the inability to optimize may be exactly what Blizzard is going for. The World First Race will be much slower for sure.. all in the effort to make content last longer perhaps? Just speculation, but makes a lot of sense from that PoV.

[burek]

Slowing down progression for everyone across the board because of the inability to optimize may be exactly what Blizzard is going for. The World First Race will be much slower for sure.. all in the effort to make content last longer perhaps? Just speculation, but makes a lot of sense from that PoV.

World first race is not going to be any longer. They are not going to tune bosses to be unkillable. When the race didn't last the wanted week or two in legion they admitted they fucked up, and fixed tuning for the next tier. That happened with EN being undertuned, and with ToS being overtuned. And slowing down progression for everyone? Definitely not. You are going to get more loot than ever before. For example, have you heard that the weekly chest drops 2-3 items now? Even more free mythic loot for everyone.

[nocturnus]

World first race is not going to be any longer.

It most certainly won't and even if it did, no one really cares except a marginal, negligible part of the player base. Especially from a financial point of view.

The fact that the same handful of neonates keept broaching this subject in various threads, shows as much.

[ceall]

I think the optimal solution would be having a system where, if everyone in the raid is from the same guild it is masterloot, but if it’s mixed people it switches to personal loot.

So basically the way it is RIGHT NOW.

80%+ of one guild = free to choose between ML and PL
Less than 80% of one guild = PL only.

I don't understand these anti-ML people. It doesn't affect them, as these kinds of people are either:
-Only Pugging or
-Haven't been in a guild since at least cata (which was the last time that I have come across ninja-looting. And that was in tol barad pugs, before PL has even existed.) or
-Are LFR heroes.

Never change a running system, you know?

We people, that are FOR ML, are in no way against PL, we actually like it for its intended use, IN PUGS! What we are against, is being forced into PL, because it hinders progression raiding by not being able to allocate the drops to where it benefits the entire group the most.

Of course, there are black sheep, but those are few and may be counted on 2 hands.

[kamuimac]

"Cars are involved with drunk drivers, so we take cars away from EVERYONE! How do we know this is perfect? Because if there are no cars then no one can ever be a drunk driver!"

That was satire, btw. But that's the kind of logic people are using to defend removing personal loot. All they're looking at is the one benefit, while completely ignoring everything else that cars do when used responsibly and correctly.

kinda weak satire seeing how autonomic driving cars are something what most people will be driving in in around 15-20 years time

- - - Updated - - -

So basically the way it is RIGHT NOW.

80%+ of one guild = free to choose between ML and PL
Less than 80% of one guild = PL only.

I don't understand these anti-ML people. It doesn't affect them, as these kinds of people are either:
-Only Pugging or
-Haven't been in a guild since at least cata (which was the last time that I have come across ninja-looting. And that was in tol barad pugs, before PL has even existed.) or
-Are LFR heroes.

Never change a running system, you know?

We people, that are FOR ML, are in no way against PL, we actually like it for its intended use, IN PUGS! What we are against, is being forced into PL, because it hinders progression raiding by not being able to allocate the drops to where it benefits the entire group the most.

Of course, there are black sheep, but those are few and may be counted on 2 hands.

you dont understand since you have no clue on managins stuff - dont worry most people dont.

they have no choice but to change it exackly because its only thing which can bring people back to guilds - atm most of people actively avoid being in guild or doin activities with guilds exackly because of how toxic and abusive they appear to them.

your "running system" has failed so it has to be replaced before whole "system" aka game crashes badly

- - - Updated - - -

World first race is not going to be any longer. They are not going to tune bosses to be unkillable. When the race didn't last the wanted week or two in legion they admitted they fucked up, and fixed tuning for the next tier. That happened with EN being undertuned, and with ToS being overtuned. And slowing down progression for everyone? Definitely not. You are going to get more loot than ever before. For example, have you heard that the weekly chest drops 2-3 items now? Even more free mythic loot for everyone.

world first race never was - you had like 200 people writing in 1 thread on 1 forum about it - meaning nobody really gave a fuck at any point of time.

it was always meaningless

MDI is their first hardcore system that worked out well and brough in people to watch .

[LilSaihah]

I don't know if there's really a problem with it.

It doesn't seem like it'd really affect much for the progression race. You might be stuck with the lame loot system but so is everyone else.
I don't know if it kills split runs. You still want to run the raids on as many alts as possible as much as possible, just in case one breaks ahead of the pack.
It means Daggers, and soon Glaives, won't make you go "fucking hell why did this boss drop 3 daggers, we have one fucking rogue in the raid".

Really it seems like most of the issue would be solved by "you cannot get an equal-modded duplicate of any item". Your chances of the raid getting trash loot would drop pretty quickly.

[RobertoCarlos]

does anyone think they can turn it around with BFA? I really want to play it but my expectation of it is just at 0 and it looks to be worse than WoD

[SirCowdog]

kinda weak satire seeing how autonomic driving cars are something what most people will be driving in in around 15-20 years time

It was to point out the ridiculousness of the "solution". Taking away all options from everyone because a few people screwed up is a bad solution that's wholly and completely out of proportion with the initial issue. The scale is off. The response is overkill.

Citing the handful of situations where something bad resulted from Master Loot is NOT justification for removing it from all other situations. Here are some more ridiculous situations to illustrate:

You tripped on the stairs once as a kid. Better remove ALL stairs!
You dropped a cheeto on the ground...whelp..guess nobody can ever eat cheetos ever again.
You bumped into someone while walking. There's no other solution but to put everyone in jail so no one could ever bump into anyone.
You once loaned a friend $5 and they never paid you back. Time to get rid of money for everyone.

This is what removing ML is doing. A tiny fraction of people abused it, and now it's being removed for everyone, including the vast majority of people who were using it responsibly, or just didn't use it in the first place because they chose not to.

The fact that you still don't understand this simple point just underscores how short-sighted and selfish your point of view is.

[RiiSEN]

In my opinion the killing of split raids is a good thing. Not sure there was another way they could do it without kick-back towards standard raiding cores but I think the change is overall fine.

[rebecca191]

In my opinion the killing of split raids is a good thing. Not sure there was another way they could do it without kick-back towards standard raiding cores but I think the change is overall fine.

They could have allowed ML in mythic only. Bye bye 99% of split raids.

[Mafic]

does anyone think they can turn it around with BFA? I really want to play it but my expectation of it is just at 0 and it looks to be worse than WoD

They bailed on WoD by patch 6.2 so I would wait to see what they do with the second patch in BFA.

[RobertoCarlos]

They bailed on WoD by patch 6.2 so I would wait to see what they do with the second patch in BFA.

yeah thats a good point. Patch 8.1 and 8.2 will be very telling of BFA's fate.

May as well wait and see what they do with the content patches.

[SirCowdog]

In my opinion the killing of split raids is a good thing. Not sure there was another way they could do it without kick-back towards standard raiding cores but I think the change is overall fine.

Not entirely sure the change WILL kill split raids. I mean, guilds could still stack alts of the same class to fish for certain drops of the same type. All the classes that use the same weapon type or armor type stack up.

Azerite drops will interfere with that, as will TF, so it won't be as efficient as a ML split raid. Will that stop super hard core guild though? Probably not.

[Cosmic Janitor]

Not entirely sure the change WILL kill split raids. I mean, guilds could still stack alts of the same class to fish for certain drops of the same type. All the classes that use the same weapon type or armor type stack up.

Azerite drops will interfere with that, as will TF, so it won't be as efficient as a ML split raid. Will that stop super hard core guild though? Probably not.

Since you can't trade upgrades this will hinder split raids in the early weeks alot though, you can't change where the gear goes and an upgrade usually will not be tradeable as well as TFing is supposed to be rarer this time around, so not everyone will already have TF pieces which are better. I only see it working once everyone is actually equipped and that in turn just means that people might not bother, they will obviously still have multiple chars and may try for individual chars, but I don't see a way to do it large scale and funnel all loot to your "alpha" team.

[SirCowdog]

Since you can't trade upgrades this will hinder split raids in the early weeks alot though, you can't change where the gear goes and an upgrade usually will not be tradeable as well as TFing is supposed to be rarer this time around, so not everyone will already have TF pieces which are better. I only see it working once everyone is actually equipped and that in turn just means that people might not bother, they will obviously still have multiple chars and may try for individual chars, but I don't see a way to do it large scale and funnel all loot to your "alpha" team.

I'd guess in that situation they'd just run opening weeks with as many alts that they can stomach, and just use the highest geared ones when they get serious. Possibly with some account sharing so the best players end up on the highest geared class that they're accustomed to.

In truth, TF being more rare ends up in favor of split runs, since it increases the likelihood of being able to trade initiallt. The longer a particular gear slot goes without a TF proc, the more chances you have to trade future drops.

Once a slot does TF, it really only locks out that one slot for that week, but actually turns that alt into a favorable choice for further split runs due to the higher iLVL.

Like I said, it's going to be less efficient, but still possible for exceptionally determined players. Whether or not it with be inefficient enough to make a real difference will have to be determined by the acid test of the live version.

[Deleted]

??????????????? are you deliberately being dumb?

top raids will still do 4-6 splits with 4-6 of the same class on everyone and just take the one with the best luck to raids.

this only punishes guilds that do one split, or none at all.

also, why would anyone care what a couple hundred players out of like 5 million are doing lol

No need for insults, they don't make your arguments any better.

They don't care what 'a couple of hundred' players do. They care how quickly their encounters are beaten and how difficult they have to make them which then frustrates the non-hundred subscribers.

Therefore, they will put as many roadblocks in the way of super-fast gearing as they possibly can. Yes, the top guilds can do this same class split thing but it won't make gearing that much faster, as opposed to the split raids with Master Loot that basically almost guaranteed everyone having the best of the best gear in progress.