Misinformation about DX12 not supporting true fullscreen?

[GreenJesus]

I have a 960 ... can I use DX12 or should I stick with DX11?? Not exactly even sure what it does.

[ablib]

Windowed fullscreen is driving me nuts! When I alt-tab out, I want WoW to be minimized. Gone. And not come up, until I click on it in the task bar. Now, it's always in the background. I'm constantly clicking show desktop now to minimize it and show my desktop, but as soon as I click on anything, say a folder on my desktop, Wow comes right back up, with the folder I clicked on in the foreground.

[Voidism]

Windowed fullscreen is driving me nuts! When I alt-tab out, I want WoW to be minimized. Gone. And not come up, until I click on it in the task bar. Now, it's always in the background. I'm constantly clicking show desktop now to minimize it and show my desktop, but as soon as I click on anything, say a folder on my desktop, Wow comes right back up, with the folder I clicked on in the foreground.

This is my great annoyance with the whole deal too.

I want to be able to minimize the game, for real.

[Detheavn]

I love the amount of excuses you will make for a billion dollar company.

Get proven wrong -------> move goalposts/use excuse.

No, technically they are right, and the OP, contradicting as his topic title is vs the facts he states, confirms this. So I'm confused what you mean by moving the goalpost...

What OP means to say is that the lack of native support in DX12 should not mean the end of the discussion, as the functionality is supported in a second library, so by using DX12 exclusive fullscreen isn't necessarily out of the window.

In this case my only question would be:
How does this work when it comes to the multiple windows versions WoW needs to run on? As DXGI is developed indepenently and is part of the OS, does every OS from 7 to 10 (and its service packs) support this?
- If so, then I would see no issue in implementing this as it is an uniform fix.
- If not, I would understand that they would wait until theres a uniform solution to shis problem rather than having to try and tailor solutions to every Windows version and its patches.

All I know is that Windows 7 doesn't support DX12 (or rather the other way around I guess), which in itself may already complicate the matter.
Perhaps OP can enlighten us a bit more on the matter.

[Levyan]

Why can people with 2018 hardware not run a game at max settings that looks like it came straight out of 2010?


We're talking about a billion dollar company here that has done nothing to fix their decade old engine only utilizing 1 core. Stop making excuses.

Um, it may have been a couple years late to the game, but wow uses more than 1 core. That was part of the who x64 client years ago. Totally not trying to defend Blizzard's choices then or now, but that old info doesn't help your argument, right?

[Marlamin]

What OP means to say is that the lack of native support in DX12 should not mean the end of the discussion, as the functionality is supported in a second library, so by using DX12 exclusive fullscreen isn't necessarily out of the window.

Heh. There's a good pun in there somewhere.

[Deleted]

So....

The complaint is that Fullscreen now uses the Borderless Window Fullscreen mode (AKA good fullscreen) instead of ye olde 1990's Fullscreen?

Meh, didn't know anyone still used the old one anyway lol.

yeah why should anyone use the better and superior mode lol.

[Nathasil]

If DX12 didn't support full-screen, no developer would touch it because players all run their games in full screen and setting it to full screen is the first thing we do if for some reason it isn't set that way to begin with.

I have no idea WTF BLIZ is trying to pull but when I reported it, I treated it as some kind of absurd joke.
Because, I said, it's obviously a horrible oversight and a mistake on their parts, since no one would do this intentionally.
And insisted we need a fix, immediately.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but there is at least one gamer (=me) who usses borderless window FS instead of exclusive FS whenever it is possible. For some older games that do not offer borderless FS i even use DX wrappers that add the feature. And seeing how many such wrappers exist and how frequently they are requested i cannot be alone.

Yes, some gamers do prefer borderless FS to exclusive FS. Claiming otherwise is simply not accurate.

[caervek]

yeah why should anyone use the better and superior mode lol.

It's okay Blizzard have made it the default/standard mode now, they removed the legacy one.

- - - Updated - - -

If DX12 didn't support full-screen, no developer would touch it because players all run their games in full screen and setting it to full screen is the first thing we do if for some reason it isn't set that way to begin with.

True, however most gamers set it to borderless/windowed fullscreen not exclusive full screen (as a lot of games no longer have that option anyway) because it's not 2006 anymore and CPUs have more than one core lol.

[lonely zergling]

I play in windowed mode always and use a r9 290x and dx12 did make everything better for my graphic and fps. No problems here with windowed.

[Detheavn]

Let me ask you another couple of questions:

Why did they even implement DX12 if it doesn't actually increase performance in any meaningful way?

DX12 doesn't necessarily increase performance for everyone, it only does this on newer hardware on supporting OSes. Also DX12 isn't a magical answer to performance issues. It's basically just a graphics and audio API, you still have drivers to deal with, which are almost always reactively updated.

If DX11 is still an option inside the client, why can I not select that and True Fullscreen is still offered to me?

At this moment DX11 is practically legacy code. If you want to be prepared for the future, you need to slowly start to replace code where you can, when you can. At this point DX11 support is only needed because of old windows versions and old hardware, both which cannot be supported indefinately.

As for the actual question of why exclusive fullscreen mode is gone: I'm not a Blizzard dev, but they probably had a reason.

Why can people with 2018 hardware not run a game at max settings that looks like it came straight out of 2010?

Blizzard's art style may look old to you, but with everything going on on the screen, all the players around you, all the spell effects, this all takes an impact on performance. Just because something doesn't look like the new Doom or Farcry 5 doesn't mean it's not using its hardware to its fullest potential. If anything, there's a lot more going on onscreen in WoW because it's an MMO, rather than a single player game. Your game isn't just tracking your changes, but those of other people, and sometimes the environment as well.

We're talking about a billion dollar company here that has done nothing to fix their decade old engine only utilizing 1 core. Stop making excuses.

It must be great being so ignorant. I really wish I could do that. I wish I could truly say that when I boot up a private server of vanilla that everything looks the same, and feels the same, and nothing has changed, but it has. Everything has changed, that's the entire reason why you're bloody crying about DX12: Because Blizzard made changes to their engine... Anyway, not everything a CPU needs to calculate can be solved/made faster/more efficient by throwing more cores at it.

One would assume DX12 was brought in to help with densely populated areas in WoW. But as with everything Blizzard does - it's half fucking baked. All I can currently see from their DX12 implementation is downsides, so why do it?

One assumed incorrectly. DX12 is a your graphics API. Your densely populated areas are most likely the issue of your CPU being the bottleneck. Personal experience...

Heh. There's a good pun in there somewhere.

You're probably not gonna believe me, but that wasn't on purpose

[Detheavn]

Actually. 90% of WoWs shitty engine issues can be fixed by making it utilize more cores.

I'd like to see a source for that, because that's simply not the case.

[Lindon]

We're talking about a billion dollar company here that has done nothing to fix their decade old engine only utilizing 1 core. Stop making excuses.

WoW hasn't been limited to 1 core (2 actually) since patch 3.3.2. This was back in 2010
Ignorance sure is bliss.

[Detheavn]

SMALL INDIE COMPANY. PLEASE UNDERSTAND.

^See above.

You'd think at some point they'd throw some money at it hey. It's not like they don't have any? Nah lets just keep throwing more particles and keep updating the graphics and shadows and everything else until our engine blows up.

What are you referring to with the indie company?

Also 2 threads on a forum made by a couple of people. There's has to be more in depth information. Please tell me this isn't it?

[Detheavn]

Small indie company. Is a way of saying - "14 years and billions of dollars. Can't spend a million dollars to update their engine."

Type it into google.

Yeah, so there's no discussion possible here, good to know

[Detheavn]

Just when I thought you weren't going to excuse them for their failures.

But it seems you are an apologist. Pathetic.

I'm not an apologist. Nor am I excusing them for any failures. If anything I'm a realist who looks at things objectively, which you clearly haven't.

I asked you for proof that 90% of the issues can be solved by using multiple cores, and you cannot provide it, which probably means you are pulling stuff out of your back-end, and as such I am not going to dig for any fictional evidence. If you want to continue discussing this, the burden of proof lies with you.

At any rate, you have been avoiding going into any of my answers anyway, so like you I am also going to make a wild assumption and say that you have no idea what you are talking about. Nevertheless, I wish you a nice day

[Roar-Powah]

More gaming devs need to embrace Vulkan, sick of MS and all this DirectX bullshit.

[Deleted]

Who even plays WoW on true full screen...? Classic mmo champ making a fuss out of anything, even when Blizzard have given us massive performance improvements with the latest patch yet you still have these people crying about crap that is so insignificant. Nobody cares if you run into problems running on Windows 7, get off your high horse and use W10.. like honestly, which sane person uses w7 over w10...?

[Nevcairiel]

Performance has definitely improved in 8.0, however it is quite impossible to go back to 7.3.5 to make identical comparisons, so neither can I prove that this is the case, nor can you disprove it.

Of course performance changes are also hardware dependent, so YMMV.

[Trend]

yeah why should anyone use the better and superior mode lol.

It's definitely not been superior for me. Looks like crap and my fps are cut in half. I have a 2016 MacBook w/ a 2.7 i7, 16GB RAM and Radeon Pro 455 2048 MB / Intel HD Graphics 530 1536 MB. It's never been able to run the game adequately in full 4k (or course) that my machine is natively pushing and previously I was able to run in fullscreen in a lesser resolution so it was no problem. The scaling setting inside WoW does not have the same effect. So my best option now, with this better and superior mode, is either to run it in a smaller window and/or screw with my OS every time I want to play WoW to reduce the resolution that way. I'm not going to pretend that I understand all the reasons and inner workings, but it's pretty shit at this point compared to last week in terms of convenience, appearance and performance. That doesn't seem better and superior to me.