Star Wars Episode IX: The Rise of Skywalker

[Yoshingo]

Do you have anything to contribute to the conversation other than blatant strawmans?

I mean I've contributed several posts but feel free to ignore them because you're upset I pointed out how fucking ridiculous people are being over this movie.

Also its not a strawman to quote myself saying 'a group of people are claiming X' and then quote when someone says X less than 30 minutes later.

- - - Updated - - -

Did you watch Return of the Jedi? He taunted Luke to kill him or kill Vader.

Also, I don't think that is what Palpatine really wanted. I think he wanted what happened in the movie.

Yeah if Palpatine's entire thing about a Force Dyad was his real end game, it seemed like he was just egging her on until Kylo showed up so he could have both of them together. That or he was just playing out his xanatos gambit in which he wins regardless of what happens. He dies and his spirit inhabits Rey or Rey fights him off and then Kylo shows up and he life drains them both.

[Radeghost]

Took 8 posts.

Oh, I'm sorry for acknowledging the fact that Rey is Mary Sue because of failed women empowerement (women don't need fake and pathetic 'muh empowerement', women had and still have great roles - and white dudes casting them as invincible characters, emphasizing the fact "look guise wyhmyn power" is just pathetic, sexist and inappropriate).

Attempting to derail thread with a forbidden topic isn't allowed. Infracted.

[Yoshingo]

Oh, I'm sorry for acknowledging the fact that Rey is Mary Sue because of failed women empowerement (women don't need fake and pathetic 'muh empowerement', women had and still have great roles - and white dudes casting them as invincible characters, emphasizing the fact "look guise wyhmyn power" is just pathetic, sexist and inappropriate).

This whole post is just...oof.

[Darththeo]

Oh, I'm sorry for acknowledging the fact that Rey is Mary Sue because of failed women empowerement (women don't need fake and pathetic 'muh empowerement', women had and still have great roles - and white dudes casting them as invincible characters, emphasizing the fact "look guise wyhmyn power" is just pathetic, sexist and inappropriate).

That's not what a Mary Sue is.

[Radeghost]

This whole post is just...oof.

Great response, hell of a discussion.

[Yoshingo]

Great response, hell of a discussion.

What discussion is there to be had with someone who barfs out nonsense straight from /pol/. I wasn't trying to have a discussion with you, I was pointing out that your commentary about the movie is in total bad faith and should be ignored because you directly insert complete unrelated nonsense into the discussion, poisoning the well.

[Radeghost]

That's not what a Mary Sue is.

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Typically, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment.[1] They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience,[2] and usually are able through some means to upstage the protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero.



This is literal description of Rey in the new trilogy.

[Darththeo]

A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Typically, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment.[1] They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience,[2] and usually are able through some means to upstage the protagonist of an established fictional setting, such as by saving the hero.



This is literal description of Rey in the new trilogy.

Also, Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT if you push that definition as far as you are for Rey.

[Radeghost]

What discussion is there to be had with someone who barfs out nonsense straight from /pol/.

What exactly is that nonsense?

- - - Updated - - -

Also, Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT if you push that definition as far as you are for Rey.

Luke failed a lot and Anakin was being supervised by the Jedi.

[Yoshingo]

Also, Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT if you push that definition as far as you are for Rey.

I think there are hints of Mary Sueisms of Rey in the first movie but after that its pretty much gone. Hell in TRoS she has no idea wtf she's doing and is just wandering around trying to find answers.

She fucks up and kills a bunch of people on that prison ship. She only "beats" Kylo Ren on the Death Star ruins because Leia dies to reach out to him through the Force and it distracts him. He clearly had the upperhand that entire fight. Luke has to literally tell her to go face Palpatine when she wants to hide out on his island, the complete wrong decision to make. She has to be reminded to not submit to Palpatine's plot by a legion of Jedi and then has to be resurrected by Kylo Ren at the cost of his own life.

The amount of not-Mary Sue things that happen to Rey in this movie along offsets what few there were in The Force Awakens. Her level of Mary Sueism is almost the inverse of Luke's, where by the time RotJ happens he's plot armoring his way through the entire story.

[BeepBoo]

Also, Rey isn't a Mary Sue. Mary Sue =/= poorly written character. She has some Mary Sue traits, but Anakin has more in the Prequels. Even Luke had some.

You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

[Yoshingo]

What exactly is that nonsense?

Your entire post my guy.

[Radeghost]

She has to be reminded to not submit to Palpatine's plot by a legion of Jedi and then has to be resurrected by Kylo Ren at the cost of his own life

Idk, from what I understood, she was pretty torn apart, her legacy somehow dragged her a bit to the dark side, she wanted to have revenge, she didn't want to be a sith empress, but Palpatine, the best manipulator in the galaxy (/s), told her that he planned her to kill him, so he can 'merge' with her soul and she will become everything she hates.

- - - Updated - - -

Your entire post my guy.

So, nothing. Sexist much?


They had everything on their to-do list for SW:TROS (women empowerement, lgbt representation, fat representation, minority representation) but they forgot about plot but whatever

[Darththeo]

What exactly is that nonsense?

- - - Updated - - -



Luke failed a lot and Anakin was being supervised by the Jedi.

And Rey failed a lot. Did you forget Rey was captured in the TFA and failed on her first attempt of a mind trick? While Luke managed to sneak around on the Death Star before Vader even informed anyone that Obi-wan was on the station? Or that Anakin is the "only" human that can pilot podracers and flew a fighter he was NEVER in with an astromech he knew for days better than military trained pilots WITH NO FORMAL Jedi training?

Again, if you treated Rey the same way as Anakin and Luke ... you either A) wouldn't like Star Wars or B) wouldn't call her a Mary Sue.

[Relapses]

I mean I've contributed several posts but feel free to ignore them because you're upset I pointed out how fucking ridiculous people are being over this movie.

Also its not a strawman to quote myself saying 'a group of people are claiming X' and then quote when someone says X less than 30 minutes later.

You accused me of saying that TLJ was some kind of intellectual masterpiece, completely ignored me when I asked you to clarify yourself then quoted some dude's valid opinion like making an observation about SJWs is going to do much of anything but bring pointless political overtones into the discussion. I don't necessarily agree with that dude but it's ironic that you accuse people of being "bad faith actors" then set shit up to do exactly what you're accusing other people of doing.

[Yoshingo]

Idk, from what I understood, she was pretty torn apart, her legacy somehow dragged her a bit to the dark side, she wanted to have revenge, she didn't want to be a sith empress, but Palpatine, the best manipulator in the galaxy (/s), told her that he planned her to kill him, so he can 'merge' with her soul and she will become everything she hates.

Palpatine flatout explaining what he wants Rey to do is exactly what he does to Luke and nobody says a word about it.

But suddenly its an issue when he does it with Rey? Hmmm I wonder why.

Palpatine's entire weakness has been his self-assuredness, its why he stupidly kept trying to just assume what he planned out will happen. Because it worked with Anakin. But then Luke and Rey resisted and proved him wrong. Its the exact same scene just with a slightly different endgame in RotJ, namely he just doesn't say he's going to possess Luke when he gets killed.

ITS THE SAME SCENE LOL

quoted some dude's valid opinion like making an observation about SJWs is going to do much of anything but bring pointless political overtones into the discussion

His valid opinion huh? Just whining about "muh sjws ruin star wars" is now a valid legitimate opinion?

Okay lol

Again its not acting in bad faith to quote when someone does the exact thing I say people have been doing to poison the well. But keep repeating yourself maybe you'll convince yourself it was.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Also, Luke in the OT and Anakin in the PT if you push that definition as far as you are for Rey.

Luke lost almost every single battle in the Original Trilogy.

• Gets beaten up by Tusken Raiders, saved by Obi-Wan

• Returns to his home too late to save his Aunt and Uncle.

• Nearly gets killed by an angry alien in the catina, saved by Obi-Wan

• Nearly gets crushed in a trash compactor, saved by R2D2

• Nearly caught by Darth Vader, saved by Obi-Wan providing a distraction

• Nearly killed by Darth Vader before he could reach the end of the trench, saved by Han and Chewie

• Beaten up by a Wampa and nearly eaten. Stumbles out into the cold and nearly dies, saved by Han.

• Gets shot out of the sky and loses his copilot.

• Fights Darth Vader and gets his arm chopped off.

• Falls to his death, saved by Chewie/Leia/Lando

• Botches his rescue attempt of Han, his friends have to take a risk to salvage his operation and save him

• Is unable to defeat the Emperor, has to be saved by Vader sacrificing himself.

[Radeghost]

But suddenly its an issue when he does it with Rey? Hmmm I wonder why.

Nah, I'm not Nazi sexist incel, I'm just aware of shit writing - because as you mentioned above, he tries the same with Luke. And fails. Then he tries it again - like what? It's not Palpatine being full of himself, it's bad writing

[Yoshingo]

Nah, I'm not Nazi sexist incel, I'm just aware of shit writing - because as you mentioned above, he tries the same with Luke. And fails. Then he tries it again - like what? It's not Palpatine being full of himself, it's bad writing

Or...it's Palpatine being full of himself. Which is what the downfall of his character always was. You know, consistency with an established character trait from the other movies? The exact opposite of 'bad writing.'

[Darththeo]

You're gonna have to explain this one to me.

Luke:
1) Trusted by every "Hero" he meets in the OT. Obi-wan is explained, but Han trusts him enough to follow for the chance of money? Yeah, that seems pretty weird.
2) Luke is given one of the few fighters that the Rebellion had over pilots who flown with the Rebellion for years because why? Leia said so?
3) Luke manages to outfly trained Imperial pilots in a ship he never had been in before. (Yes, I know it is explained that the X-Wing is similar to his skyhopper, but that is never stated in the movie).

Anakin:
1) The ONLY human that can operate a pod racer.
2) Has a connection to the Force greater than any known Jedi.
3) Consider the chosen one by a Jedi master.
4) Flies a starfighter he had never been in before at least to the same level as trained pilots and some how blunders his way into destroying the Droid control ship.
5) Has so many main characters trust him so easily that even the Jedi Council (the only real negative) which is more "No, we can't train him" not "We don't like him."

Seriously, Rey is nothing really knew is Star Wars ... it is just because she flew the Falcon and not just some random ship and she lived a lightsaber duel and won it with no formal training. Ignoring, Kylo had no desire to kill her and was injured and she was losing that fight until Kylo told her he could teach her the ways of the Force and she tapped into the force. Luke using the Force to aim/guide a proton torpedo totally fine ... Rey using the Force to get a couple of blows on someone with a melee weapon when she uses a melee weapon ... totally unacceptable.