Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Malaky]

Could be plenty of reasons. Pain can provide clarity even without anything to do with the Force.

True, maybe he's swatting a fly...

The idea that he's getting stronger by doing so is something you are making up, with absolutely no basis in anything.

Aside of tons of materials in which pain=power for the Sith, but sure, carry on.
For one claiming to care so much about the truth you seem keen on ignoring it when it suits you.

Just for a really fucking obvious counter, why doesn't Kylo get stronger and stronger over time, as he takes more hits and damage? If you were right, he's unbeatable; any attack that hits him strengthens him, rather than weakens him. He can't ever lose, because you can only hurt him and thus make him stronger.
Obviously, that is not how anything works in Star Wars. Wounds are wounds, and don't make you stronger.

But pain does. This is Sith 1:1.

Did you ever watch or read anything about SW to begin with?
This is the most basic stuff for them and it's like you're hearing it here for the first time.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Ah sorry, I confused it for a signature.

Wait, I already responded to that. That phrase from Yoda is just standard motivational speech. "Forget about failure, think about success, believe in yourself".
It doesn't mean what you think it means...

You ignored the evidence and spouted some fanfic like you have done with every thing else in the thread that proves you wong.

[Malaky]

You ignored the evidence and spouted some fanfic like you have done with every thing else in the thread that proves you wong.

The only evidence you provided were those speeches of Yoda, and I already explained why your interpretation could be wrong.
Got anything else?

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If pain=power, why was he unable to lift the lightsaber out of the ground?

Can think of many reasons, one of which is that pain/hurting oneself isn't exactly beneficial in the long run and maybe he was nearing its limit with that sort of stuff.
The dark side is famous for immediate bursts of power but long term damage.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

True, maybe he's swatting a fly...



Aside of tons of materials in which pain=power for the Sith, but sure, carry on.
For one claiming to care so much about the truth you seem keen on ignoring it when it suits you.



But pain does. This is Sith 1:1.

Did you ever watch or read anything about SW to begin with?
This is the most basic stuff for them and it's like you're hearing it here for the first time.

god the irony. you go on about how nothing but the lucus movies matter then instantly jump to none extended material when it suits you.

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The only evidence you provided were those speeches of Yoda, and I already explained why your interpretation could be wrong.
Got anything else?

nothing else is needed your fanfic doesn't contract the actual movies.

[Malaky]

god the irony. you go on about how nothing but the lucus movies matter then instantly jump to none extended material when it suits you.

Yet I'm not. Because Vader exists. Also the movies already established that raw emotion fuels the Sith, including pain.

And besides you're the guys who keep raving about the off-movie materials. Stick to your guns.

[s_bushido]

Can think of many reasons, one of which is that pain/hurting oneself isn't exactly beneficial in the long run and maybe he was nearing its limit with that sort of stuff.
The dark side is famous for immediate bursts of power but long term damage.

If he was so weak with the force at that point that he was unable to move something as trivial as a lightsaber, then why is Rey's being able to overcome him with a surge of her own connection to the force even remarkable.

Shooting yourself in the foot a bit there...

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Yet I'm not. Because Vader exists. Also the movies already established that raw emotion fuels the Sith, including pain.

And besides, you're the guys who adhere to off-movie material. Stick to your guns.

no where in any of the movie's do they say vader runs off of pain or that sith run off of pain.

I can also stick to my guns i have the whole of the starwars canon to pull from, you on the other hand are limited only to what is shown on screen as you apparently don't count any thing else as.

[Malaky]

If he was so weak with the force at that point that he was unable to move something as trivial as a lightsaber, then why is Rey's being able to overcome him with a surge of her own connection to the force even remarkable.
Shooting yourself in the foot a bit there...

I don't see how.
Having the Force doesn't mean being always able to use the Force well. Maybe Kylo was too distressed to focus in that moment.

Again, this is Star Wars 1:1. Very basic stuff.

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no where in any of the movie's do they say vader runs off of pain or that sith run off of pain.

I can also stick to my guns i have the whole of the starwars canon to pull from, you on the other hand are limited only to what is shown on screen as you apparently don't count any thing else as.

Haha, great!

So will you admit that pain= power for the Sith, as your off-movie starwars canon dictates?
Thus proving Endus was bullshitting with that "absolutely no basis in anything" ?

Will you stick to your guns now?
Or will you betray everything and pretend that's not true?

[Donair]

Rey should've been annihilated regardless.
Any scrub should end up getting annihilated going head-to-head against a fighter with years of lightsaber dueling behind its back.
Especially if Sith, which gives them a quick and violent burst of power through the Dark Side.

But that's not... how stories are told? This isn't a Nat Geo documentary on realistic Sith vs. Jedi strengths and weaknesses. It's fake protagonists vs. fake antagonists in a galaxy far far away. Does the term suspension of disbelief mean anything to you?

If we were gunning for min/max realism, Luke would have probably been killed by Tusken Raiders for being overly curious at the earliest and absolutely blown to smithereens at the very latest above the Death Star. He certainly never would have somehow guided a couple torpedoes into a tiny weak spot on the largest super weapon his galaxy had ever known to save life as everyone knew it in a realistic scenario. Nor would he have been able to stand toe to toe against the strongest dark lord of the Sith ever to waltz through the galaxy with only some training from an old washed up muppet in a swamp, only losing one hand in the process?

I mean.. are we really trying to apply realistic science and success/failure probability scenarios to a fictional universe? They're fucking space wizards. With light sticks. And overly polite butler robots. What even is happening here? Wake the fuck up samurai. This is Star Wars. Not a PBS documentary.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Haha, great!
So, will you stick to your guns now?

Will you admit that pain= power for the Sith, as your off-movie starwars canon dictates?
Thus proving Endus was bullshitting with that "absolutely no basis in anything" ?

Or will you betray everything and pretend that's not true?

So you admit that Starwars goes beyond just the movies now? You sure did abandon that stance quickly I guess your wrong even when it comes to your own views which seems like it would be hard to do.

As far as endus goes he’s both wrong and right. Pain can be used as a source of power for a skilled dark side user but we know from TLJ that kylo after killing Han was “split to his core” instead of giving fully intro he dark side as snoke predicted. So instead of kylo being able to feed on the dark side and draw strength from the pain All he would have been doing is keeping him self up with the shock.

So yes pain can give a skilled dark side user power no it wasn’t giving kylo power as he wasn’t attuned to the light or dark side at that moment.

[Malaky]

So you admit that Starwars goes beyond just the movies now? You sure did abandon that stance quickly I guess your wrong even when it comes to your own views which seems like it would be hard to do.

Love how you make the question and then act as if you already got it.

I'm not admitting anything, I'm merely putting you through the hypocrite test.
Since you believe that SW goes beyond the movies, and that said stuff is just as valid, I wanted to see whether you would stick to your guns even when it's inconvenient.

As far as endus goes he’s both wrong and right. Pain can be used as a source of power for a skilled dark side user but we know from TLJ that kylo after killing Han was “split to his core” instead of giving fully intro he dark side as snoke predicted. So instead of kylo being able to feed on the dark side and draw strength from the pain All he would have been doing is keeping him self up with the shock.

So yes pain can give a skilled dark side user power no it wasn’t giving kylo power as he wasn’t attuned to the light or dark side at that moment.

Got any evidence for this theory about Kylo's attunement? I mean actual evidence, not your headcanon.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Love how you make the question and then act as if you already got it.

I'm not admitting anything, I'm merely putting you through the hypocrite test.
Since you believe that SW goes beyond the movies, and that said stuff is just as valid, I wanted to see whether you would stick to your guns even when it's inconvenient.

Yet you try and dodge that your using extended lore to try and argue your point as pain is never referenced as a source of power in any movie and vader is never referenced as getting power from it. there seems to be only one hypocrite here.

Got any evidence for this theory about Kylo's attunement? I mean actual evidence, not your headcanon.

Don't know why i'm bothering as you'll ignore or try to dodge it like every thing else but here.

[Malaky]

Yet you try and dodge that your using extended lore to try and argue your point as pain is never referenced as a source of power in any movie and vader is never referenced as getting power from it. there seems to be only one hypocrite here.

Putting your convictions through the test doesn't mean sharing them, young one.

As for Vader, we clearly saw him force crushing everything upon news of Padme's death, something he never did before in any of the movies.
Pain=power, be it physical or mental.

Don't know why i'm bothering as you'll ignore or try to dodge it like every thing else but here.
youtube;XDQ8QotUeA8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDQ8QotUeA8
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-BwEqilHVY...600/RCO027.jpg

....huh?
What part of this says that Kylo couldn't tap into the dark side?

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Putting your convictions through the test doesn't mean sharing them, young one.

As for Vader, we clearly saw him destroying everything upon news of Padme's death, something he never did before in any of the movies.
Pain=power, be it physical or mental.

more stuff you make up as it's never even implied that he got power from pain.

....huh?
What part of this says that Kylo couldn't tap into the dark side?

I'm just gonna quote my self as i never said he couldn't tap into the dark side i said he wasn't attuned to it but you clearly aren't reading my post.

As far as endus goes he’s both wrong and right. Pain can be used as a source of power for a skilled dark side user but we know from TLJ that kylo after killing Han was “split to his core” instead of giving fully intro he dark side as snoke predicted. So instead of kylo being able to feed on the dark side and draw strength from the pain All he would have been doing is keeping him self up with the shock.

So yes pain can give a skilled dark side user power no it wasn’t giving kylo power as he wasn’t attuned to the light or dark side at that moment.

[Malaky]

more stuff you make up as it's never even implied that he got power from pain.

I literally just told you why it's implied.

I'm just gonna quote my self as i never said he couldn't tap into the dark side i said he wasn't attuned to it but you clearly aren't reading my post.

Okay, so he's not "attuned" to the dark side but that doesn't mean he couldn't tap into it. Your words, whatever this means.

Same question: what tells you he wasn't tapping into it by hitting himself in the wound, then?
None of the sources you brought, which is actually the same in two different mediums, says he couldn't there.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I literally just told you why it's implied.

no you made up that he got strength from the pain because he was lashing all the movie actually show's is the lashing out not that he was doing it with any more power then he had before and not that he got that power from pain.

Okay, so he's not attuned to the dark side but that doesn't mean he couldn't tap into it.
Same question: what tells you he wasn't tapping into it by hitting himself in the wound?
None of the sources you brought, which is actually the same thing in two different mediums, says he couldn't there.

we know he wasn't taping into it because he doesn't even have enough control over the force to pull a saber something that an injured luke was able to do. you'd have to be arguing that he didn't have enough control of the force to do a basic thing like pull a sable but also had enough control to do something advanced as feeding off of pain. not even you could be that dishonest/stupid could you?

[Malaky]

no you made up that he got strength from the pain because he was lashing all the movie actually show's is the lashing out not that he was doing it with any more power then he had before.

He's performing a "mass choke" crushing everything around him right after the news of Padme's death, a force stunt he never did before.
Palpatine even grins at this new display of power.
That's obviously pain at the source, so I'm not even sure what mirror you're trying to climb here.

we know he wasn't taping into it because he doesn't even have enough control over the force to pull a saber something that an injured luke was able to do. you'd have to be arguing that didn't have enough control of the force to do a basic thing like pull a sable but also had enough control to do something advanced as feeding off of pain.

This seems pure headcanon.
The Sith are big on giving in to anger or pain or whatever and getting your burst of dark side fueled power....

Not sure where this whole "advanced requirement" for the thing to work comes from, it's actually entry-level stuff.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

He's performing a "mass choke" crushing everything around him right after the news of Padme's death, a force stunt he never did before.
Palpatine even grins at this new display of power.
That's obviously pain at the source, so I'm not even sure what mirror you're trying to climb here.

again if you are going off only the movie's then you are just making this up as pain is never once referenced as a source of power for sith. You can't say that the extended lore doesn't count then try and hide behind it and pretend that it's part of the movie's when its not.

This seems pure headcanon.
The Sith are big on giving in to anger or pain or whatever and getting your burst of dark side fueled power....

Not sure where this whole "advanced requirement" for the thing to work comes from, it's actually entry-level stuff.

so you actually are that dishonest/stupid i guess. I've given you the source of his poor grip of on the force, I've given you him not being able to do basic stuff and why he wouldn't be able to do harder darkside ability's. If all you have is "your wrong because of my fanfic" then you go with that i guess.

[Tabrotar]

God how much of these disney appologists are getting riled up by people not liking and explaining the bad stuff in the disney made sw shit?

I really hope you all get paid for sniffing disneys farts, giving you´re soo deep into disneys ass that you basically can start eating their shit for them ffs.

Pathetic.

Flaming isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Zaktar]

God how much of these disney appologists are getting riled up by people not liking and explaining the bad stuff in the disney made sw shit?

I really hope you all get paid for sniffing disneys farts, giving you´re soo deep into disneys ass that you basically can start eating their shit for them ffs.

Pathetic.

Lol at the notion that "apologists" are riled up when you make a post this bitter and angry.