BFA [8.0] Ret Paladin Discussion

[Bane-Thunder-God]

Why would anyone focus on 2v2? does it give tittles now? I am confused here and from what I have seen PvP is no better than it has been since the changes aka a giant shit turd(not been over 2.2k since around MoP). Also I dont think you how selfless healer works stacks are gainned every time u spend HP not every time u cast judgment, either way not like WoG is a option for PvE as its a dps loss, GL topping people with WoG as well in BFA when our 2ndry stats will be much lower atm I can easily have 42% crit 36% haste and almost 30% mast and with non crits x1 cast is around 25% hp atm with WoG.

In BFA 2v2 gives titles now and you can earn vicious saddle from 2v2 unlike before

Oh wow sorry, I remember selfless healer when it first returned, it looks like its been updated since early beta times. but still WoG is the go to when it comes to 2v2 for sure. This might change if we get nerfs at 120 but we will see. But still its a long build up for those 4 stacks when healing is needed immediatly, WoG definitely wins out here.

[Kuriyama]

Shit you're right misread mb, man I wish wisdom went away with it too

Yeah, same. I never feel wanted for my DPS or utility anymore. Literally have the healers fighting to keep me playing my Ret in BfA just so one of them can have Wisdom.

I was excited when raid buffs were announced again but quickly let down when I saw that we don't get one. Like....what the hell? Paladins were the best raid buff class in previous years. Good old days of using Pally Power. I just wish they'd removed the current version of Kings and Wisdom, just give us raid buff Kings that increases stats or something.

[capri sunset]

Yeah, same. I never feel wanted for my DPS or utility anymore. Literally have the healers fighting to keep me playing my Ret in BfA just so one of them can have Wisdom.

I was excited when raid buffs were announced again but quickly let down when I saw that we don't get one. Like....what the hell? Paladins were the best raid buff class in previous years. Good old days of using Pally Power. I just wish they'd removed the current version of Kings and Wisdom, just give us raid buff Kings that increases stats or something.

I imagine they fully count it as utility even though it has no gameplay to it so it probably takes up a lot of the budget, I'd trade it for sac with magic dispel and salv back in a heartbeat. But hey there's selfless healer, that's a step forward.

I'd still rather see the end of all raid buffs but yeah that was such a weird direction, they even could've brought back auras but instead just these 5 classes, very odd.

[Deleted]

Hey guys, fast talent question;
What do you choose between Fires of Justice and the talent that boosts Art of War (can't remember it's name), and why? Thank you.

[Deleted]

atm all 3 talents in that tier are close enough togheter that it will depend on your gear which one is best but for elveling i would go with the art of war boosting one

[caervek]

Using both legendary cloak and highlord ring, the rotation feels super smooth.

Able to use both inquisition and the procs talent is a boon.

Urrgh, I was using it for DP/Crusade, is Inqushiten mandatory then? If so I think I'll change main for BFA lol.

[Alanar]

Urrgh, I was using it for DP/Crusade, is Inqushiten mandatory then? If so I think I'll change main for BFA lol.

Well ret got some nerfs so I believe unless you have the soul of the highlord just go inquistion. The 7% haste is making your rotation alot smoother while questing or high end. Also crusade is kinda outplayed.. its not what it used to be.
Its easy to maintain tbh no big deal.

- - - Updated - - -

In BFA 2v2 gives titles now and you can earn vicious saddle from 2v2 unlike before

Oh wow sorry, I remember selfless healer when it first returned, it looks like its been updated since early beta times. but still WoG is the go to when it comes to 2v2 for sure. This might change if we get nerfs at 120 but we will see. But still its a long build up for those 4 stacks when healing is needed immediatly, WoG definitely wins out here.

It got a 20% nerf only in pvp.. have to test it out at 120 now to see if its still good.. but idk atm.

[caervek]

Well ret got some nerfs so I believe unless you have the soul of the highlord just go inquistion. The 7% haste is making your rotation alot smoother while questing or high end.

Heh, not sure using a clunky talent to make the rotation smoother is a net gain, that's like wiping shit on your car before washing it so the difference seems better XD

Guess I'll switch to Warrior then if Inq is mandatory, was hoping it would be the holy wrath of the expansion so I could avoid it even with highlord ring /sigh.

[Alanar]

Heh, not sure using a clunky talent to make the rotation smoother is a net gain, that's like wiping shit on your car before washing it so the difference seems better XD

Guess I'll switch to Warrior then if Inq is mandatory, was hoping it would be the holy wrath of the expansion so I could avoid it even with highlord ring /sigh.

Why is it a clunky talent? Just gives you 7% haste and damage for like 40 sec+.. 1 button to press haha.
I dont think its mandatory, but my 120 on the beta just played better then with the stupid rng talent. Imo that talent is the worst next to crusade. I never liked that window with crusade.

[caervek]

Why is it a clunky talent? Just gives you 7% haste and damage for like 40 sec+.. 1 button to press haha.

That's kind of textbook clunky.

It provides a passive buff, provided you press a specific button every 45 seconds. Why not just make it passive? The only reason it has the maintenance factor is so they can pretend it's engaging/immersive and not just another passive talent (like the ones they feel were a mistake in Legion but nobody really disliked), however pressing a specific button every 45 seconds in order to continue doing what you're doing is not engaging/immersive it's boring/tedious.

It's directly comparable to how rend worked for arms warriors in WotLK/Cata (press it every ~35 seconds, make sure not to forget or your DPS will tank), until they realised it was terrible and patched it so it was refreshed by Mortal Strike. If Inquisition was refreshed by Crusader Strike or Judgement it wouldn't suck as much, but as it stands it's just a clunky talent that should be passive.

[Alanar]

That's kind of textbook clunky.

It provides a passive buff, provided you press a specific button every 45 seconds. Why not just make it passive? The only reason it has the maintenance factor is so they can pretend it's engaging/immersive and not just another passive talent (like the ones they feel were a mistake in Legion but nobody really disliked), however pressing a specific button every 45 seconds in order to continue doing what you're doing is not engaging/immersive it's boring/tedious.

It's directly comparable to how rend worked for arms warriors in WotLK/Cata (press it every ~35 seconds, make sure not to forget or your DPS will tank), until they realised it was terrible and patched it so it was refreshed by Mortal Strike. If Inquisition was refreshed by Crusader Strike or Judgement it wouldn't suck as much, but as it stands it's just a clunky talent that should be passive.

Even then you still only have to press it once every 45 sec.. dont see it as a big deal. I get that you think it should be passive then. Bit still it feels like jusy something to press.. its not like your overflowing with stuff to do in your rotation.

[Deleted]

Well... after leveling to 120, inquisition is still a boring POS. There better be a competitive DP option because i'm not playing with that crap. I was never a crusade hater either, but i doubt it's competitive.
Getting a DP proc and being able to line it up with judgment buff is satisfying and fun. Putting a buff you hardly notice up is frustrating and slows down your play. Lift that penalty and have no fun in the process.

[Deleted]

How bad is DP compared to Inquisition? DP just feels more fun to play, but I don't wanna gimp myself..

[MookieRah]

@Dipologic
I actually think DP isn't that bad in comparison. It really matters on your stats and such which is better. That said, the easiest way to find out is to sim yourself.

[Deleted]

That's kind of textbook clunky.

It provides a passive buff, provided you press a specific button every 45 seconds. Why not just make it passive? The only reason it has the maintenance factor is so they can pretend it's engaging/immersive and not just another passive talent (like the ones they feel were a mistake in Legion but nobody really disliked), however pressing a specific button every 45 seconds in order to continue doing what you're doing is not engaging/immersive it's boring/tedious.

It's directly comparable to how rend worked for arms warriors in WotLK/Cata (press it every ~35 seconds, make sure not to forget or your DPS will tank), until they realised it was terrible and patched it so it was refreshed by Mortal Strike. If Inquisition was refreshed by Crusader Strike or Judgement it wouldn't suck as much, but as it stands it's just a clunky talent that should be passive.

And now we have people calling pressing a button once every 45 seconds clunky.

Shaking my fucking head

[pay928]

And now we have people calling pressing a button once every 45 seconds clunky.

Shaking my fucking head

Agreed, it's basically Savage Roar/Slice n' Dice.

[caervek]

And now we have people calling pressing a button once every 45 seconds clunky.

Shaking my fucking head

That's because this is the type of bad design for which the word was coined. It's a textbook case of clunky design.

If it was an activatable ability with a short duration (I.E it was fixed at 15 seconds for triple the effect on a 45s CD) it would be excusable, however having periodic upkeep on an ability that's effectively a permanent passive buff is just stupid, it's the type of clunky design that many had hoped this game was moving away from in recent times. Especially when the upkeep is to press a button that does nothing else and the result is similar in effect to a stacking proc buff from azerite talents.

They should have simply made the talent "spending holy power increases your haste and damage done by 1% for ten seconds, stacks 7 times", there, far less clunky and works just as well.

[aGit]

That's because this is the type of bad design for which the word was coined. It's a textbook case of clunky design.

If it was an activatable ability with a short duration (I.E it was fixed at 15 seconds for triple the effect on a 45s CD) it would be excusable, however having periodic upkeep on an ability that's effectively a permanent passive buff is just stupid, it's the type of clunky design that many had hoped this game was moving away from in recent times. Especially when the upkeep is to press a button that does nothing else and the result is similar in effect to a stacking proc buff from azerite talents.

They should have simply made the talent "spending holy power increases your haste and damage done by 1% for ten seconds, stacks 7 times", there, far less clunky and works just as well.

it's the same mechanic rets had in cataclysm, it sucked then and it sucks now (to play that is), dps wise it's the best talent of the tier. For me, DP is only marginally behind, but it's so much more fun to play so i'm sticking with it till the raids.

[Alanar]

it's the same mechanic rets had in cataclysm, it sucked then and it sucks now (to play that is), dps wise it's the best talent of the tier. For me, DP is only marginally behind, but it's so much more fun to play so i'm sticking with it till the raids.

Tried it out in a couple of dungs.. honestly it feels like ot never procs.. were the 7 % haste on ibquistion is speeding up my rotation and lowers cds which are effected by haste. Not realy a hard choice.

[Bonkbonk100]

Spending resources on a farty buff noise instead of a devastating attack is not something for everybody?

Strange huh...