Azerite AP and leveling XP nerf

[Marc7]

The xp rates for the beta have been lower than they will be on live to make testing easier. It's not like we didn't know this was going to happen. It still feels about the same or a bit quicker than legion did when that launched.

[Jeina]

When...?

In legion? No not really so long as you killed farm bosses another dropped the next week.
In WoD? Again no... just raiding
In Cata? You can make a case for the darkmoon card early on.
In mop? Kinda you needed to get dailies and valor done
In tbc? Maybe early on for reps
In vanilla? Onyxia cloaks I suppose.

It baffles me when people talk about grinding gear... how do you even go about that in wow?

What do you think running the same dungeons/raids and killing the same bosses week in and week out for months at a time is called?

Or were you so fortunate to get every piece of gear you wanted on the first run?

[Nutrition]

What do you think running the same dungeons/raids and killing the same bosses week in and week out for months at a time is called?

Or were you so fortunate to get every piece of gear you wanted on the first run?

I got some during the sale run but progression only lasts maybe six weeks. You don't just smash face over and over.

[Jeina]

I got some during the sale run but progression only lasts maybe six weeks. You don't just smash face over and over.

And after those six weeks, you and everyone in the raid have gotten every piece of gear they wanted from the raid?

Not to mention, for 99% of the playerbase, progression lasts a lot longer than six weeks.

[chakley]

You didn't need to grind rep in vanilla. It offered benefits but it wasn't need at any point.

Don't think he was making the point it was needed, but it was there. There were rep grinds with tangible benefits. AV grind for unstoppable force. Winterspring grind for mount, ZG grind for enchants.

[Nutrition]

And after those six weeks, you and everyone in the raid have gotten every piece of gear they wanted from the raid?

Not to mention, for 99% of the playerbase, progression lasts a lot longer than six weeks.

Yes. Well I don't know about EVERYONE people play for different reasons and we had some that loved pushing ranks. Myself I was happy with it. Progression and grinding are two different things. Don't try to compare ap or azerite to killing bosses it doesn't work.

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Don't think he was making the point it was needed, but it was there. There were rep grinds with tangible benefits. AV grind for unstoppable force. Winterspring grind for mount, ZG grind for enchants.

Right and that is how grinding should of stayed rather then the abomination that is ap,azerite,and what valor was at the end of mop.

[Jeina]

Yes. Well I don't know about EVERYONE people play for different reasons and we had some that loved pushing ranks. Myself I was happy with it. Progression and grinding are two different things. Don't try to compare ap or azerite to killing bosses it doesn't work.

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Right and that is how grinding should of stayed rather then the abomination that is ap,azerite,and what valor was at the end of mop.

You may not consider killing the same boss for 26 weeks in a row and not getting the item you want grinding, but I do.

[Nutrition]

You may not consider killing the same boss for 26 weeks in a row and not getting the item you want grinding, but I do.

I have never seen nor heard of that happening... are you talking about something like a cosmetic reward like a mount?

[Squirtcity]

I didnt mind the xp rate where it was at. Ill do the rest of the quests at my own leisure. Thats what we have the whole mob scaling thing for right?

[InfiniteCharger]

The difference between grinding in older expansions and now is that there was more of a fixed loot table the further back in time you go.
Therefore the "grind" was in time spent to acquire a specific piece of gear with a specific set of traits.
So you as the player could pick and choose what gear and traits were important and focus on "grinding" that content.
Over time gear traits became randomized so that the "grind" was amplified by hoping for a "chance" at a certain optimal set of traits.
Therefore people stopped going after specific gear and specific traits and more just to "more power" in terms of item level.
In the past player progression was simply defined by leveling + gear where leveling was a major part of the game.
Then they added artifact power on top of that which now is more important than pure item level in determining player progression.
With all of these new additional elements being added the player has less and less choice as to what they want to shoot for while grinding.
So the "grind" is now just a pure random chance to get something good which only entices people to grind more for the "optimal" gear and stats.
Adding new resource meters is just a new form of progression which can be used to get people to "grind" alternate content outside raiding.

And before folks claim that you shouldn't be grinding for "optimal" anything, that contradicts the history of the game.
People have always raided for the sake of getting the best gear. There is no other reason to play the game.

I am not saying it is good or bad, but the game has evolved. And not everybody is going to like grinding for a "chance" at something good.

But time will tell.

[Jeina]

I have never seen nor heard of that happening... are you talking about something like a cosmetic reward like a mount?

Nah, people in my guild have spent months in previous xpacs farming raids for weapon and shield upgrades. The most horrendous one that comes to mind was 26 weeks to get the healing shield from Anub'arak in Trial.

Months to get weapon drops from Highmaul or BRF on my rogue.

[Barnabas]

oh no it will take you maybe an hour to three hours more to level boo hoo.

[javierdsv]

One thing that must be clear is:
There is no such thing as "beta nerf".

It's obvious they wanted a fast paced beta to test and stress much of the stuff quickly. For as long as it doesn't exist on live servers, it has not been nerfed or buffed, just tuned.

[Nutrition]

Nah, people in my guild have spent months in previous xpacs farming raids for weapon and shield upgrades. The most horrendous one that comes to mind was 26 weeks to get the healing shield from Anub'arak in Trial.

Months to get weapon drops from Highmaul or BRF on my rogue.

I can't see that as actually happening... not unless you ran with 10 rogues. The fact that roll coins exist... well call me mr doubtful.

[McFuu]

I've never seen a game where people complain so much about having to play it.

[PaladinBash]

XP on beta is very silly. You can level so fast it's nuts. I leveled one character to max when half the shit wasn't implemented and another again when it was (after character copy) and that was just a complete stomp. I know leveling isn't meant to be hard or anything but damn was it super fast. That's what people want I guess in the absence of Legion invasions and stuff so even with this XP nerf, it's still extremely fast to level.

Azerite softcap is what people want and some will grind every source of it right off the bat because that's what they do. Making it last a little longer for everyone else makes no difference to these people. It's still a mile ahead of AP in terms of how much you need of it and how fast you get it. It actually feels relevant, at least for a while anyway. I didn't exactly sit around grinding dailies and islands and shit so who knows how it feels on live.

[Onikaroshi]

I have never seen nor heard of that happening... are you talking about something like a cosmetic reward like a mount?

I used a blue shield in Cata until the DS dungeons, 2 full raid tiers and not a single shield drop. RNG sucks sometimes.

[fengosa]

More great changes. Can't wait for August 14th!!

[niil945]

Whining knows no limits on MMO-Champion!

1) They have done this nearly every beta for every expansion. XP rates are set generously to help people level up and test content in Alpha/Beta and then adjusted towards the end to something more realistic. They did the EXACT same thing in Legion's beta... and people whined about the huge anti-fun nerf then too (and promptly forgot about it obviously, as the same people are back whining again)

2) It's not a nerf when it was never live in the first place. Beta is a testing platform. They aren't nerfing anything when it's not something you've ever done before. Everyone is on the same even playing field when the game actually goes Live. It's like when they adjust numbers on new abilities... number tuning on beta is not the same as hotfixing in a nerf on Live to something people are already playing.

This is prettymuch the end of the discussion, and it was posted on the first page. Just laugh at the salty complainers and move on.

[Tartys]

Spoken like a true addict.

If you need a grind to keep you playing then the content itself isn't compelling.


Remember when we didn't have any of these moronic grind systems and people still played just to hunt gear? I do.


Azerite was destined to fail from the start.

A). Too easy to soft-cap. People won't play the stupid Islands because they're the best source.

B). Too hard to farm. People will get Azerite Armour loot drops and not be able to use them for weeks while they farm the required HoA level.


Pick one - they're both a fail.

Islands expedition are the new "legion invasions", infact are good for leveling Alts, in the reason why are account-wide, so you can use them to level Alts when, in meantime, you try to collect pets/mounts and toys. Pets are cageble, so you can sell it (are about 28).

Azerite is destinated to "fail" is the new "not a so interesting feature", but because of Traits. They are not so interesting by now also are for specs, so you must going back to the city and pay to change it if/when you change spec.

If you don't wanna do that, you are forced to pick neutrals traits, that are even less interesting.


So, if the Team puts strong traits, this system penalizes hybrid classes, in addition to having to wait, at any raid boss, people turn back to the city to change traits / talents.

If they put uninteresting traits, it becomes negligible.

They will find a balance during the expansion, as happened before with the Artifacts and the Legendary.