I really hope Sylvanas dies in BfA

[f3llyn]

Why are we at war though? This entire conflict is 100% on Sylvanas and NOONE else.

That's not even true. I not big on lore but I do know the entire conflict is based on total and complete misunderstanding that took place at the start of Legion.

It's no one in particulars fault.

[Eradicator3]

Her character is pretty one dimensional lately which isn't very interesting. Prior to reading Before the Storm I'd always found her pretty intriguing.

I speculate that Alleria will eventually succumb to the Void and Sylvanas will end-up being a hero of sorts.

That would be a sad finale

[Steampunkette]

I think a better reading (because it is closer to the actual text) is: As soon a Calia, a rival to her throne, is revealed, Sylvanas no longer trys to convince the council to agree with her views, she equates any kind of dissent with siding with the enemy and with betraying her.

Like I said, everytime the desolate council or this meeting is mentioned, Sylvanas thoughts are about how to get rid of the council (the institution, not it's members) and how to convince everyone that humans are not friends. Getting rid of their hope is established as a theme long before Calia even shows up.

(Not quite sure if that covered your actual disagreement. If you just wanted to point out that Sylvanas was relativly friendly until she felt her power threatned by Calia, I do agree with that)

Nah. That's not a better reading. That's a biased reading.

Here's where Sylvanas rejoices that she doesn't have to do anything to destroy the Desolate Council (Her reason being that they are a threat to her power):

The words were sweet as honey. Sweet as victory. The council would be divided, and the conflict among its members would destroy it. And Sylvanas hadn’t had to do a thing.

Her joy faded when she saw Elsie Benton waving and laughing at Anduin, who even went so far as to bow to -her-. At that moment there was a definite hate-on for Elsie, and she considered blowing the horn right then and there, but knew it would not be enough to convict her in the eyes of the Council, so she waited to let Elsie dig her own grave. She still thought the Council would destroy itself as the bitter and desolate members argued with the happy ones.

Here's the blowing of the horn:

“They’re defecting,” Sylvanas snapped.

Nathanos was instantly alert, scanning the field with his spyglass. “Several of them are moving in the direction of Stromgarde Keep,” he confirmed, “but that may not be intentional.”

“Let’s find out,” Sylvanas said. She lifted the horn to her lips and blew three long, clear notes. Now to see who comes when called—and who breaks and runs.

The italics portion is meant to be Sylvanas's thoughts. Before she learns that Calia is on the field, she thinks there are defectors, so she blows the horn to find out who is defecting. It's implied that those who "Come when called" will be allowed to return to the Undercity, while those who "break and run" will be killed (Since Defectors are killed among the Forsaken). This includes Elsie Benton, who would've come back without Sylvanas trying to harm her since it could make her into a Martyr. But she thinks because of the waving and the bow and the fact that Elsie's the Prime Governor of the Council she is one of the Defectors.

THEN comes the part where Calia gets revealed.

Menethil.

The name was laden, heavy with meaning and portent. It was the name of the monster who had made her. Who had slaughtered and destroyed. It was the name of the king who had ruled Lordaeron. And it was the name of that king’s daughter—his heir.

And to think she had thought the king of Stormwind an ingenuous fool. He played politics better than she could possibly have imagined.

Anduin Wrynn had brought a usurper with him. And now, that girl, that damned human child who ought to be long dead, was taking Sylvanas’s own people to join the Alliance.

“My lady, what are your orders?”

This is the moment when she gives the Rangers the order to kill everyone. No mention of the Council disagreeing with her. No mention of people hoping for a reunion with their family. "Anduin Wrynn had brought a usurper with him."

That's the heated moment when she gave the order to kill them all. The temptation she references? To follow Calia. The Hope? Defection to the Alliance.

[owbu]

Nah. That's not a better reading. That's a biased reading.

Readings are biased by nature. That's why you use more objective measurements to determine which reading is better. "Has to add words" is definetely one of those. Should probably have just said that, I can see how that looked a bit snarky^^

Will read the rest tommorow, have to go to bed now. Gn8

[Kithelle]

The last Warchief that had the balls to stand up to her got backstabbed by a Troll SJW.

Sylvanas can die in a fire for all I care, just bring back Garrosh! Greatest Warchief ever!

Did he really stand up to her? He told her not to do something, she did it anyways, and he didn't punish her.

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That's not even true. I not big on lore but I do know the entire conflict is based on total and complete misunderstanding that took place at the start of Legion.

It's no one in particulars fault.

Well maybe read up on your lore a bit? This war started because Sylvanas decided she wanted to murder leaders of the Alliance and capture Darnassus so she could put a stranglehold on the Alliance and conquer them while they were in disarray...only something as of yet unknown happened resulting in the burning of Teldrassil and the Alliance declared war on the Horde.

[f3llyn]

Did he really stand up to her? He told her not to do something, she did it anyways, and he didn't punish her.

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Well maybe read up on your lore a bit? This war started because Sylvanas decided she wanted to murder leaders of the Alliance and capture Darnassus so she could put a stranglehold on the Alliance and conquer them while they were in disarray...only something as of yet unknown happened resulting in the burning of Teldrassil and the Alliance declared war on the Horde.

Because Greymaine didn't attack Sylvanas in Stormheim because he thought the horde betrayed the alliance instead of asking her what happened... Like maybe, just maybe there's a reason why the horde had to retreat. Like their then warchief getting terminally wounded and the fact that they were being over run by legion.

At the very least you should admit the alliance isn't completely innocent when it comes to provoking war.

[Kithelle]

Because Greymaine didn't attack Sylvanas in Stormheim because he thought the horde betrayed the alliance instead of asking her what happened... Like maybe, just maybe there's a reason why the horde had to retreat. Like their then warchief getting terminally wounded and the fact that they were being over run by legion.

At the very least you should admit the alliance isn't completely innocent when it comes to provoking war.

Once again, there was a paper trail...Genn knew she was up to some shady shit, just not what it was. You don't leave your commander in the middle of a warzone running around by themselves.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Once again, there was a paper trail...Genn knew she was up to some shady shit, just not what it was. You don't leave your commander in the middle of a warzone running around by themselves.

no, if you paid any actual attention you would know the Horde got the book too. Your argument isnt canon

[Super Dickmann]

Once again, there was a paper trail...Genn knew she was up to some shady shit, just not what it was. You don't leave your commander in the middle of a warzone running around by themselves.

Do you people ever get tired of dragging out this line, being proven wrong over and over again and then regurgitating it in the next thread?

Say it with me now - Genn did not know shit, his reason for attacking is purely based on opportunity:

Sky Admiral Rogers says: Three days ago, the Forsaken fleet set sail from Durotar, heading straight for the Broken Isles. We think Sylvanas Windrunner herself may be among them.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: We are to track them from a safe distance. We may engage, but only if the situation demands.
Sky Admiral Rogers says: I strongly suspect the situation will demand it.
Genn Greymane says: It had better.
Genn Greymane says: I am not in the habit of tracking prey unless I intend on killing it.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Maki...nds_(Alliance)

Then he shows no knowledge of Eyir or even the val'kyr and has to go through the motions of learning from the shields what's up.

It's obvious at this point that the Horde wants something in Skold-Ashil. Unfortunately we still don't know what they're after.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Quest:Shie...ets_(Alliance)

But muh Azsuna quest, muh intel, muh paper trail

There's no canonical plot order between the zones and even if we take the scrapped pre-beta order, there's no canonical faction per zone, so your paper trail could well have been thrown in the woodchipper by the Forsaken once the Horde found it, which would gel better with Genn not knowing shit about shit in Stormheim.