Personal loot and gearing up your raid

[Slaxx]

What are your thoughts on handling personal loot to gear up your raidgroup?

For Legion we've been using lootcouncil with succes and barely had anyone qqing about who got which item. But with the personal loot it's becoming harder to gear up as a raid group then just gear up individuals.

Whats your thought on forcing people to trade their tradable loot?

Where would you draw the line on when to trade it? I feel like looking at a case by case upgrade would be more time consuming then the benifits it would give.

Would you make people change their lootspecs to get trinkets distributed faster? For example I'm a healer and I don't need anything apart from titanforged from boss X. Boss X drops the BiS dps trinket. For the benifit of the raid I'd change my lootspec to dps just to get my fellow raiders the trinket.

Thanks for your thoughts!

[Netherblood]

Going to ML as much as possible, any tradable gear will be traded to ML and then redistributed. If people don't need anything from a boss outside of TFs and the boss also drops OP trinket no reason not to change your loot spec to help get trinkets assuming you'd be able to trade it.

Personally, the personal loot change is just annoying for our guild. We are usually around world 95-105 guild with 25-26 man roster and we never deny trials loot and keep everyone around same ilvl since we want everyone to be ready for progression on any of the bosses. That doesn't mean we don't optimize stuff like tier and trinkets, etc. We try to keep everyone's play time in raid about same, but with personal loot being forced and azerite items not being tradable someone could get really screwed on loot and if they end up like 10ilvls below others it will be hard to justify bringing them to an end boss if its tight dps check. With master looter we could usually keep everyone around same gear level.

Before someone says that its a myth and personal loot and titanforging won't cause a gap that big. I have seen it happen multiple times in alt runs. Where one alt would be 10ilvls above some other alt.

[Femininity]

This first raid patch will be a glorified test run. If there's a serious imbalance in loot distribution, they'll likely face more backlash than they already have, and changes will likely be made.

Loot is a touchy subject. Blizzard is playing with fire here.

OT: There won't be any forced trading in my group.

[Rici]

I don't think anyone here really thinks this change was made due to trials in raid groups. Trials always knew what will happen when they join a new raid group. The change was made due to three simple reasons: 1.) Making split runs less attractive (which in return means the top 10 guilds will just have to go even more split runs to get the same outcome as before). 2.) Adding a new layer of RNG to the game. 3.) To make bosses loot table a bit less critical. Imagine a situation where a boss drops two glaives and you got no demon hunter in your raid pool.

Imo the new approach of Personal Loot Helper is quite promising. It offers an intuitive way to swap gear around, getting a good result for your raid group without forcing people to give away loot if they are really bothered about it. I loved the way you distributed loot per council as it was by far the most efficient way to gear up your raid, but on the other hand, with the system we got now, I don't really want force people to give away loot they already got in their bags. Many people already stated they just won't loot the bosses and let the items be sent to them via post master, just to avoid the risk of being forced to trade away stuff...

[meroko]

Here's why it's not that big of a deal, to me. If it's an upgrade ILVL wise, you can't trade it, period. BFA is moving toward a more "if it's a higher ILVL, it's an upgrade regardless" kind of formula. Now there might be a few pieces that aren't better solely because of ILVL (i'm looking at you rings) but at least the NECK is out of the equation since your artifact will take up that spot.

So taking all of that in, is it really that bad? The only time a loot council decision is made is if the item drops that is at a lower item level than the slot you already have so 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to need it anyway. So I foresee loot distrubtion via personal loot being MUCH easier and less of a headache than people are imagining.

[kamuimac]

Here's why it's not that big of a deal, to me. If it's an upgrade ILVL wise, you can't trade it, period. BFA is moving toward a more "if it's a higher ILVL, it's an upgrade regardless" kind of formula. Now there might be a few pieces that aren't better solely because of ILVL (i'm looking at you rings) but at least the NECK is out of the equation since your artifact will take up that spot.

So taking all of that in, is it really that bad? The only time a loot council decision is made is if the item drops that is at a lower item level than the slot you already have so 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to need it anyway. So I foresee loot distrubtion via personal loot being MUCH easier and less of a headache than people are imagining.

its not but 90% of people whining about this change here has no beta acces and have no f...ing clue how deeply different gear and secondaries on it work/scale up in BfA . if they did know they wouldnt bitch as much when in 95% cases anything even with your worst stats will be an upgrade due to how much main stat is on it.

[Temp name]

Here's why it's not that big of a deal, to me. If it's an upgrade ILVL wise, you can't trade it, period. BFA is moving toward a more "if it's a higher ILVL, it's an upgrade regardless" kind of formula.

Just like they tried to with Legion.. And how'd that work out for them?

My main problem is that it's either going to be a complete shit-show, or or annoying because you can't choose who gear goes to the first 2+ resets, due to no one having higher / the same ilvl in those slots.
The only way this is a better loot system is that it doesn't take as long to decide who gets it

[Deleted]

I've generally been pretty lax with the loot rules in my guild, dps were obviously geared as a priority but that was that for the most part when it came to who to bring, if someone wanted in they were in if there was room, if people wanted to be benched they were benched.

BFA seems to mandate a more heavy handed approach, at least to raid composition.

IF a boss drops a caster trinket, every caster will be brought if it doesn't make the boss a pain to kill. Melee will be benched to fit them in, even if the caster already has the trinket and healers / tanks will probably be asked to set their loot to dps spec if a boss drops a dps trinket that they can trade to help farm them. People will need to be dragged along for bosses they're done with so that they can trade loot out that the raid needs.

Similarly I'd be inclined to try to keep out trialists from any mythic endboss mounts that we try to farm up just to make sure they're going to the team that killed it.

Would have been nice if bosses could have just continued to drop loot like they had done for the past 14 years, but now you have to fight Blizzards loot system as well.

[Tojara]

Good luck forcing personal loot on your guild, unless you have a group of committed individuals that you know pretty well, or are in an extremely high end guild.

I've seen guilds advertising that they will master loot what they can, and have people trade shit for their loot council to determine where it goes. While that works well in theory (and is the best course for actually progressing), I'm going to assure you that there are going to be many instances of drama concerning this.

When loot was 100% in the hands of a master looter, or a council, yeah people might feel slighted, but they would probably keep hush about it unless it was a gross injustice. I ran one for over 13 years and there was instances where people made it publicly known (rare), but generally people complained to a group of 1-2 of their friends about how they deserved something. There was actually nothing they could do about it, and people generally knew that complaining about loot in a guild with master looter is a good way to get yourself put on a shit list, or just removed from the guild rather swiftly.

Imagine when the power is put in the hands of everybody in your guild, and somebody asks you to trade an item to them so they can decide where it will go. Progression minded players won't mind this, but I can 100% assure people that when it lands in the hands of the wrong person they are either going to cause an issue, or better yet, just lie about eligibility of trading so they can keep it for themselves (or better yet, trade it to someone they want to give it too).

Granted this was farm, but when after we killed Mythic Argus, I just ran with personal loot so it made things a bit faster. What I observed was that half the guild would willingly talk and pass shit along to people it benefited the most (I didn't pressure anybody into anything). However, I also observed a decent block of people who would be unresponsive to people asking them if they needed what they just picked up. They would either keep it for themselves or just trade it to people they wanted to give it too. A few instances of people just keeping an item for an off-spec that they never play, or simply lying about the eligibility of trading (whether to keep for themselves, or give to somebody else).

What if your holy paladin with a 345 iLvL ring (okay stats), gets another 345 ring with BiS stats and maybe a socket the following week. It's an upgrade for them, but they can still trade the item. Reasonable people who actually care about progression would give it to the person it benefits the most, but good luck convincing every single paladin in this situation to hand it over for a master looter to decide.

Overall everybody has to play by the same rules. It's kind of annoying with how raid mounts drop right now (one is fucking laughable) that they will be given out to one random person who doesn't have it come BFA. If they are going to keep this retarded loot system, they should at least expedite prestige items like that by allowing two to drop for every single kill. It's been a problem regardless, forcing you to run a raid for over 6 months for most guilds with a roster around ~24, in order to get everybody a fucking mount lol.

[kamuimac]

I've generally been pretty lax with the loot rules in my guild, dps were obviously geared as a priority but that was that for the most part when it came to who to bring, if someone wanted in they were in if there was room, if people wanted to be benched they were benched.

BFA seems to mandate a more heavy handed approach, at least to raid composition.

IF a boss drops a caster trinket, every caster will be brought if it doesn't make the boss a pain to kill. Melee will be benched to fit them in, even if the caster already has the trinket and healers / tanks will probably be asked to set their loot to dps spec if a boss drops a dps trinket that they can trade to help farm them. People will need to be dragged along for bosses they're done with so that they can trade loot out that the raid needs.

Similarly I'd be inclined to try to keep out trialists from any mythic endboss mounts that we try to farm up just to make sure they're going to the team that killed it.

Would have been nice if bosses could have just continued to drop loot like they had done for the past 14 years, but now you have to fight Blizzards loot system as well.

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

[asil]

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

Yeah doing what it takes to actually kill bosses is "toxic."

[Deleted]

Every post by "serious mythic raiding environment" gives more proof that ML removal was 100% correct call.

[Izenhart]

Never even been discussed as an issue in my guild, loot will be still handled out in Loot Council for as many items that you can

You'll have to get to have more people set their loot spec smartly, like you don't want a disc priest to keep disc loot spec on a boss that drops a BiS DPS trinket since it would be available to disc too, or a tank set the loot spec to healer so he doesn't randomly get a DPS weapon with PL.

Every post by "serious mythic raiding environment" gives more proof that ML removal was 100% correct call.

And every post by clueless LFR heroes gives more proof that catering to casuals is making the game worse and worse

2H DPS weapons are going to drop to Blood DK tanks

1H DPS weapons are going to drop to Prot warrior and Prot paladin tanks

You could get a 5ilvl upgrade and the next boss gives you a titanforged 25ilvl upgrade and you won't be able to trade either of those, all of this for what?

To defeat the imaginary illuminati loot council mafia?

[kamuimac]

Never even been discussed as an issue in my guild, loot will be still handled out in Loot Council for as many items that you can

You'll have to get to have more people set their loot spec smartly, like you don't want a disc priest to keep disc loot spec on a boss that drops a BiS DPS trinket since it would be available to disc too, or a tank set the loot spec to healer so he doesn't randomly get a DPS weapon with PL.



And every post by clueless LFR heroes gives more proof that catering to casuals is making the game worse and worse

2H DPS weapons are going to drop to Blood DK tanks

1H DPS weapons are going to drop to Prot warrior and Prot paladin tanks

You could get a 5ilvl upgrade and the next boss gives you a titanforged 25ilvl upgrade and you won't be able to trade either of those, all of this for what?

To defeat the imaginary illuminati loot council mafia?

"Imaginary " cute . If people wouldnt be abused Blizzard wouldnt take actions. What abusers are mostly pissed od is that they will have now talk to people on guild. They will have to be social . Instead just being butt buddies with loot council they will have to be "friends" with others . The outrage. Being toxic and abusive was so much better

[Deleted]

"Imaginary " cute . If people wouldnt be abused Blizzard wouldnt take actions. What abusers are mostly pissed od is that they will have now talk to people on guild. They will have to be social . Instead just being butt buddies with loot council they will have to be "friends" with others . The outrage. Being toxic and abusive was so much better

And loss of power, they will still bully with the new RC Council (btw, toxic 100% addon atm with looting check). But it's all for naught. New era in WoW is coming.

[Dracodraco]

This post is prosimy beyond doubt how toxic and abusive guilds are and that Blizzard is making very good decisions with PL . You treat your raiders as nothing but cannon fodder for obtaining loot. Feel sorry for people who undergo such abusment only to raid. The only benefit of you will start loosing people imidiately when they realise that they are there not to raid only to gear up butt buddies of loot council. This proves that Blizzard should just make all loot non tradable to defend players from abusement like the one described here.

The post explains what the issue of losing ML will bring, a far more strict and "unfun" raid environment where people will have to be used this way. This isn't what guilds are *doing*. This is what they'll *need to do*. ML works perfectly fine right now given you aren't dumb enough to stick around in a guild that's unfair; PL forces specific comps and lootspecs to farm items because that's the best way to get geared. It's dumb.

"Imaginary " cute . If people wouldnt be abused Blizzard wouldnt take actions. What abusers are mostly pissed od is that they will have now talk to people on guild. They will have to be social . Instead just being butt buddies with loot council they will have to be "friends" with others . The outrage. Being toxic and abusive was so much better

That isn't an issue with loot. That's an issue with you being a moron and joining a guild with a toxic leadership. I speak with all my raiders on at least a semi-regular basis. I know what their strengths and weaknesses are within the scope of my raid team, so I know which players to bring for which encounters. I know where loot will make the most sense for my guild as a whole to progress. Loot is not a reward in itself. Loot is a tool to reach the conclusive reward; Killing the final boss. Hamstringing the people that put tons of effort into figuring out how a guild best approaches a boss, team comp and gear optimisation is just heavy handed because people who fall prey to a toxic ML environment are too stupid to do anything but whine about it.


Grow up.

[Davryn]

If you don't like master loot, then don't raid in guilds that use master loot. Why does the choice have to be removed to satisfy immature players who aren't capable of making an adult decision?

[A Chozo]

My group raids on Heroic mode, but our defeats where never due to gear. Perosnal Loot will change nothing.

Well, except that some raiders who come only for the loot will probably leave to farm M+. But those are dispensable anyway.

Mythic Raiders are screwed tho, but they are such a minority that even if all this group quits, WoW would remain as strong as before.

[Tr1n1ty]

We decided (strawpoll) to just continue to use RC Lootcouncil, everything that can be traded will be distributed fairly like it has been for the last 3 years without having any complaint and largely the same roster, everything that can't be traded is w/e

[Deleted]

Here's why it's not that big of a deal, to me. If it's an upgrade ILVL wise, you can't trade it, period. BFA is moving toward a more "if it's a higher ILVL, it's an upgrade regardless" kind of formula. Now there might be a few pieces that aren't better solely because of ILVL (i'm looking at you rings) but at least the NECK is out of the equation since your artifact will take up that spot.

So taking all of that in, is it really that bad? The only time a loot council decision is made is if the item drops that is at a lower item level than the slot you already have so 9 times out of 10, you aren't going to need it anyway. So I foresee loot distrubtion via personal loot being MUCH easier and less of a headache than people are imagining.

It has a lot more to do with the fact that in BFA gear will go to people who you would prefer to gear up last like healer, when this happens during progress itll make you progress slower just because loot got given to the wrong person.